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Post Reply EU and Middle East Territories for Kill la Kill
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Posted 9/23/13 , edited 9/23/13

CyanSwan wrote: I don't understand the point of the region restriction. For a physical release I understand it at least makes products more marketable to their regions due to the different economic rates of the counties but what purpose does it serve on a digital streaming site?

Rights is rights. Remember that the large majority of international license income still comes from home video releases, so if the home video distributor says they want exclusive streaming rights, and the streaming site says they want streaming rights, the Japanese licensor looks at the available royalty revenue and goes with the home video distributor.

More than a third of the simulcasts on Crunchyroll are sublicenses from companies like Sentai, Aniplex of America and NIS America, and for those, Crunchyroll is limited to the regions that the main licenser picked up when they signed their deal in Japan.

Four years ago, all of those sub-licenses were North America only, but luckily for Crunchyroll, they have been able to talk some home video distributors in picking up broader rights than the US, which is why there are the Sentai sublicenses to North America, UK, Ireland, Scandinavia, South Africa, Australia and New Zealand.

If Crunchyroll could tell Sentai what to do, all of those would be worldwide outside Japan or worldwide outside Asia, but it takes time and the promise of growing revenues to get the companies in Japan to change their ways and to get the home video distributors to pick up broader regions so that Crunchyroll can sub-license broader regions.

And sometimes Crunchyroll takes take a step forward and a step back at the same time ~ if Aniplex of America is picking up North and South America and South Africa streaming rights, that is good news for South America and bad news for the UK, since Aniplex of America was picking up UK&Eire before.


This was the same reason I cut my CR membership before. The only two shows I wanted to watch this season are both unavailable in my region. I hope legal streaming becomes more dominant, and I don't mean legal streaming for just the US. You guys have Funimation, Neon Alley, Hulu, Nick and 100% of shows on Crunchyroll and Daisuki. God damn it.

If I only wanted to watch two shows, I doubt I would subscribe, even if I could see them ~ for only one or two shows, I'd put up with the ads.


mendo_shutaro wrote: The evidence I have that CR aren't trying is by the large number of shows which aren't available in the UK.


Except that is quite obviously untrue. How many new simulcasts per season over the past year have gone to the UK and how many have been blocked? Let's look back over the past two years (".1" are shorties, 1 are regular series) "UK" of "total", %

Summer 2013: 20.3 of 22.3, 91%
Spring 2013: 16.2 of 20.2, 80% ~ all four blocked by Anime-on-Demand
Winter 2013: 14.6 of 18.6, 78%~ three of four blocked by Anime-on-Demand
Fall 2012: 11.3 of 14.3, 79% ~ one blocked by Anime-on-Demand
Summer 2012: 17.1 of 19.1, 90%
Spring 2012: 17.1 of 20.2, 85%
Winter 2012: 7.2 of 11.2, 64%
Fall 2012: 9 of 13, 69%


Of course if they were transparent about it, and told their paying customers why they haven't bothered to license things in Europe, it would at least, be a start. As it is all we get is the VERY familiar error message telling paying customers that they live in the wrong continent.

How can they get over 4/5 of their new simulcasts to the UK without "bothering to license" them to the UK? The UK is not consistently near the top of the list in international licenses, in the face of head to head competition, without Crunchyroll "trying". It doesn't happen by accident.


Your claim of 90% of shows being available in the UK doesn't tally with my experience. I run into the 'not available in your region' error a LOT. I'd be interested to know what the actual figure is, but based purely upon my experience, I'd say the actual number is closer to 50%.

Unless you are counting catalog titles, you are way off, but it would be absurd to count catalog titles and then also think there is something that Crunchyroll can do on its own to expand the region. Obviously just like Madman blocking catalog titles to Australia, the UK licensors would have to be willing to sign a package deal with Crunchyroll for the series they have rights to. Crunchyroll obviously can't force them to sign that package deal.


The problem I see with a large player like CR dabbling in the international market is this - their presence puts off others from getting into the EU market. Can you imagine trying to drum up investment for a new streaming company or venture, only to be met with "but what if CR buys shows X, Y, and Z, then we won't be able to compete. It's not worth the risk".

Actually we know that's false, because Anime-On-Demand blocked Crunchyroll all the time. Indeed, a majority of new simulcasts that Crunchyroll did not get to the UK in the last year have been because Anime-On-Demand outbid Crunchyroll.

The problem is that Anime-on-Demand couldn't make any money diverting series from Crunchyroll onto their site and charging a higher price for less anime.

And that is what your free-standing site has to face: their revenue has to cover contracting costs from a smaller market, so has to charge a higher subscription fee per series streamed to the UK.


Of course in reality CR probably won't license shows X, Y, or Z, but the fear of them throwing their weight around must be there.

But they get the UK license for every series where the UK license is available to them, so there is no spare "weight" to throw around.


They need to either get better, or get out, and leave the EU to someone else. At this point, I'd sooner it was the latter.

They need to get better than your fantasy 50% of new simulcasts? They are already better than that and have been for over three years.
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Posted 9/23/13
Okay this article is so failing. Here are a few titles that are missing to watch out for:

Copperon
Kara no Kyoukai: Mirai Fukuin
Strike the Blood
Ansatsu Kyoushitsu
Hajime no Ippo: The Fighting! - Rising
Sekai de Ichiban Tsuyoku Naritai!
Yozakura Quartet: Hana no Uta
Little Busters! Refrain
Tokyo Ravens
BlazBlue: Alter Memory
Machine-Doll wa Kizutsukanai

Seriously. Look at this huge list!
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Posted 9/24/13

Haiyami wrote:

Okay this article is so failing. Here are a few titles that are missing to watch out for:

Copperon
Kara no Kyoukai: Mirai Fukuin
Strike the Blood
Ansatsu Kyoushitsu
Hajime no Ippo: The Fighting! - Rising
Sekai de Ichiban Tsuyoku Naritai!
Yozakura Quartet: Hana no Uta
Little Busters! Refrain
Tokyo Ravens
BlazBlue: Alter Memory
Machine-Doll wa Kizutsukanai

Seriously. Look at this huge list!


Kara no Kyoukai is a Movie series, and since CR usually doesn't stream movies that is a long shot at best. Aniplex USA would have to provide that to CR.

I have no idea what Ansatsu Kyoushitsu is. An OVA?

As to the rest, this is very very early in the simulcast announcement season, as the vast majority of new anime doesn't premiere for least another week(and the bulk is a week and half to 2 weeks away) and there has only been 1 full-length non-children's anime that has premiered(Diabolik Lovers) which already has been announced. The few others are children's anime that aren't going to get a simulcast and 1 5-minute short anime series that CR could easily announce this week or next week. Be patient, Crunchyroll has at least 6 more simulcasts that we know of to announce and likely much more TBA boxes to come.

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Posted 9/24/13 , edited 9/25/13

Haiyami wrote: Okay this article is so failing. ... Seriously. Look at this huge list!

"This article" is an announcement of three titles that Aniplex of America announced the day before. Because AoA announced that they were streaming on four sites, including Crunchyroll, Crunchyroll made their own announcement of these series.

As pistolsaf explains, regular announcement season hasn't started yet. This is not a complete list of series streaming this fall, its a complete list of series sub-licensed from Aniplex of America. AoA normally streams two to four series on Crunchyroll, and based on this news, they are going to continue doing that.

Note: Daisuki has also released details on Kill la Kill. At Daisuki, it :

will be available world wide (except the following regions: Australia, New Zealand, UK, Ireland, some Asian areas, France and some French-speaking areas)


We know that the Australia/NZ exclusion is because Madman will be simulcasting the series.

In France, kzplay[/link and Crunchyroll's Genzai.fr have just joined forces to roll out a combined site, ADN: Anime Digital Network, and since kzplay has typically insisted on exclusive streaming in France, French Territories, Belgium & Switzerland, and Magi2 is the first simulcast announced in ADN's roll-out, it seems likely the France lock-out is due to ADN picking it up.

And we know that in some Asian countries, the primary means of actually making money from anime is by streaming on cell-phones, with the anime royalties rolled into the that subscription option for the cellphone, so that is likely to be the cut-out for "some Asian areas".

So the UK/Eire exclusion is likely to be a UK home video distributor in negotiations to pick up the series.
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Posted 9/25/13
Are you guys picking up Coppelion, Kyoukai no Kanata, Nagi no Asakura, Tokyo Ravens, and/or Samurai Flamenco?
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Posted 9/25/13 , edited 9/25/13

HimuraKenshin_Battosai wrote:

Are you guys picking up Coppelion, Kyoukai no Kanata, Nagi no Asakura, Tokyo Ravens, and/or Samurai Flamenco?


Crunchyroll will wait until they're ready to announce certain shows so it's unknown which of those will be on Crunchyroll, however these are my educated guesses

Samurai Flamenco is very likely given that Aniplex USA has licensed that but since that wouldn't stream here until October 10th, there is a lot of time for an announcement.

As to the others, Coppelion is being simulcasted by Animax Asia so it's very likely that someone will simulcast that for other areas of the world. I have a sneaking suspicion that Viz is going nab that though since circumstances seem very close to when they got K. Same studio, same distributor(Starchild Records), K was also simulcast by Animax Asia.

Kyoukai no Kanata is TBS so that's likely too. That premieres in about a week so maybe that could get an announcement this week or next week.

I am not 100% certain on the distributors for the other two so I couldn't give you the odds on those.

EDIT: If Crunchyroll gets Coppelion , they won't be streaming it to Australia and New Zealand since Madman Entertainment will be simulcasting that for AU/NZ.
http://www.madman.com.au/news/madman-acquires-coppellion-series-to-premiere-online-%E2%80%98day-date%E2%80%99-with-japan/
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Posted 9/25/13
nice
i hope u guys will take KnB, golden time, LB and Coppelion as well
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Posted 9/25/13

agila61 wrote:
So the UK/Eire exclusion is likely to be a UK home video distributor in negotiations to pick up the series.


Actually little hope at the moment for the UK as we have one streaming site which is Anime on Demand and they've been silent since the spring season ended with no word from them or anything...but it is a bit suspicious that all english streaming for Kill la Kill so far have gone out of their way to not include UK and Ireland so maybe something is going on...or maybe Aniplex of America is hell bent on screwing the UK over, we don't know but it looks like we'll just have to wait and hope for the best. Nothing more than to see how this plays out really. =/
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Posted 9/25/13

agila61 wrote:


CyanSwan wrote: I don't understand the point of the region restriction. For a physical release I understand it at least makes products more marketable to their regions due to the different economic rates of the counties but what purpose does it serve on a digital streaming site?

Rights is rights. Remember that the large majority of international license income still comes from home video releases, so if the home video distributor says they want exclusive streaming rights, and the streaming site says they want streaming rights, the Japanese licensor looks at the available royalty revenue and goes with the home video distributor.

More than a third of the simulcasts on Crunchyroll are sublicenses from companies like Sentai, Aniplex of America and NIS America, and for those, Crunchyroll is limited to the regions that the main licenser picked up when they signed their deal in Japan.

Four years ago, all of those sub-licenses were North America only, but luckily for Crunchyroll, they have been able to talk some home video distributors in picking up broader rights than the US, which is why there are the Sentai sublicenses to North America, UK, Ireland, Scandinavia, South Africa, Australia and New Zealand.

If Crunchyroll could tell Sentai what to do, all of those would be worldwide outside Japan or worldwide outside Asia, but it takes time and the promise of growing revenues to get the companies in Japan to change their ways and to get the home video distributors to pick up broader regions so that Crunchyroll can sub-license broader regions.

And sometimes Crunchyroll takes take a step forward and a step back at the same time ~ if Aniplex of America is picking up North and South America and South Africa streaming rights, that is good news for South America and bad news for the UK, since Aniplex of America was picking up UK&Eire before.


This was the same reason I cut my CR membership before. The only two shows I wanted to watch this season are both unavailable in my region. I hope legal streaming becomes more dominant, and I don't mean legal streaming for just the US. You guys have Funimation, Neon Alley, Hulu, Nick and 100% of shows on Crunchyroll and Daisuki. God damn it.

If I only wanted to watch two shows, I doubt I would subscribe, even if I could see them ~ for only one or two shows, I'd put up with the ads.


mendo_shutaro wrote: The evidence I have that CR aren't trying is by the large number of shows which aren't available in the UK.


Except that is quite obviously untrue. How many new simulcasts per season over the past year have gone to the UK and how many have been blocked? Let's look back over the past two years (".1" are shorties, 1 are regular series) "UK" of "total", %

Summer 2013: 20.3 of 22.3, 91%
Spring 2013: 16.2 of 20.2, 80% ~ all four blocked by Anime-on-Demand
Winter 2013: 14.6 of 18.6, 78%~ three of four blocked by Anime-on-Demand
Fall 2012: 11.3 of 14.3, 79% ~ one blocked by Anime-on-Demand
Summer 2012: 17.1 of 19.1, 90%
Spring 2012: 17.1 of 20.2, 85%
Winter 2012: 7.2 of 11.2, 64%
Fall 2012: 9 of 13, 69%


Of course if they were transparent about it, and told their paying customers why they haven't bothered to license things in Europe, it would at least, be a start. As it is all we get is the VERY familiar error message telling paying customers that they live in the wrong continent.

How can they get over 4/5 of their new simulcasts to the UK without "bothering to license" them to the UK? The UK is not consistently near the top of the list in international licenses, in the face of head to head competition, without Crunchyroll "trying". It doesn't happen by accident.


Your claim of 90% of shows being available in the UK doesn't tally with my experience. I run into the 'not available in your region' error a LOT. I'd be interested to know what the actual figure is, but based purely upon my experience, I'd say the actual number is closer to 50%.

Unless you are counting catalog titles, you are way off, but it would be absurd to count catalog titles and then also think there is something that Crunchyroll can do on its own to expand the region. Obviously just like Madman blocking catalog titles to Australia, the UK licensors would have to be willing to sign a package deal with Crunchyroll for the series they have rights to. Crunchyroll obviously can't force them to sign that package deal.


The problem I see with a large player like CR dabbling in the international market is this - their presence puts off others from getting into the EU market. Can you imagine trying to drum up investment for a new streaming company or venture, only to be met with "but what if CR buys shows X, Y, and Z, then we won't be able to compete. It's not worth the risk".

Actually we know that's false, because Anime-On-Demand blocked Crunchyroll all the time. Indeed, a majority of new simulcasts that Crunchyroll did not get to the UK in the last year have been because Anime-On-Demand outbid Crunchyroll.

The problem is that Anime-on-Demand couldn't make any money diverting series from Crunchyroll onto their site and charging a higher price for less anime.

And that is what your free-standing site has to face: their revenue has to cover contracting costs from a smaller market, so has to charge a higher subscription fee per series streamed to the UK.


Of course in reality CR probably won't license shows X, Y, or Z, but the fear of them throwing their weight around must be there.

But they get the UK license for every series where the UK license is available to them, so there is no spare "weight" to throw around.


They need to either get better, or get out, and leave the EU to someone else. At this point, I'd sooner it was the latter.

They need to get better than your fantasy 50% of new simulcasts? They are already better than that and have been for over three years.


You really rally to CR's defence don't you. It's impressive, I guess.

Content is content, and I see the "not available in your region" error as much as I see videos which actually work. I assume many must be catalogue titles based on what you have said, but to be frank, I don't care and shouldn't have to care. It's just content, and it should just work. Or the UK subs should be reduced.

Obviously this debate is going nowhere. You think CR are doing an amazing, barnstorming job in the UK. Sadly UK CR subscribers, disagree, or at least the ones on the forums do. We think they're lazy, complacent, and pig headed.

As for AnimeOnDemand, I'm not even sure they still exist. Their site is still up, but they've been quiet for many months now.

Not to worry, I believe there are still plenty of fansub groups around.
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Posted 9/25/13
News update from Daisuki, guys.
With the exception of Australia, New Zealand, UK, Ireland, some Asian areas, France and some French-speaking areas, Daisuki is gonna stream Kill la Kill worldwide. https://www.daisuki.net/topics/view/10122
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I wonder when Crunchyroll will announce more simulcasts? We're getting to be about less than a week away from when the season starts. I figured Crunchyroll would start announcing either today or tomorrow...
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Posted 9/25/13
Haha! Daisuki did it! Kill la Kill almost worldwide and in 5 languages. This puts Crunchyroll's region restrictions to shame.

I'll be watching it.
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Posted 9/25/13

Scottzor wrote: Actually little hope at the moment for the UK as we have one streaming site which is Anime on Demand and they've been silent since the spring season ended with no word from them or anything.

Quite. When I say it seems likely that a UK home video distributor is in negotiations for the rights (or, I guess, has signed a contract but has not yet announced anything) ...

... there's no indication that it means any simulcast streaming at all.

I guess there could be something going on setting up a new streaming option in the UK, but things have been too quiet to have substantial hope of that.

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Posted 9/25/13
So I will watch Kill on daisuki. Good for their site, bad for CR.
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Posted 9/25/13

krisoyo wrote:

News update from Daisuki, guys.
With the exception of Australia, New Zealand, UK, Ireland, some Asian areas, France and some French-speaking areas, Daisuki is gonna stream Kill la Kill worldwide. https://www.daisuki.net/topics/view/10122


What the flying fuck. Did Queen Elizabeth II in person decree that no anime from Trigger has to be streamed in her territories? Is this a curse or what?

You had ONE JOB, Crunchyroll.
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