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Post Reply Living Under a Boulder? Reasons to Watch Attack on Titan.
eos 
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I just don't like when shows get overhyped. Not saying "Shingeki no Kyojin" is bad, but the fanbase personally is very annoying to me.
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Vin_Howard wrote:


vglan-funman wrote:


Vin_Howard wrote:



You put it perfectly. Eren's "death" didn't advance the series in any shape or way. (Him gaining his titan powers are separate from his "death" from a writing construction standpoint)

Also, what I mean by shounen battle manga philosophy:

1. Have the main cast face an enemy that is insanely op compared to them (after barely defeating a new enemy, it is always revealed that this new enemy is just the weakest of his group, and that the others are 10x stronger)

2. SHOUT FOR THE SAKE OF SHOUTING

3. Add as much of useless lines and scenes. While a major rule of writing is only to include what is absolutely necessary for the story, here toy should break that rule and pad your story as much as possible

4. Give your character some op power to fight his enemies, but make it difficult to control; this will allow you to pad your story with a a bunch of drama about the "uncertainty" of the power, while making sure it always works out in the end

5. Add as much drama and suspense as possible. It doesn't matter if it makes your story shallow, this is a MUST. I cannot stress how vitally important this is, as this is the very essence of a popular shonen series!

----

On a side note, as the series is coming to a close soon, I have decided to start examining the "Writer's spirit." What I mean by this is that I examining the story, the various elements, the charters, how the story was constructed, I try to read the soul that the writer breaths into his story (even the worst of stories can have a strong "soul").

While I haven't finished yet (it involves a LOT of thinking), I have discovered something interesting. I think the writer was honestly trying to construct a really well made world. You can really see the amount of detail given to the initial story. But probably due to lack of skill, the writer reverted to the shallow shounen philosophy when it came to writing the meat of the story. In the end, AoT might have been a really great epic, something along the lines of Fate/Zero, but something that inevitably feel into mediocrity due to the writer's lack of skill.


>Pretty sure Eren getting eaten by the Titan, therefore awakening his Titan powers is advancing the series dude. They're interconnected; you can't have one without mentioning the other.

>Your shonen points:
1. This is a point in a lot of manga, not only shonen, but seinen, shojo, slice of life etc. It's all about the characters meeting new obstacles and being able to overcome said obstacles. Don't really see how this is a flaw...at all...

2. I would understand this point if not for the fact that AoT's story calls for it on many occasions, whether rallying the troops or a character giving himself the courage to go on in the midst of all the adversity.

3. And your points fail again. Most of the lines in the series either serve to give us background on the character's, highlight some of the current plot points, or tell us of future plot points to come. Unless you can actually find evidence of this (you've really struggled in this department bruh), then fail. Again.

4. Again, how is this point exactly bad? If Eren knew how to control his powers, even more haters and detractors would arrive and claim that "Eren is OP" and other nonsense like that. It's a no win situation apparently, so why not go with the path that'll dish out the least amount of damage (if the damage is even existent in the first damned place).

5. Since when does including drama and suspense in a series = flaw? Especially when one of the genres of the series is "Drama". Cmon son.

Thanks for proving that, again, most AoT haters and their arguments have no pounds, kilos, weight whatsoever.



1. I mean op super villain that the heroes have no way of defeating, but still always beat in the end, usually with surprising ease (oh look, the best of the best just got whipped out by the Titans; we have no way of winning; few episodes later: yay, we retook the town, we only lost some faceless number that was just thrown out there with no real consideration; oh look, that female titan just murder the VERY VERY best like it was the easiest thing; next episode: look at the rookie really messing with that same female Titan like it was the easiest thing in the world, and lets watch as the other guy solo r*pes her with moves impossible in reality)

2. Well I guess I will give you this point. But I still feel it is being used more than justifiable.

3. As a matter of fact: https://plus.google.com/113581974701996236770/posts/KJttaZ3EMSK

4. You fail to see my point. I am saying the power itself is a shounen battle manga tactic.

5. "Drama is life with the dull bits cut out" - Alfred Hitchcock. There is both good drama and bad drama. Good drama is used to create a deep, riveting, relatable story. Bad drama, the type I am talking about, is used only for the sake of engaging the audience's attention. It is shallow, and serves no benefit except for attracting a casual crowd that either doesn't care or doesn't know what a good story is, aka it is great for making a cash cow but at the same time undermines the quality of the writing.

PS, can you PLEASE actually think about what I am typing instead of just skimming over it and then thinking of what you think is a smart comeback. Yes, if we were writing an outline of the plot of AoT, Eren's death and him gaining his power have a lot to do with each other. But I am *NOT* talking about a plot outline, I am talking about the various elements of the story and how they influence the meat of the story. If you cannot comprehend this simple difference, then it will be impossible for me to show what is wrong with AoT in the same way that it would be impossible to show that 2+ does not equal 3 to someone who doesn't understand matchamatics.


lol i was actually skimming over what you were writing because it was so boring and wordy
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Posted 9/21/13

Vin_Howard wrote:


vglan-funman wrote:


Vin_Howard wrote:



You put it perfectly. Eren's "death" didn't advance the series in any shape or way. (Him gaining his titan powers are separate from his "death" from a writing construction standpoint)

Also, what I mean by shounen battle manga philosophy:

1. Have the main cast face an enemy that is insanely op compared to them (after barely defeating a new enemy, it is always revealed that this new enemy is just the weakest of his group, and that the others are 10x stronger)

2. SHOUT FOR THE SAKE OF SHOUTING

3. Add as much of useless lines and scenes. While a major rule of writing is only to include what is absolutely necessary for the story, here toy should break that rule and pad your story as much as possible

4. Give your character some op power to fight his enemies, but make it difficult to control; this will allow you to pad your story with a a bunch of drama about the "uncertainty" of the power, while making sure it always works out in the end

5. Add as much drama and suspense as possible. It doesn't matter if it makes your story shallow, this is a MUST. I cannot stress how vitally important this is, as this is the very essence of a popular shonen series!

----

On a side note, as the series is coming to a close soon, I have decided to start examining the "Writer's spirit." What I mean by this is that I examining the story, the various elements, the charters, how the story was constructed, I try to read the soul that the writer breaths into his story (even the worst of stories can have a strong "soul").

While I haven't finished yet (it involves a LOT of thinking), I have discovered something interesting. I think the writer was honestly trying to construct a really well made world. You can really see the amount of detail given to the initial story. But probably due to lack of skill, the writer reverted to the shallow shounen philosophy when it came to writing the meat of the story. In the end, AoT might have been a really great epic, something along the lines of Fate/Zero, but something that inevitably feel into mediocrity due to the writer's lack of skill.


>Pretty sure Eren getting eaten by the Titan, therefore awakening his Titan powers is advancing the series dude. They're interconnected; you can't have one without mentioning the other.

>Your shonen points:
1. This is a point in a lot of manga, not only shonen, but seinen, shojo, slice of life etc. It's all about the characters meeting new obstacles and being able to overcome said obstacles. Don't really see how this is a flaw...at all...

2. I would understand this point if not for the fact that AoT's story calls for it on many occasions, whether rallying the troops or a character giving himself the courage to go on in the midst of all the adversity.

3. And your points fail again. Most of the lines in the series either serve to give us background on the character's, highlight some of the current plot points, or tell us of future plot points to come. Unless you can actually find evidence of this (you've really struggled in this department bruh), then fail. Again.

4. Again, how is this point exactly bad? If Eren knew how to control his powers, even more haters and detractors would arrive and claim that "Eren is OP" and other nonsense like that. It's a no win situation apparently, so why not go with the path that'll dish out the least amount of damage (if the damage is even existent in the first damned place).

5. Since when does including drama and suspense in a series = flaw? Especially when one of the genres of the series is "Drama". Cmon son.

Thanks for proving that, again, most AoT haters and their arguments have no pounds, kilos, weight whatsoever.



1. I mean op super villain that the heroes have no way of defeating, but still always beat in the end, usually with surprising ease (oh look, the best of the best just got whipped out by the Titans; we have no way of winning; few episodes later: yay, we retook the town, we only lost some faceless number that was just thrown out there with no real consideration; oh look, that female titan just murder the VERY VERY best like it was the easiest thing; next episode: look at the rookie really messing with that same female Titan like it was the easiest thing in the world, and lets watch as the other guy solo r*pes her with moves impossible in reality)

2. Well I guess I will give you this point. But I still feel it is being used more than justifiable.

3. As a matter of fact: https://plus.google.com/113581974701996236770/posts/KJttaZ3EMSK

4. You fail to see my point. I am saying the power itself is a shounen battle manga tactic.

5. "Drama is life with the dull bits cut out" - Alfred Hitchcock. There is both good drama and bad drama. Good drama is used to create a deep, riveting, relatable story. Bad drama, the type I am talking about, is used only for the sake of engaging the audience's attention. It is shallow, and serves no benefit except for attracting a casual crowd that either doesn't care or doesn't know what a good story is, aka it is great for making a cash cow but at the same time undermines the quality of the writing.

PS, can you PLEASE actually think about what I am typing instead of just skimming over it and then thinking of what you think is a smart comeback. Yes, if we were writing an outline of the plot of AoT, Eren's death and him gaining his power have a lot to do with each other. But I am *NOT* talking about a plot outline, I am talking about the various elements of the story and how they influence the meat of the story. If you cannot comprehend this simple difference, then it will be impossible for me to show what is wrong with AoT in the same way that it would be impossible to show that 2+ does not equal 3 to someone who doesn't understand matchamatics.


1. And again it goes back to conquering a goal and moving past an obstacle. If you can't see that this is, in slightly different forms but still there nonetheless, in nearly EVERY modern anime/manga/show (and not even modern, period) then go back and reevaluate.

3. I said, "anything that is useless". Every bit of dialogue in those pictures were used to either convey confusion by the lower members, frustration and panic from the higher members, etc. My point still stands.

4. And I just said a while ago that just because the series uses a few shonen tactics doesn't make it bad. Wow. Again.

5. And this is where this convo ends, I'm afraid. I know that you feel that AoT is the latter of the drama's but in truth this portion is all subjective. I could even rebut with the fact that many fans feel relatability to Eren and the rest of humanities cause.

6. Still not getting that Eren's death essentially IS Eren's transformation? Still not getting that they can be seen as singular and pushed the plot ahead in a very BIG way? Cmon son, you're not even trying anymore. (And did you happen to think that thinking time for others varies from person to person? Hence why I can read what you posted, comprehend the nonsense of what you posted and combat it appropriately).

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Posted 9/21/13

eos wrote:

I just don't like when shows get overhyped. Not saying "Shingeki no Kyojin" is bad, but the fanbase personally is very annoying to me.


Eh, this kind of bothered me, but I grew out of it, truly.
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ArtyD42 wrote:


vglan-funman wrote:
In this day and age, it's pretty foolish to decide whether you'll continue a series based on the first episode alone. Most people will watch 3-5 episodes before deciding whether a series has captured their attention or whether they need to drop it.


If you have to watch more than 1 episode to get it to even get minimal attention for an anime has it not failed? You've basically said "watch more, it gets better" without actually saying so. You don't present an argument for what I said before. If episode 1 isn't enough to get minimal attention from me what reason do I have to tune in episode 2?

Rather than address this you decide to call me a fool. I find using my time to watch an anime's first episode to decide if any of it drew my attention a valid point. Or are you saying that the anime is terrible until episode 3? In which case my previous statement of episode 1 not getting any of my attention is validated by you.



Re-read what I said. First, I didn't call you a fool, but instead called your actions foolish. Not really a diss, just that I don't understand why you would watch 1 episode of a show and decide to drop it then and there. That's like watching the very first episode of Game of Thrones and saying "doesn't seem like it'll be a good show at all, I'll drop it". Most first episodes are there to introduce the plot and characters to you and, often than not, it takes more than one episode to do that.

Also, what do you mean by episode 1 gets minimal attention from you? Idk about you or your watching interests, but I find it extremely hard to believe that you didn't feel anything from the first episode of this series, whether it was from the animation or the atmosphere or anything in between. No offense, but I feel like you (whether knowingly or unknowingly) are underrating the series based upon its popularity and the massive hype it is getting.
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Attack on Titan? I hate it, sometimes I am bored others just annoyed. One of the worse simulcasts this season. But when it finishes, I am going to give it another try, till then 5 minutes a week will give me an idea of what is going on. Guess it IS better than the monster of the week format.
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Attack on Titan is a colossal success!

Complaining about the pacing of the anime, when there were only like 3 or 4 episodes where the action slowed down to progress the story, seems like grasping at straws to find a complaint. The anime follows the manga very closely and doesn't leave much out. I would rather have that than the typical manga-to-anime treatment found with Magi or Campione! where there's a tremendous amount of content left out of the anime, or having the anime catch up with the manga as with Naruto or Fairy Tail resulting in filler content or going on hiatus. I was under the impression that due to Attack on Titan's manga success, the anime studio didn't want to rush the story and squeeze it into one season. If you're expecting Attack on Titan to a have titan / monster / protagonist of the week as most shows do, you're gonna have to look elsewhere.

I actually find the slower-paced episodes gave me a chance to breathe because the action is so intense. If every episode was rushed to fit in the action, then the show would turn the episodes into a competition because the viewer will grow numb to the human's onslaught. Encouraging the overused shock mechanic found in America's mainstream culture of trying to best the previous episode / performance.

Attack on Titan has action, but it's action is rooted in fear, where the intent is to stimulate fear within the viewer, much like horror or slasher films achieve. This is atypical in your standard shounen manga and was brought up earlier in the thread. By slowing the pace of the story down, the author and anime studio are able to create suspense found in survival horror stories, like Resident Evil or the first two episodes of Total Eclipse. The goal of Attack on Titan is to make the viewer feel the hopelessness and desperation the characters feel when mankind, as a whole, is crawling and clawing their way to survive.

Simulating fear in the viewing audience is extremely difficult to pull off because of the fourth wall. How many scary movies have you seen that didn't actually scare you? There's probably been some scary movies that scared other people but not myself and vice versa. It's going to be the same with anime and with Attack on Titan. Because mankind is fighting against their own extinction, Attack on Titan is very dark and very violent. It does not make sense to have a beach episode or fan-service because that would diminish the heavy overtones of the show. The absence of fanservice demonstrates that anime doesn't need fanservice in order to be successful. Sex will always sell, but Attack on Titan proves it doesn't have to be a requirement.

The Colossal Titan won't be able to kick down everyone's fourth wall and that's okay. Thankfully, anime offers genres and themes for all types of people.
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Posted 9/21/13
for those of you living under a Dwayne Johnson this is a great series to check out even if it is over hyped
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vglan-funman wrote:
Re-read what I said. First, I didn't call you a fool, but instead called your actions foolish. Not really a diss, just that I don't understand why you would watch 1 episode of a show and decide to drop it then and there. That's like watching the very first episode of Game of Thrones and saying "doesn't seem like it'll be a good show at all, I'll drop it". Most first episodes are there to introduce the plot and characters to you and, often than not, it takes more than one episode to do that.

Also, what do you mean by episode 1 gets minimal attention from you? Idk about you or your watching interests, but I find it extremely hard to believe that you didn't feel anything from the first episode of this series, whether it was from the animation or the atmosphere or anything in between. No offense, but I feel like you (whether knowingly or unknowingly) are underrating the series based upon its popularity and the massive hype it is getting.


And yet in the first episode we know next to nothing about the series. I don't care for Game of Thrones either. That's where Titan is going. It's getting hyped and hyped and hyped until the hype is greater than the anime. So when we go to this level of hype we start watching episode 1 and... FIND NONE OF IT. His mom died, his house is gone, the military is a joke, the only people whom the main character feels are doing anything feel like a joke, people are more afraid of the girl than the boy, and we end with the titans getting into town.

First possible defense activity is... TO TURN AND RUN. The intro shines cowardice so much it disgusts me.

I wrote this earlier with spoiler tags in the thread. You were too busy making your giant post reply quotes of titan proportions to see it. I've got no interest in it's theme, and it's supposed to be the die hard must watch anime of the decade apparently to you. I don't see your point. I know the hype is there, I know there are hardcore fans about it.

Now give me a valid reason to watch it. Forget the batman maneuver gear or whatever the hell it's called. Forget there's a bunch of titans out to kill off humanity. Forget this motive for the main character is to avenge this invasion.

What's the point?
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eos wrote:

I just don't like when shows get overhyped. Not saying "Shingeki no Kyojin" is bad, but the fanbase personally is very annoying to me.


My thoughts exactly. I have already given my two cents on Attack on Titan. I will admit, I was overly negative in that post. I'll bring in some positives now.

Praise 1: Story Concept. The story that this anime is telling is an amazing one. It's fantastic. I am very much fascinated by the plot.
Praise 2: Realistic Personalities. The character actions and reactions are, while unexciting, very much what a normal human would do in a given situation.
Praise 3: Plot Twists. I can't really elaborate on this. When there is a surprise, the story gets more interesting.

So, while I have things to say that shoot down Attack on Titan, I can say nice things too. Just so that Attack on Titan fanboys don't get carried away, here is what I said earlier:


meowmeow418 wrote:

Based on my experience, when something (not just anime) gets a lot of hype, it doesn't live up to it. Take Sword Art Online for example. The anime community got punched in the face by huge amounts of advertising. However, I cannot begin to count how many fans finished the series with disappointment. I was one of them.
As such, when an anime starts getting a lot of hype even before the release, I approach it with skepticism. Attack on Titan was no exception. While I am finding Attack on Titan a good anime, I am not finding it to be as great or awesome as everyone says it is. Why?

Excellent question!

Problem 1: When an anime gets a lot of positive attention, your expectations naturally climb. As such, the flaws you find (even the tiniest of flaws) become a much bigger deal.
Problem 2: Blood. Practically every kill results in some sort of blood fountain or make blood rain from the sky. In other words, the amount of blood is way too much. I feel like that the battle scenes are about the blood rather than the battles themselves, which really takes away from the experience.
Problem 3: The Battle of Trost arc. Compared the other arcs, this one was really long. The main contributing factor was the episode that showed Mikasa being adopted by Eren's family. That consumed an episode that could have moved the story forward. Instead, the story came to a sudden halt.
Which brings us to Problem 4: Story Progression. When you are trying to push a large and heavy object a long distance, you move in a sort of stop-and-go motion. I am getting that feeling as Attack on Titan progresses in the story. The story comes to halts too often.

I am not saying Attack on Titan is bad. I just don't think it's great. The only reason I started watching was because of peer pressure, not because of things I heard, or because I was curious. And it definately was not the hype that got me interested. In fact, the hype was the main reason I was not watching Attack on Titan.
I know people will disagree. To those people, I have one thing to say:
BRING IT ON!!!

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Alright... guess I have to give examples of "the point" so people can understand my objective for you to respond with.

A vigilante's activities within a crime infested city working outside the law to support justice is:


Too easy? How about this one instead?

One boy's quest to change the world's opinion about himself regardless of all the hate directed to him is:


Maybe I'm still doing things too easily understood. Let's bust a move and pull out the grandmaster statements instead.

The story of a group of teenagers who would sacrifice all for the benefits of others, but is the price they pay worth it?

No spoiler for this last one to give you the answer. It's also on this website and held in high regard even though it's only 12 episodes long and has movies that I know of.

Now if there was one series I'd direct you to with a single sentence, what would the Attack On Titan one be?
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Posted 9/22/13
Exactly. This series is completely overhyped. It is not a bad show, but it's not like it's the best of all time. Hunter X Hunter outclasses it so badly.
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Posted 9/22/13
Idk y but I love this anime
oSolar 
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This forum discussion is actually the first time I have ever seen someone dislike Attack on Titan. It has 90% 5 stars on this website, reviewers love it, and its making tons of money. Hype is one thing but it can't give the series good reviews. If something is heavily anticipated that actually leads to disappointment. In this case however it is still strong.
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rebuild_eva01 wrote:

Attack on Titan is a colossal success!

Complaining about the pacing of the anime, when there were only like 3 or 4 episodes where the action slowed down to progress the story, seems like grasping at straws to find a complaint. The anime follows the manga very closely and doesn't leave much out. I would rather have that than the typical manga-to-anime treatment found with Magi or Campione! where there's a tremendous amount of content left out of the anime, or having the anime catch up with the manga as with Naruto or Fairy Tail resulting in filler content or going on hiatus. I was under the impression that due to Attack on Titan's manga success, the anime studio didn't want to rush the story and squeeze it into one season. If you're expecting Attack on Titan to a have titan / monster / protagonist of the week as most shows do, you're gonna have to look elsewhere.

I actually find the slower-paced episodes gave me a chance to breathe because the action is so intense. If every episode was rushed to fit in the action, then the show would turn the episodes into a competition because the viewer will grow numb to the human's onslaught. Encouraging the overused shock mechanic found in America's mainstream culture of trying to best the previous episode / performance.

Attack on Titan has action, but it's action is rooted in fear, where the intent is to stimulate fear within the viewer, much like horror or slasher films achieve. This is atypical in your standard shounen manga and was brought up earlier in the thread. By slowing the pace of the story down, the author and anime studio are able to create suspense found in survival horror stories, like Resident Evil or the first two episodes of Total Eclipse. The goal of Attack on Titan is to make the viewer feel the hopelessness and desperation the characters feel when mankind, as a whole, is crawling and clawing their way to survive.

Simulating fear in the viewing audience is extremely difficult to pull off because of the fourth wall. How many scary movies have you seen that didn't actually scare you? There's probably been some scary movies that scared other people but not myself and vice versa. It's going to be the same with anime and with Attack on Titan. Because mankind is fighting against their own extinction, Attack on Titan is very dark and very violent. It does not make sense to have a beach episode or fan-service because that would diminish the heavy overtones of the show. The absence of fanservice demonstrates that anime doesn't need fanservice in order to be successful. Sex will always sell, but Attack on Titan proves it doesn't have to be a requirement.

The Colossal Titan won't be able to kick down everyone's fourth wall and that's okay. Thankfully, anime offers genres and themes for all types of people.


I couldn't have put this better myself. I really cannot believe people complain of pacing for a 25 episode season. Haven't any of you seen an episode of ANY of the big 3? Trost was what like 8 episodes and people complain that it was drawn out? Marineford/Sasuke retrieval arc was how long again?
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