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Post Reply "Anime is not getting worse - we simply lack perspective"
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25 / M / Under fire
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Posted 9/22/13
http://www.crunchyroll.com/anime-feature/2013/09/22-1/feature-anime-is-not-getting-worse-we-only-lack-perspective

There's the "blog". Interesting. Though I find this to be a pretty simplistic observation.

I think the real problem is that everybody seems to only have room in their heart for one best anime, and can't simply accept that some shows are good to only them and some shows are bad to only them. It's like there can only be one best show for everybody.

Sword Art Online, as the popular primary sponge of obnoxious hater rage these days, is pretty good. Is it an OMGMASTERPIECE? Uh...does it have to be? If any studio could create a masterpiece at the drop of a hat...then what would the significance of a "masterpiece" be, exactly?

Now if you disliked Sword Art Online for a valid list of reasons then that's a different subject altogether, the anime simply fell outside of your preference and nothing can really be done about that, but what exactly is the point of ever saying "It's not a masterpiece". I see people say this all the time about anime that people are talking about. I see people say it about Shingeki no Kyojin too.

"It's no masterpiece"

Uhhh...okay. And? Usually this follows with the same person saying "I'm not saying it's bad it's just not as good as the fan boys say it is". What the honest sam hell does that mean? Since when did you get to infringe on everyone else's preference.

In my opinion, the most productive and healthiest thing that can happen to the anime community, is people stop talking for everyone else, and understanding what it means to have your own opinion...that way people can like what they like and hate what they hate, and at the end of the day we can all agree that we simply love anime. I just see no point in trying to force someone to think that an anime is "bad". Sure, we can have discussions, make comparisons, and debate over the quality of techniques used across the many different shows...but everyone is a critic. Even though I love Chihayafuru, and I personally believe it to be a masterpiece, there's no shortage of people I know who love anime and wouldn't touch that anime because it's worlds apart from anything they're interested in. I love Bakemonogatari, but I've had friends get bored as sin watching it. I think to myself, how the hell could they get bored watching this?!

They have different tastes. That's really all there is to it. So yes, we lack perspective...and in my opinion that's the perspective of being one among many.

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23 / M / This Dying World
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Posted 9/22/13
Nope, I watch a lot of different anime. I have only truly hated one anime.
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20 / M / Miami
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Posted 9/22/13
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Posted 9/22/13 , edited 9/22/13
Every year this discussion gets brought up and it simply boils down to the following, just because an anime is more popular than your favorite anime, doesn't mean your favorite anime is bad and that anime is getting worse.
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Posted 9/22/13 , edited 9/22/13
Personal taste is matter in everything, not only anime. As said, I like Gifu Dodo than many anime in this season.

I realize that it's pointless to argue with people having opposite taste. No point of trying changing theirs.
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Posted 9/22/13 , edited 9/22/13

zipzo wrote:
but what exactly is the point of ever saying "It's not a masterpiece". I see people say this all the time about anime that people are talking about. I see people say it about Shingeki no Kyojin too.

"It's no masterpiece"

Uhhh...okay. And? Usually this follows with the same person saying "I'm not saying it's bad it's just not as good as the fan boys say it is". What the honest sam hell does that mean? Since when did you get to infringe on everyone else's preference.


Everything is fine just switch "it's not a masterpiece" to "it's shit" and your point will come across clearer.
Personally i don't find people like this to be a problem they have a point but it does come off as a bit half assed...

But in comparison to people that believe it's absolute rubbish people like this aren't really a concern since the person in question still acknowledges that it's not bad implying theirs a fanbase for a reason.


zipzo wrote:
Even though I love Chihayafuru, and I personally believe it to be a masterpiece, there's no shortage of people I know who love anime and wouldn't touch that anime because it's worlds apart from anything they're interested in.


I think you use the word masterpiece very loosely but being a huge fan as well i'm happy to see another person that appreciates the series.
And yes that's entire true.. i have no interest in sports really but i loved kuroko no basket regardless, i will even throw gravitation randomly in here being a shounen-ai i will admit i greatly enjoyed the series regardless.

It goes without saying i have no genre limitations.
And if you loop hentai and yaoi in there you're a moron.
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20 / M / Free World Jail
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Posted 9/22/13
First of all, i have to tip my hat Zip for making this topic since i was thinking heavily about that article.
"Anime is not getting worse, but people's perspective of anime are flawed" That was my comment on the article.
Now, i watch a fair amount of different types of anime and base my opinion on the enjoyment the anime brings and how it fits it's criteria.
I have no problem with people saying they like ANY anime but when they have no backing on it and try to argue why it's so amazing that's when i get irritated. I understand we all have different tastes but praising some to such an extent amazes me.
Here's three...no SAO...don't want a headache.
Madoka Magica: Now this was a pretty good anime, but people jump all over this just from the fact that is was not your ordinary magical girl series. That's really all it had. A huge, forced difference from other magical girls. Still a dry series for the most part. What worse is that these same worshipers would call an anime like School Days the worse anime they ever seen. I thought you guys liked huge differences from the norm? Brilliant.
Bakemonogatari: Another good series where i feel it's definitely not for everyone. I find it pretentious and boring. Why? All it gives you is clever dialogue with artistic scenes. Personally, i adore black comedy that Bakemonogatari attempts to give but i find it completely weak compared to others with that theme such as Kuroshitsuji and Paranoia Agent. Just not for me but i haven't seen one example of what people like about it other than them saying...omg i love it because it's unique. Gimme ONE scene, ill remember it.
Sunday Without God: Holy s***! People are really eating this up! It switches arcs more than freaking Index/Railgun! (if it actually got more seasons which it won't, ill bet 200 rupees on that) But besides that it's boring and gives such forced drama! Last episode was today and the number of plot-holes it had could rival SAO (dammit i mentioned it). And that was one of the better episodes of the series!

I don't know it's simple...sure there are good anime but masterpiece is a big word. Code Geass is a masterpiece.
^^^^^^ Those are not.
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Posted 9/22/13
Just saying, "masterpiece" is a big word; can't just say it carelessly.
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Posted 9/22/13 , edited 9/22/13
Considering that most lack knowledge of behavioral science, this is not surprising.

Anime quality fluctuates. We do not know if it's going to be a hit or miss with viewers because "different people like different things."(It's redundant, but I want to state a point)

One aspect that is common amongst most people is that they tend to follow trends and fads and lack resolve to deviate from the norm; some fear to voice their own opinion, so they voice the consensus of the majority, and some just enjoy the idea of riding along a fad. (e.g. the guilty crown/sao hate) ("noticed how the GC hate died?" lol) There will always be those highly opinionated ones who lack proper support for their statements, ("names shall not be mentioned") so don't sweat it and enjoy anime at your own pace.



Some food for thought:

Did I truly hate this anime? Could I explain why? Was my thinking influenced at all by others? Asking yourself questions like this provides a basis for your reasoning.

--
http://www.wikihow.com/Think-for-Yourself
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25 / M / Sydney, Australia
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Posted 9/22/13
I disagree with the article and the original post.


Using the same old formula and high school setting are what make anime become bad for anime veterans. For new anime viewers, obviously they wouldn't notice the formula or think that high school setting is an overused setting since they're new to anime, but for someone who is an anime veteran, it gets old fast.

It isn't about perspective, it's about the directors or storyteller not willing to experiment with the way they tell stories.


Not even going to speak about Sword art online since it's a sensitive subject for most people.
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15 / M / A Wall in the Heart
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Posted 9/22/13
Isn't it because the current/newer generation of anime watchers are into the whole "moe" thing? If you think about it, [most of] us are semi-veteran anime watchers, where we've watched quite a few series at the very least, and have had a lingering impression made onto us. But for the people who are starting/have recently started watching anime now, wasn't it because of their desire for the "moe" that we have so many "moe" anime now? I mean, the direction society and its people are going down now does have something to do with it, right? Those of us who hate these recent "moe" centered anime- aren't we like those elderly who are always complaining about how things used to be better "back then" because they grew up like that? Also, a main goal of anime is to advertise a certain product line or merchandise- and "moe" is one of the better ways to do that. I think.
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Posted 9/22/13

fluffykun011 wrote:


zipzo wrote:
but what exactly is the point of ever saying "It's not a masterpiece". I see people say this all the time about anime that people are talking about. I see people say it about Shingeki no Kyojin too.

"It's no masterpiece"

Uhhh...okay. And? Usually this follows with the same person saying "I'm not saying it's bad it's just not as good as the fan boys say it is". What the honest sam hell does that mean? Since when did you get to infringe on everyone else's preference.


Everything is fine just switch "it's not a masterpiece" to "it's shit" and your point will come across clearer.
Personally i don't find people like this to be a problem they have a point but it does come off as a bit half assed...

But in comparison to people that believe it's absolute rubbish people like this aren't really a concern since the person in question still acknowledges that it's not bad implying theirs a fanbase for a reason.

Since the original post you quote is a essentially paraphrased version of a comment that I got my head bit off over earlier in the week, allow me to provide a counter perspective. Saying "it's not a masterpiece," comes as a response the the hero-worship that AoT gets (in the exact similar vein as what happened with SAO). As a comment moderating from one extreme, I don't see any problem with saying that. And as long as there are reasons given backing that up, it's not even a cop-out.

Ultimately, I think it depends on whether or not you think there can be absolutes at all in making critical judgements of artistic works. Is there art that is intrinsically good? Is there art that is intrinsically bad? If you don't believe in artistic absolutes (which you have to differentiate from preferences), then you must assume everyone is giving opinions. And, yes, from that POV, there is no such thing as a masterpiece.

I personally do believe in artistic absolutes, but I'd certainly hesitate to say that anime is declining in quality. If you are just watching what is produced (i.e. the current season), you are just taking what the industry gives you. If you are actively searching out shows to watch, attempting to watch the best stuff you can, you are going to have a much different perspective on the quality of anime as an entire medium. If you apply absolutes to those two situations then yeah, you are going to end up with the perspective that the quality of anime is steadily declining. (I think that's essentially the point the author of the article was trying to make).

A lot of what I see is people trying to apply absolutist judgements as personal perceptions and vice versa. People unconsciously mix up their definitions, and that's where we all get stuck in the mud.
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Posted 9/22/13
Some fans are just insane like that and half of those fans are mere elitist in the fandom.
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Posted 9/22/13 , edited 9/22/13
The laid-back, non-assertive TrueGoober read a long and opinionated post from the highly opinionated zipzo, and I actually agreed with every part of it. Cool beans.

The tl;dr version would be, perception is reality; no one's opinion is wrong. I completely agree.

I do feel bad for the seinen fanboys currently. Hardly any seinen comes out these days. Was that not the case years ago when Cowboy Bebop and GitS came out?

EDIT: ohhhh but I agree with the counterpoints and other perspectives too. I need to finalize a stance on this lol
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Posted 9/22/13 , edited 9/22/13

zipzo wrote:
In my opinion, the most productive and healthiest thing that can happen to the anime community, is people stop talking for everyone else, and understanding what it means to have your own opinion...that way people can like what they like and hate what they hate, and at the end of the day we can all agree that we simply love anime. I just see no point in trying to force someone to think that an anime is "bad". Sure, we can have discussions, make comparisons, and debate over the quality of techniques used across the many different shows...but everyone is a critic. Even though I love Chihayafuru, and I personally believe it to be a masterpiece, there's no shortage of people I know who love anime and wouldn't touch that anime because it's worlds apart from anything they're interested in. I love Bakemonogatari, but I've had friends get bored as sin watching it. I think to myself, how the hell could they get bored watching this?!

They have different tastes. That's really all there is to it. So yes, we lack perspective...and in my opinion that's the perspective of being one among many.



I'd go a different way, and say that the most useful thing is to look outside the anime fan culture and see the bigger patterns. The 'things ain't what they used to be' mindset is as old as recorded history, and probably older.

Politics, Comics, Movies, Music, Literature, Painting, our very bodies and genetics (look at "Golden Age" as the ancient greeks meant it), you always see this EXACT same pattern no matter what the subject or how old that subject is. There's something inherent in human nature that makes us think that way, for whatever reason.

And it's equally invalid in just about every one of those cases, but we always think it, every generation does. (I find myself pining for the early '90s music the same way my parents pined for the '50s and '60s music, which makes me feel old and crochety :p).


To me, that's the perspective we lack as a subculture.
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