First  Prev  1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9  10  11  12  13  14  15  Next  Last
Post Reply "Anime is not getting worse - we simply lack perspective"
13460 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
26 / M / Under fire
Offline
Posted 9/25/13

GambitVII wrote:

I'd have to respectfully disagree.
If a restaurant stars severing less food regularly for a greater price, would we be lacking perspective if we aren't pleased?

There are some things that are better in this day and age, but it's cut and clear that many shows compromise core elements of story telling specifically to capture an audience. Which is good, but they do it far beyond what's necessary.

If I'm wrong, then we wouldn't be throwing the word fan-service left and right.

While its also true that shows of before have their downsides, let's not forget that fan-service wasn't primary frame they worked around when producing. They had an idea in mind and unless the shows focus was "fan service", not much was compromised to produce what we now would see as the end product.

Disclaimer: For now that's my intuition. If it need be I can find some sources but I'll find time for that when it becomes necessary.


I would also kind of interject at the thought of using food as an example.

Food is something that affects your body...if your body can accept eating a certain thing...then you can eat that thing. You decide on what is good/not good based on how it affects you physically. Past a certain threshold it's about what tastes okay and what tastes amazing. Once we get in to the range of things that taste disgusting, we're getting in to a range of things that are likely to make you throw up or sick to your stomach.

You have a whole different set of motivations for avoiding bad food that are not related to simply your inclination to be entertained.

It's also worth pointing at that food that is inherently good has always and likely always will be inherently good for you (to say nothing of how you think it tastes). Carrots haven't become less good for you than they were when people first started to consume them. The kind of degradation that occurs in the popularity of trends does not occur with food. Once humans discover something is edible and won't kill you, it's pretty much permanently on the list of "things you can eat".

That being said, your example talks of a restaurant that servers less food for a greater price, and that's a ridiculous example because there's no qualitative factor in this circumstance, it's purely a ratio, and obviously if the ratio gets ballooned on the "pay more money" side, people are going to get pissed, but that has nothing to do with preference. Nobody prefers to pay more money for less, therefore we can probably objectively claim that your circumstance is an invalid example.
16475 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
22 / M / CR Forums
Offline
Posted 9/25/13 , edited 9/25/13
I'll totally throw in some judging perspectives of my own.

Below in the 3 Spoiler-catagories are my short, biased thoughts on three different Slice-of-Life anime. These thoughts aren't set in stone, but are graded in the absolutes I apply to judging a shows merit. The idea here is to take 3 shows and put my perspective down. Then I'll try to reason in how Anime is doing in my perspective. The following shows are Haganai, Toradora, and IS(Infinite Stratos). In that order.





Oh god, I've spent far too long with this post, you don't even know. I fell asleep while typing it!


Ok, so why spend all that time making this post? I fell asleep twice while making it, and spend several hours just reviewing these Darn shows despite not really needing too.

I wanted to ask you guys something. These shows are labeled to my perspectives, can you name a show before these in the Slice of Life Genres that are better or worse than them?
If it's better, anime is getting worse, if it's worse, anime is improving.

Why argue on theories when we can state our perspectives, list shows, then add more perspective? It would accomplish more than simply telling people they're right or wrong, or have no right to label things as such.

I can't help but label all three of these as lesser than more than several series that came out before them, but what about you?
14243 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
M / Mars, Mt. Olympus
Offline
Posted 9/25/13 , edited 9/25/13

zipzo
That being said, your example talks of a restaurant that servers less food for a greater price, and that's a ridiculous example because there's no qualitative factor in this circumstance, it's purely a ratio, and obviously if the ratio gets ballooned on the "pay more money" side, people are going to get pissed, but that has nothing to do with preference. Nobody prefers to pay more money for less, therefore we can probably objectively claim that your circumstance is an invalid example.


Your absolutely correct, the examples not the best but at least I was hoping to communicate the emotion through a simple example that anybody can relate to.

Then of course, it should be clear that I'm not all that invested in the topic all together. Much of the responses here are the result of having a biased position concerning the topic. Which is expected. However, much of what was used to back their position can be summed up in this fashion: "look at it this way and ignore the big picture", hence the lack of any real progress I see in the discussion in the first place.

Though If I'm intrigued enough, I might invest a little more effort in contributing to the topic. But as is I'm merely here to prompt people to think outside their comfort zone so that I may see a better discussion about this topic which I have some interest in.

I am also viewing this from work, so I don't exactly have the spare time to indulge in great detail on the topic as serving customers comes first.
12228 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
31 / M
Offline
Posted 9/25/13 , edited 9/25/13
The culture, genres, styles, topics, attitudes and memes covered in anime are constantly changing. The generation that grew up on New Dominion Tank Police(1993) isn't going to suddenly enjoy Girls und Panzer (2012) just because they both involve girls driving tanks --- the whole attitude, style and spirit of the works couldn't be any more different. They reflect totally different eras and different sensibilities. If you liked the style of yesteryear more than the current offerings, then things will seem like they're getting worse, and vice versa. So it's really subjective.
12429 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
50 / M / In
Offline
Posted 10/16/13

kilikikero wrote:

The culture, genres, styles, topics, attitudes and memes covered in anime are constantly changing. The generation that grew up on New Dominion Tank Police(1993) isn't going to suddenly enjoy Girls und Panzer (2012) just because they both involve girls driving tanks --- the whole attitude, style and spirit of the works couldn't be any more different. They reflect totally different eras and different sensibilities. If you liked the style of yesteryear more than the current offerings, then things will seem like they're getting worse, and vice versa. So it's really subjective.

I agree 100% (though I loved both those shows)

23579 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
24 / F / New Jersey, USA
Offline
Posted 10/16/13
I tend to question what is more important to people cliches or overall originality.
67903 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
47 / F / Center of the Uni...
Offline
Posted 10/16/13

kilikikero wrote:

The culture, genres, styles, topics, attitudes and memes covered in anime are constantly changing. The generation that grew up on New Dominion Tank Police(1993) isn't going to suddenly enjoy Girls und Panzer (2012) just because they both involve girls driving tanks --- the whole attitude, style and spirit of the works couldn't be any more different. They reflect totally different eras and different sensibilities. If you liked the style of yesteryear more than the current offerings, then things will seem like they're getting worse, and vice versa. So it's really subjective.


Quoted for Truth...

and Laziness. Now I don't have to waste energy typing up something that says essentially the same thing. (though, like Uncletim, I too greatly enjoyed both tank shows given as examples)

59023 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
the South Bay
Offline
Posted 10/16/13 , edited 10/16/13
This is a very subjective matter and plus being to open to new things .

67903 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
47 / F / Center of the Uni...
Offline
Posted 10/16/13
Okay let's talk about things that aren't subjective.

Price: 15 to 20 years ago you payed $30+ 1990's dollars for a two episode VHS or single OVA. Sometimes from a series that never finished. A complete 6 to 8 episode OVA set would cost you well over a $100. Not to mention the travel costs involved in getting to the sci fi, comic book or other convention where you might find a 'vendor' in the dark corner actually selling them for any price. (CASH ONLY)

NOW?: you can buy a two cour 26 ep series for $30 (on sale, and depending on the series.) with your credit card online and have it delivered. and they might throw in a cheap t-shirt too boot.

Selection: 15 to 20 years ago there were so few exported anime that every fan had watched ALL of them or at least all of the 'classics'. There were so few anime out that people would happily pay 1990's prices for them sight unseen and watch anything. Even incomplete shows. anime pornos and badly dubbed travesties. oh and if it was a legal copy you watched it 2 to 3 years after the trade magazines and hard core japanophiles who visited the country first started talking about it. (ie. AoT.... wouldn't be around in English, even subtitled until 2016)

Now: 8 'simulcasts' of CURRENTLY RUNNING shows, from ONE site that has competitors... need I say more?

Animation:
Recycled henshin sequences. Ten minutes of standing in the rain or waiting on an elevator. The illusion of motion from a still picture over whicht the camera moves. stop motion action sequences....

Now... At lot more action. a lot more often and beautifully animated.

Conventions:
Then: We shared private room parties with the Furries. (actually I was a furry and shared it with the anime fans... ) at sci fi conventions. If someone was cosplaying they most likely wore a star trek uniform.

Now: Anime only conventions of monstrous size.. everywhere!


------

I hardly think it's getting worse by these concrete measures.

the subjective ones... well.. They're subjective.

Is the writing better on Akira or GitS: solid state society?
Are the willowy women with impossibly thin ankles of Captain Harlock and Galaxy three nine better or worse than, Yoko Litner or Madoka or ... name your current character design of choice.

Is it better for anime to be a mass fandom so big it has factions and is nearly mainstream? or was it more fun when it was select and smaller and everyone had seen all the same shows?

on a subjective level...

There's very few anime that are as compelling to ME as the ones that got me interested and then addicted in the first place. But part of that is because I'm jaded and saturated.

That said. There's many I enjoy and find fun to watch even being aired right now. and some of those I suspect will be remembered and watched again.

At one time Black Lagoon and Jormungand were 'new'

At one time Code Geass was new.

When I think of Old.... I'm thinking of anime that a lot of people seem to have forgotten or never knew about.



I don't think anime is getting any worse. but... Your Mileage May Vary.





10327 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
38 / M / Minnesota, USA
Offline
Posted 10/17/13
Pretty much everything Papagolfwhiskey just said. I would add this. Are there more bad animes available? Yes, of course there are. There is little to no weeding out process involved in simulcasts. For good or bad there was a lot less anime flowing back in the day, which means there was a lot less crap. This doesn't mean that anime was better, we just weren't seeing a lot of the really bad stuff. It isn't so much that we forgot it, we just never saw the really crappy stuff because it didn't ever leave Japan. Now we can see it all, good and bad, but isn't it better to be able to choose yourself rather than having ADV or Animeigo choose for you what is worth watching?

7645 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
32 / F / In a van down by...
Offline
Posted 10/17/13
Are anime series getting worse?

No. Not really. Sure there's some turds out there...and let's face it...a LOT of turds...but there's plenty of series that are great as well. You just have to look.

I think a lot of arguments seem to be 'YOU DON'T LIKE WHAT I LIKE SO FUCK YOU'.
7645 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
32 / F / In a van down by...
Offline
Posted 10/17/13

qualeshia3 wrote:

I tend to question what is more important to people cliches or overall originality.


Originality helps...but even that's subjective when it all comes down to it...

I mean, we all have our own tastes.
Jah666 
36655 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
29 / M / Mississippi
Offline
Posted 10/18/13
Just started One Piece, it's really shocked me at the quality of it so far. I really dig how old school it looks, and I see where a lot of current animes have taken some of it's elements.
16475 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
22 / M / CR Forums
Offline
Posted 10/18/13 , edited 10/18/13


Nice argument, you covered your bases. I wish you threw out more old-school names however.

I've never thought of Anime as a niche market. As I grew up life told me Anime was Cartoons for older kids.
Samurai Jack, Dexter's Lab, Fairly Odd Parent, Avatar the Last Airbender, all these shows had an episode promoting anime. From the DBZ/Speed Racer awesome-parody episodes to the entire style or culture of the shows.

I've lived my whole life a 30 minute drive from Funimation's HQ, and they got started when I was rather young. VHS copies of Funimation dub'ed Dragon Ball and others were the norm around my household.

As anime was showcased on TV more, I saw two rather awesome anime. Rurouni Kenshin and Yu Yu Hakusho. Now the likes of FLCL, Parinoia Agent, Lupin the 3rd, Cowboy Bebop, Big O, and Trigun are all amazing, but they didn't give you the Anime feel back then.

Rurouni kenshin, Inuyasha, Samurai 7, and Ninja Scroll. Those were the "anime" back when I was young. They were set in old-school japan! They had swords and several of them used Honor fics or period politics at the least.

But when I think of Yu Yu Hakusho, that was an american Cartoon to me. I didn't know that it was set in "modern Japan" at all. Who wears a green school uniform? WTF? The world of HunterXHunter, YuYu's spiritual successor, was what I though of the shows universe originally. They were in Fantasy land, not Japan!

In this case, I lacked perspective. The show actually taught me numerous things of Japanese culture, School uniforms, delinquent gang culture, that japanese teachers are pricks and go out of their god damn way to make life suck for you(GTO enforced it too! If your Japanese teacher isn't a single woman in her 30's, it's an evil man who hates children, and wants to stop them from passing school at all costs)
I enjoyed how amazing this world he set up was, how everybodys costume looked soooo badass, especially Kuwabara's. And that Hair cut? Totally unique, that author must have been a Genius.

Since then I have a much larger perspective of anime, obviously, but that doesn't diminish the quality of a show.

My enjoyment isn't how I judge a show. The shows goals, and how well the accomplish them is how I judge it.
FLCL and Kill la Kill want to stand out, say "hey America, look at THIS shit!" and accomplish that.
Ikki Tousen want's me to buy figures of girls in shredded clothing, and I don't own any school girl figures(Madoka Magica figures arn't )schoolgirls if they're in Magical girl attire!)

Then you have the early 2000's. The costs of anime and the rise of availability in technology had anime turn away from hand-drawn to the digital. Not bad, but this allows both low-budget indie anime and low-cost profit runs. Anime was no longer a niche market to create for, anybody could do it within a reasonable budget, and with the costs down why wouldn't you start making crappier anime? Lower risks for similar or greater rewards! It's only now, a number of years after, with the market saturated in Anime that people are trying harder. You have those great visuals with bad story, you have the great story with lack luster animation. You have the big studio's making their big throws just this season. Kill la Kill, Beyond the Boundary, the entire Bakemonogatari franchise series.

The big studio's are now throwing out great works, they're used to the tech and smashed open their piggy banks. The fans are ready.

Now they haven't been lazy, We had our Gurren Lagann's, Clannad's, and Madoka Magica's out here. The SAO's, Guilty Crowns, and Attack on Titans.

But them Infinite Stratos, Maganebu!(Fuck you studio Deen) and Queens Blade are still out there, Those crowd pandering anime? They exist now!

Edit; Woops! Posted too early last time, had to edit my thoughts in!
9118 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
20 / M / Indiana
Offline
Posted 11/6/13
I've been watching anime since the mid 90s when I was a wee lad, and i'll be completely honest. While I tend to think I have an eye for quality I am at the same time pretty easy to please there aren't many anime or games I truly hate. That being said I don't think anime is getting worse is there an abundance of High School animes and Moe characters? Yes. Are those all bad? No. Its all a matter of perspective but I think the whole idea of most anime being shit now days is just beyond exaggerating. Times do change and some people particularly ones who don't like change will instantly see it as bad and hate on it. The same is happening in the world of gaming where older gamers seem to have a disdain for modern gaming. In both cases I think its nonsense but again all about perspective I guess. I also agree with that statement that not every anime needs to be a masterpiece, thats beyond true. An anime can be good but not a masterpiece. Most anime I have seen fall under this category. Very few like Clannad: After Story end up being Masterpieces to me, to someone else though that anime might not even be a masterpiece which is understandable. The saying one mans trash is another mans treasure fits perfectly here. Everyone is entitled to love or hate whatever they want just don't put others down for enjoying it or hating it. ^^
First  Prev  1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9  10  11  12  13  14  15  Next  Last
You must be logged in to post.