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Post Reply "Anime is not getting worse - we simply lack perspective"
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Posted 5/7/14 , edited 5/7/14

iblessall wrote:


AnimeKami wrote:
A certain individual implied I should not make wise and insight posts.

Like hell I did.

When you write stuff like what you wrote in this thread, it's good. I like reading it.



I was joking. I should of put the Lol on that sentence. Internet etiquette escapes me once in-a-while and tone of voice is sadly, not conveyed over the web.
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Posted 5/7/14

AnimeKami wrote:


Just want to say, great post. I agree with the thread title that "Anime is not getting worse - we simply lack perspective." There's always been a bunch of mindless entertainment, moe or not, in anime throughout the decades. This is not something new and anime quality is as good if not better than it has ever been; although I personally prefer the warmth of hand drawn and cel based anime.


Here's another "Pre-Moe Era" versus "Moe Era" chart to consider:


If you notice, it shows the idea of making characters more idealized and cute, i.e. more moe, has been around long before the so called modern "Moe Era." The only thing that's changed is what aesthetics constitute more widely accepted attributes of what makes a character endearing or moe to many fans. Emotional manipulation in media is not a new thing.
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Posted 5/7/14

sonic720 wrote:


AnimeKami wrote:


Just want to say, great post. I agree with the thread title that "Anime is not getting worse - we simply lack perspective." There's always been a bunch of mindless entertainment, moe or not, in anime throughout the decades. This is not something new and anime quality is as good if not better than it has ever been; although I personally prefer the warmth of hand drawn and cel based anime.


Here's another "Pre-Moe Era" versus "Moe Era" chart to consider:


If you notice, it shows the idea of making characters more idealized and cute, i.e. more moe, has been around long before the so called modern "Moe Era." The only thing that's changed is what aesthetics constitute more widely accepted attributes of what makes a character endearing or moe to many fans. Emotional manipulation in media is not a new thing.


If you want to get technical a lot of people view moe as being a thing since 1978 with the premier of the incredibly popular (even to this day) manga (anime 1981) Urusei Yatsura! which featured Lum who is attributed as being the mother of moe, the tsundere archetype and the 'magical girlfriend' genre. Elements of these were probably floating around back then but a lot of people attribute the rise in popularity to this series.

I also agree with the cyclic nature of things. It was just moe's turn to be the big thing just like how terrible mech and terrible over the top violence series were before it. Also that 'moe is killing anime' is a really dumb argument especially considering how neither of the two I just mentioned killed it and the fact that moe has pretty much run its course and is going away..... I wonder what will be the next big thing to get a lot of terrible series made. I'm personally betting on an influx of terrible shoenen action. Any takers?
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Posted 5/7/14

JadeAmberTwins wrote:
If you want to get technical a lot of people view moe as being a thing since 1978 with the premier of the incredibly popular (even to this day) manga (anime 1981) Urusei Yatsura! which featured Lum who is attributed as being the mother of moe, the tsundere archetype and the 'magical girlfriend' genre. Elements of these were probably floating around back then but a lot of people attribute the rise in popularity to this series.

I also agree with the cyclic nature of things. It was just moe's turn to be the big thing just like how terrible mech and terrible over the top violence series were before it. Also that 'moe is killing anime' is a really dumb argument especially considering how neither of the two I just mentioned killed it and the fact that moe has pretty much run its course and is going away..... I wonder what will be the next big thing to get a lot of terrible series made. I'm personally betting on an influx of terrible shoenen action. Any takers?

Wasn't the mother of moe someone named "Tomoe"? I forget. Well, it's easier to check Tvtropes I suppose.
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Posted 5/7/14

bathroom64 wrote:


JadeAmberTwins wrote:
If you want to get technical a lot of people view moe as being a thing since 1978 with the premier of the incredibly popular (even to this day) manga (anime 1981) Urusei Yatsura! which featured Lum who is attributed as being the mother of moe, the tsundere archetype and the 'magical girlfriend' genre. Elements of these were probably floating around back then but a lot of people attribute the rise in popularity to this series.

I also agree with the cyclic nature of things. It was just moe's turn to be the big thing just like how terrible mech and terrible over the top violence series were before it. Also that 'moe is killing anime' is a really dumb argument especially considering how neither of the two I just mentioned killed it and the fact that moe has pretty much run its course and is going away..... I wonder what will be the next big thing to get a lot of terrible series made. I'm personally betting on an influx of terrible shoenen action. Any takers?

Wasn't the mother of moe someone named "Tomoe"? I forget. Well, it's easier to check Tvtropes I suppose.


You'd be surprised what is in debate. Truth be told it might be more accurate to say 'a mother of moe' but I personally like the argument of Lum as the mother due to the extreme popularity. I mean the anime is 189 episodes, 11 OVAs and 6 movies and honestly you can see a lot of cues being taken from the series.
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Posted 5/8/14 , edited 5/8/14


Okay well I was going to say something similar to this in response to Kami but looks like you beat me to it and put it better than I would have.



As far as I'm concerned, the orthodox definition of a moe character is what you described and I'm not taking an issue with that. It's just in the nature of language that any slang term is open to re-interpretation and mutation as it's picked up in common usage, and so while I understand the way you're using the word, I was using it in its less formal and less general meaning. You might see that as heresy, but I'm sure you knew what I was talking about, which is what counts at the end of the day with language :P

As for the light/cute stuff not existing back in the day, that's where sonic720 put it, as it's also easy to just fill the 'post-moe' side with mature character designs and do the contrary for the 'pre-moe' side. Even though you were only using it for the sake of getting the definition of moe across, it doesn't seem insightful to me if it's used to support the argument that light/cute anime wasn't prevalent before.

I do agree that high-school shows seem to have been getting increasingly common. I really dislike how the setting becomes so déjà vu and prison-like, as if it was just the same school that all of these shows were taking place in - then again there are thankfully shows that put a spin on things like Nagi Asu, Girls und Panzer, Kill la Kill or Tonari no Seki-kun.

As for the recommendation part - is that directed at me? If so, I have had a guru for quite a while, which is cool because he has access to/watches a lot more than I do and knows what I like, so I generally end up enjoying what he forwards me. Almost all of what I watch tends to be because of what I hear other people saying about them, because I've learned not to trust synopses as a way of discerning how good a show might be.
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