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Post Reply "Anime is not getting worse - we simply lack perspective"
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Posted 9/22/13

zipzo wrote:
First, my apologies. The OP does indeed reflect a very similar interaction that we exchanged earlier in the week. However, as best as I can, I would like to claim that it was not a primary thought running through my mind when I made this post (though I can't say whether or not it might have been sub-consciously present). The article itself uses the word "masterpiece" so I was more gleaning my words off of that, and I would deem it a mere coincidence that the wording mirrored our impasse.


Very much appreciated and accepted. :)

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Posted 9/22/13 , edited 9/22/13

AnimeKami wrote:

Nope, I watch a lot of different anime. I have only truly hated one anime.


School Days? No, wait, I take that back. Code Geass?
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Posted 9/22/13
Hyouka
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Posted 9/22/13

AnimeKami wrote:

Nope, I watch a lot of different anime. I have only truly hated one anime.


half of this thread as become a guessing game. But i'm game.

kujibiki?
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Posted 9/22/13 , edited 9/22/13


Chuunibyou demo Koi ga Shitai! > Hyouka

I have no clue what we're talking about but I hold the above statement to be true.

Edit: oh we're guessing the show AnimeKami hates

Yeah it's Hyouka based off of what he's posted
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Posted 9/22/13

tcfenstermaker wrote:

Bottom line: once someone starts complaining about "these kids today don't know how to make a good anime," you can probably just chuckle to yourself and think, "sucks to get old, doesn't it." Alternately, if you are the one complaining, congratulations--you're getting old.


Which is funny, because much of the industry is worried about the aging creators and lack of young talent, which is the reasoning behind the Young Animator Training Project/Anime Mirai that was started a couple years ago. I think the youngest directors are in their mid-30s.
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Posted 9/22/13
If people are wanting a different perspective on anime I recommend watching some shows like: The Beast Player Erin, Seirei no Moribito, Silver Spoon, Gosick, Space Brothers, natsume yuujinchou, and Planetes. If fan service is what's really bugging people try watching different genres. Slice of Life is a good place to look.
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Posted 9/22/13
I watch anime from any genre even if it didn't came out during the 21st century. I even somehow like anime that people don't like (ex: School Days and La Storia della Arcana Famiglia)
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Posted 9/22/13 , edited 9/22/13
This is a post i did for a thread that was taken down called "when to bail" i never finished it but i think it still get's the point across.
Eventually i will do some editing and tweaks finish it and add it to my blog.
But my friend's were going on about how i should post this and finish it so i thought this topic is relevant enough to post this here.



People make the sad sad mistake of assuming, you truly can't assume unless you actually KNOW what's coming for all you know it could be a moe blob anime that ends with a semi truck running over the entire cast that goes evangelion on your ass.

#1 Knowing your stuff.
After awhile you can actually predict said events moe blobs i have found to be the most predictable a good example was Zettai Bouei Leviathan, this one was a bit of a shocker but entirely predictable by episode three. Pretty much just follow the vibe of said anime and if every single character is a let down don't waste your time, that being said i was expecting some mahou shoujo action adventure epic with a little bit of entertaining comedy. Boy did i learn my lesson.

#2 Being patient.
Theirs many factors to include when looking for something good to watch.
Budget is one of those factors that can impact script writing, characters, music etc. Usually after about twenty episodes regarding long running shounen.. let's use fairy tail and gintama for example, said series start to kick up in production getting more impact regarding epic fights, better art, better music just a better experience for the viewer in general. Theirs also other factors to include such as knowing the staff and knowing the script isn't always gonna be written by one person, and knowing the "original" and the adaption isn't necessarily going to be the same for many reasons. Attack on titan for example.. let's face it, there obviously isn't enough content to finish the series and inevitably said anime will either make a few changes or drastic changes, end on a forced note, or leave it open ended. That in the end kiddies is inevitable when there isn't enough content for the script.

#3 Not being pessimistic.
Anime isn't always gonna be about explosions and epic fights 24/7, again let's go back to attack on titan. theirs a few people out there mainly readers of the manga that like to complain that theirs to much dialog and there isn't enough fighting.. that might be true but isn't it pretty epic to see your manga in action and characters actually having voices? Look.on.the.bright.side your manga is animated and isn't that pretty damn cool? Many people make the mistake of going into a series already with a negative mind set, for example you're basically looking everywhere for a said problem in a characters personality or character development or just small things to amuse you madoka magica is a PERFECT example for this. Stop analyzing a character to the point you hate them, step in there shoes.. look around... what do you see? A little girl faced with a once in a life time decision while witnessing death and her friends suffering and being told from one side she should become a magical girl while on the other side she's being told a different story.
Spoiler alert! Not everything is as it seems people!
It's a dark spin on magical girls for a reason, also urobuchi gen which is famous for making dark stories.

#4 Break out of that safehouse of yours and have some fun! It's anime for peat's sake!
Not everything is gonna start off perfectly or end perfectly inevitably if you want to see something good you gotta have some faith, and understand sometimes you're just gonna be let down if you truly love anime then you gotta give it a chance and have some bloody faith in the original author because in the end why do you think said show made it on the air in the first place? fanservice, moe, over rated? Not always.. more often then not the studio is at fault for changing or editing said content not the author, with that being said.. wouldn't you think the authors original charm would still be present most of the time?

#5 Build up it exists.
Ah yes... my own personal enemy since i first discovered sci-fi back in the good old days when there was project a-ko and tank police.
Sit it out, know the storm is coming, read deeper into what the characters are saying and the story is portraying buckle up and get immersed for god sakes because most of the time

To be honest, i hate myself in the past for dropping anime more focused on story and build up most of my favorites are actually the following.
Honorable mention goes to muv-luv the trilogy which is a visual novel that opened up my view to anime as a whole, not to be confused with muv-luv total eclipse.

#6 It's not shit and value everyone's opinion.


Looking back i actually want to change quite a bit but my friends praised me for this so i thought i would share.
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Posted 9/22/13

Shrapnel893 wrote:


AnimeKami wrote:

Nope, I watch a lot of different anime. I have only truly hated one anime.


School Days? No, wait, I take that back. Code Geass?


no code geass is good (to me)



I'm guessing you're trying to guess what I hate, but no.



RolexKid wrote:


AnimeKami wrote:

Nope, I watch a lot of different anime. I have only truly hated one anime.


half of this thread as become a guessing game. But i'm game.

kujibiki?


This guy is a Kami. Hail this Kami.


Rito2Ru wrote:



Chuunibyou demo Koi ga Shitai! > Hyouka

I have no clue what we're talking about but I hold the above statement to be true.

Edit: oh we're guessing the show AnimeKami hates

Yeah it's Hyouka based off of what he's posted


I honestly do not have a problem with Hyouka. I do have a problem with people saying it is god-tier anime.



This seems appropriate. Free!... isn't really that good of an anime. If said anime was not done by Kyoto Animation, again, no one would give a shit (both parties).

So... here we are, where is the perspective in Free!? What is something truly good about the anime that does not revolve around the characters.

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Posted 9/22/13
Not Hyouka, damn lol
But yea that's also something to note, i think most people don't truly hate certain anime, but just don't like it when others overly praise it.
Free!... of course it's not that good of an anime, its like a slice of life trying to be a sports anime or vice-versa.
Not bad, but praising it is solely based on it's animators. Don't force yourself into thinking its amazing guys, it's okay.
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Posted 9/22/13

zipzo wrote:I think the real problem is that everybody seems to only have room in their heart for one best anime, and can't simply accept that some shows are good to only them and some shows are bad to only them. It's like there can only be one best show for everybody.


Well, yes and no. Simultaneously, even. Generally, with these sorts of things, the "real" problem is that there is no real problem. There's a large number of different, interrelated problems, mostly involving people thinking there must be something wrong with this or that show, and by extension something wrong with the people who like it. Some of them may even be right, but who can tell?

One issue compounding many others is that it's considered cool and edgy to rant about how awful something is, especially things that are upbeat, cute, or have higher popularity outside your immediate age/social group. Moreso among high-schoolers, maybe, but this attitude never really goes away for many people. Coming with that, of course, is the uncoolness of admitting you like something, which is pretty ubiquitous. Unless that thing is itself cool and edgy, in which case there's a lot more praise and less criticism, because the former is more socially acceptable for once (AoT, Fate/Zero, Psycho-Pass, Steins;Gate, and though I hate to admit it, Madoka, among others). Coolness holds so much more weight than quality that it can be hard to see past it to determine what quality actually means.
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Posted 9/22/13


I think that all of these things are subjective though.

If you think about it on a grand scale, the ultimate quality of anything and everything is decided by its mass appeal. There's no such thing as a song that was given a 5 * rating by god, and so thus, it is indisputably a good song. There is no TV show that was categorically defined by a higher power to be a smash-hit, therefore nobody can contest the quality of said TV show. In our reality, on this planet, something that is popular is basically equivalent to it being "good". It might not be good for you, but it must generally be good in order for it to have garnered status and mass appeal.

This is why, regardless of the fact I hate One Piece, will attest to the fact that the anime is likely quite good. I don't like it. That doesn't mean I can't recognize its success.

If everyone in the world besides you likes something, do you ultimately have any justification for saying that it's bad even if you believe it to be?

In general, a ton of people like something, you can't really dispute the fact that the show is good...unless you want to argue semantics such as the quality of each and every one of those persons' tastes. You can dispute the fact that the show certainly wasn't for you, and you didn't enjoy it. You are at full power to dismiss the show in that regard...but calling a show bad when clearly everyone else likes it is simply dismissing the plainly obvious...that the show resonates with enough people to deem the show to be at the very least entertaining enough for it to enjoy financial success...which is all the creators probably asked for in the first place.
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Posted 9/22/13

zipzo wrote:

This is why, regardless of the fact I hate One Piece, will attest to the fact that the anime is likely quite good. I don't like it. That doesn't mean I can't recognize its success.

If everyone in the world besides you likes something, do you ultimately have any justification for saying that it's bad even if you believe it to be?


The Micheal Bay Transformer movies are some of the most popular films in recent memory, but aside from visual appeal, they are far from any measure of "good."
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Posted 9/22/13 , edited 9/22/13

zipzo wrote:

http://www.crunchyroll.com/anime-feature/2013/09/22-1/feature-anime-is-not-getting-worse-we-only-lack-perspective

There's the "blog". Interesting. Though I find this to be a pretty simplistic observation.

I think the real problem is that everybody seems to only have room in their heart for one best anime, and can't simply accept that some shows are good to only them and some shows are bad to only them. It's like there can only be one best show for everybody.

Sword Art Online, as the popular primary sponge of obnoxious hater rage these days, is pretty good. Is it an OMGMASTERPIECE? Uh...does it have to be? If any studio could create a masterpiece at the drop of a hat...then what would the significance of a "masterpiece" be, exactly?

Now if you disliked Sword Art Online for a valid list of reasons then that's a different subject altogether, the anime simply fell outside of your preference and nothing can really be done about that, but what exactly is the point of ever saying "It's not a masterpiece". I see people say this all the time about anime that people are talking about. I see people say it about Shingeki no Kyojin too.

"It's no masterpiece"

Uhhh...okay. And? Usually this follows with the same person saying "I'm not saying it's bad it's just not as good as the fan boys say it is". What the honest sam hell does that mean? Since when did you get to infringe on everyone else's preference.

In my opinion, the most productive and healthiest thing that can happen to the anime community, is people stop talking for everyone else, and understanding what it means to have your own opinion...that way people can like what they like and hate what they hate, and at the end of the day we can all agree that we simply love anime. I just see no point in trying to force someone to think that an anime is "bad". Sure, we can have discussions, make comparisons, and debate over the quality of techniques used across the many different shows...but everyone is a critic. Even though I love Chihayafuru, and I personally believe it to be a masterpiece, there's no shortage of people I know who love anime and wouldn't touch that anime because it's worlds apart from anything they're interested in. I love Bakemonogatari, but I've had friends get bored as sin watching it. I think to myself, how the hell could they get bored watching this?!

They have different tastes. That's really all there is to it. So yes, we lack perspective...and in my opinion that's the perspective of being one among many.



No I don't think so, trying to use perspective as a defense against an anime is a pretty old way of trying to defend things. If you are into reviewing movies then you should know the fine line between opinion and objective analyzation. Yes I am one of those obnoxious sword Art Online haters, I think it's the worst anime, perhaps the worst story I have ever seen, HOWEVER I have perfectly made clear that I hate it beyond the means of my own opinion, I hate it for subjective reasons. I understand how to distinguish between the fine lines of opinion and objectivity.

I can understand when you say that everything is opinion but at some point, that stops being true, I can't just show some guy taking a dump for 2 hours and say "Hey I think it's good, if you don't like it, that's your opinion" Sword Art Online is terrible in an objective sense because nothing about it is original, the first arc is about survival and the 2nd arc is about rescuing someone, my disdain for using recycled plot device garbage is not based off my opinion, the sheer fact that this show has nothing original in it's plot is an objective criticism which stems beyond opinion. Let's observe the characters, once again, I distinguish between my opinion and my objectivity by saying that most, if not all of these characters have terrible dialogue, are flat, cliche, and unbelievably 1 dimension to the point of sheer pretentiousness. I've seen Kirito's archetype over and over again in these animes, I've seen Ms. Threatens suicide's personality archetype. She is the perfect blend of both a pathetic damsel in distress and a pretentious warrior (Oh she beat a giant fish, that MUST mean she is strong). The fact that their personalities are nothing new and cliche is not a matter of opinion, it is sheer fact. Let's observe the show's obvious lack of self-respect, lolis, tentacles, and little sister cliches, the show COMPLETELY wastes our time with alot of pointless little things like these, there is no symbolic relevance to Sugu falling in love with Kirito, sometimes you just have to admit that the author is just a lonely nerd who sometimes writes the show while he masturbates. Observe the villains, a GOOD villain would have a personality, a sense of variety, a sense that he is a normal human being, but what does this show try to promote? Apparently, the show wants the audience to believe that most villains are just pure evil without any sense of dimension to them to serve as target practice rather than be shown off as an actual human being, that villains are just evil for evil's sake. That is unbelievable condescension to the audience's intelligence and once again an objective viewpoint. I don't hate Sugou as a person, I just hate how he is written, and he's written pretty damn poorly, just evil because he is. Look at Code Geass, alot of villains ahd their own philosohpies, same with NGE and Gurren Lagann.

What sword Art Online did to make itself popular was give off the false facade that it was a good show, despite being as cliche as any other smut anime, the environment tries to manipulate you into believing that this is a serious show, but this show has no real message, it's not unique, it does nothing right, the characters are flat, the dialogue is nothing new, it's just the same cliche crap spewed over and over again, none of the character's dilemma's are interesting, virtual reality CAN be a great concept but this show doesn't do anything with it. The author made another anime where a fat kid has a hot chick for a girlfriend, that also incorporates virtual reality but you want to know why it wasn't popular? Because it didn't take itself as seriously as SAO, and because SAO was able to fool the audience into trying to look like something it wasn't, it still got to have the facade that it was a good show, but SAO should never be compared to shows like Code Geass, Gurren Lagann, or NGE. Those shows had originality in their message, they tried something new and had some very intelligent premises even if I think all of them are overrated, once again that's my opinion, but objectivity states that Code Geass, NGE, and Gurren Lagann are all pretty good shows, but SAO is the opposite, not once did I find a single shred of intelligence or original thought, it's just the lonely author's way of pretending to live in a fantasy land with his painfully "adorable" main protagonist and his obedient, good-cook of a girlfriend.

There's a show called Naruto which I believe is a good show but I'm not too crazy about it, because in my personal opinion, I'm not crazy about it like everyone else, but at the same time I turn on my objective switch and analyze the show, the show has a good sense of humor, it has a consistent plot line, the characters seem to be evolving, the mythology is excellent, the fighting style is beautifully articulated, despite not liking it personally, I can say it's a good show in an objective sense.

So I think it's wrong to defend SAO claiming that it's a matter of opinion, because objectively, there is nothing this show does right, it's not original, it just has the facade, that it's a good show, but the characters, the plot, the dialogue, the drama, etc it's all stolen, contrived, 1 dimensional, empty, bland, and pointless.
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