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The Wind Rises and Japan being onesided
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Posted 9/24/13 , edited 9/24/13
..I am weak so I will make this quick..
1972 Gran Torino..

the Clint Eastwood movie Gran Torino starring Clint as the the disgruntled Korean war vet, who hates his kids, and has lost his wife..
his prize possession is a mint '72 Gran Torino..
His neighbors son, they are Hmong refugees, under pressure from gangbangers tries to steal his car..

no good, but the gist is Eastwood tries to reform the boy, the same ethnic group he hated during the war..
they form a good relationship, closer than his blood children and even visits their bare but warm home..

In the end he returns to his basement and dons his uniform and goes out to save his young asian friend..

He is shot down, unarmed....but leaves behind redemption and an inward love of all mankind and one young man
will become a winner in this country fueled by the memory of a strong aging soldier and 4 really nice gran torino
wheels beneath him..

stories are nice, sad, cruel etc...nut they are bollywood bullshit for the most part..

the dogs of war were let slip eons ago...

Kamikaze,
Death marches
Pearl Harbor
Suicidal woman jumping from Korean cliffs with their babies, brainwashed into believing USA will eat them alive..
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Posted 9/24/13

minatothegreatjiraiya wrote:

I've never seen an American movie about the Japanese imprisonment camps, and I remember no teacher ever even talk about it, and that it took up about one or two paragraphs at the end of a chapter about citizenship in my Civics book. I wouldn't say America is too open about it, either.

Farewell to Manzanar made in 1976
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Posted 9/24/13

uncletim wrote:


minatothegreatjiraiya wrote:

I've never seen an American movie about the Japanese imprisonment camps, and I remember no teacher ever even talk about it, and that it took up about one or two paragraphs at the end of a chapter about citizenship in my Civics book. I wouldn't say America is too open about it, either.

Farewell to Manzanar made in 1976


See, I've never even heard of that. It's a memoir, correct.
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Posted 9/24/13 , edited 9/24/13
It's hard to understand why Japan is being one-sided, I think part of the reason may be that the current Japanese government and modern Japanese people, see the crimes of WWII as the crimes of imperial Japanese Nation and not the modern Japanese people. It's like Germany, the crimes committed by the Nazi party are the crimes of the National Socialist Party and the Third Reich, not that of the modern German people who are not Nazis. In America their are many movies, documentaries, books, and televisions programs about the horrible things that Americans have done, i.e. Native American Genocide, Slavery, Imperialism, Korean/Vietnam War, etc., but part of the reason that that happens is the fact that America is made up of many of the people who had the things done to them. You can't deny slavery, when the sons of slaves are still around, can't deny the atrocities committed during Vietnam, because the people who thught the war was wrong are still around, the veterans who are completely messed up because of the war are still around, and Vietnamese immigrants whose families were affected by the war live in America. I don't know if the same thing can be said about Japan, I don't think there was an influx of Korean and Chinese immigrants, whose children would call for the truth, because Japan was isolated it becomes easy to distance itself from the horrors that happen and after awhile, they probably just don't want to deal with something that is becoming ancient history.
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Posted 9/24/13 , edited 9/24/13
It's not a Miyazaki film if it's not at least somewhat manipulative.
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Posted 9/24/13
isn't it normal?

and there's nothing we can do about it; if they want to believe they're all good then that's fine for them, no use us getting our undies in a bunch. We know from anime/manga how messed up Japan really is ; as messed up as the rest of us
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Posted 9/24/13

pewternatural wrote:

It's hard to understand why Japan is being one-sided, I think part of the reason may be that the current Japanese government and modern Japanese people, see the crimes of WWII as the crimes of imperial Japanese Nation and not the modern Japanese people. It's like Germany, the crimes committed by the Nazi party are the crimes of the National Socialist Party and the Third Reich, not that of the modern German people who are not Nazis. In America their are many movies, documentaries, books, and televisions programs about the horrible things that Americans have done, i.e. Native American Genocide, Slavery, Imperialism, Korean/Vietnam War, etc., but part of the reason that that happens is the fact that America is made up of many of the people who had the things done to them. You can't deny slavery, when the sons of slaves are still around, can't deny the atrocities committed during Vietnam, because the people who thught the war was wrong are still around, the veterans who are completely messed up because of the war are still around, and Vietnamese immigrants whose families were affected by the war live in America. I don't know if the same thing can be said about Japan, I don't think there was an influx of Korean and Chinese immigrants, whose children would call for the truth, because Japan was isolated it becomes easy to distance itself from the horrors that happen and after awhile, they probably just don't want to deal with something that is becoming ancient history.


those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it

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Posted 9/24/13
Come back when you can find the US government changing or banning a movie because it shows the US military in a bad light. Deer Hunter, Apocalypse Now, Full Metal Jacket, etc..

Midway was a Hollywood blockbuster from 1976, one of the plot lines was regarding a young Navy pilot and his Japanese girlfriend in Hawaii and how her family was scheduled to be moved to a US concentration camp for the Japanese. His Navy dad pulls all the strings he can to exonerate her family at great personal cost to himself.
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Posted 9/24/13
I wouldn't be too concerned about the film being biased if it's Miyazaki at the helm. He may in fact portray Japan's part in the war quite accurately, although a bit subtly. His family was involved in the manufacturing of Japanese fighter planes, which has left him a mark on him. Let's not forget his portrayal of a military organizations such as in Castle in The Sky, Howl's Moving Castle ,or Porco Rosso.
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Posted 9/24/13

teknomanslade wrote:

Midway was a Hollywood blockbuster from 1976, one of the plot lines was regarding a young Navy pilot and his Japanese girlfriend in Hawaii and how her family was scheduled to be moved to a US concentration camp for the Japanese. His Navy dad pulls all the strings he can to exonerate her family at great personal cost to himself.


Except that it is historically untrue and was really for dramatic effect. As the Japanese Americans in Hawaii were never put into Internment camps or sent to the mainland. Well, about 1800 were, mainly community leaders and priests and teachers, but this is a tiny fraction of the 150,000 Japanese Americans in Hawaii. And they were not shipped out, but rather placed in camps in Hawaii. And these were individuals by and large and not families. And of point of fact, no Japanese or Japanese American living in Hawaii or the mainland were ever charged with anything under Executive Order 9066. Hence, there would be no charges to prove or investigate.

Indeed it was the Japanese Americans from Hawaii who made up the 100th Battalion who proved the concept to get the 442nd into action. And all because the Japanese Americans in Hawaii were never put into Internment camps and were never blacklisted like they were on the mainland.

It is a feel good plot that is not historically accurate, and is mainly there to assuage people's sensibilities and takes away collective guilt by trying to portray some lone holdouts of decency. Which, of course, there were. Many non Japanese protested the Internment of the Japanese Americans on the mainland. And many opened their homes to get them out once the government finally allowed that. And many more did the same when the government closed down the camps. But it is certainly not something that was necessary in Hawaii.

But I do find it somewhat disingenuous to use a film like Midway that has its own major historical inaccuracies to talk about how much better America is about this than Japan. Especially as the way the Japanese Americans were treated in Hawaii vs the Mainland demonstrates that the entire Internment was fueled by prejudice and racism as opposed to military need.

In a lot of ways I find Midway and The Wind Rises in this context to be the same. A feel good movie that glosses over the evils that were done.
Posted 9/26/13 , edited 9/26/13


From diaries, video clips, books, documents and other things in Asia, and outside of Asia - written by Asians, and non-Asians about what Japan hides and does not discuss. Even former Japanese soldiers involved in the war crimes have stated what happened, and then been denounced by the Japanese people and Japan itself for their honesty.

For instance, ever heard of John Rabe? He was a NAZI (a.k.a, on Germany's side - a country that was allied with Japan that too!), who was the head, the leader of the Nanking Safety Zone - a place set up by foreigners to protect the Chinese people in Nanaking from the slaughter of the Japanese soldiers. John Rabe kept a precise diary of what happened during that time period, and worked feverishly to save over 200,000 thousand people. He even tried to contact Germany to try and put an end to what was happening.

When he returned to Germany, Rabe told of what had happened, and even tried to contact Hitler to stop the Japanese soldiers cruel and inhumane doings.

There were plenty of foreigners who also kept diaries and other things to keep track of what the Japanese soldiers did. They smuggled those things out of China when they left. Statues and dedications of them still exist in China to this day.

There was also the Tokyo War Crimes (The International Military Tribunal) where a load of evidence was presented, and micro-analyzed even after the Japanese government destroyed/burnt the majority of proof papers of what they had done. If nothing had happened, why would so many across Asia complain against Japan with horrific tales? Even for a mass conspiracy, that is too much.

The scope of people involved in Nanking and the Japanese war crimes in Asia make it too extreme to hide.






That's just it. It might not be much talked about, or discussed (even where I'm from, things are kept more "under the radar") - but the information is STILL THERE and STILL perfectly accessible and generally known.

In Japan, it is not taught, not known, not understood and utterly denied and downplayed. No movies, books or anything is freely out in the open unless it is horribly changed, or in Japan's favor.

There's a BIG difference.
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Posted 9/26/13

Angerudusto wrote:

It's not a Miyazaki film if it's not at least somewhat manipulative.




...What is this supposed to mean? I'm genuinely puzzled. Are you saying that because Miyazaki makes movies that have characters with genuine emotions and that you can genuinely feel for, that he's being manipulative?


Also, did any of you stop to think that, maybe, just maybe, some of the crimes of the Japanese Imperial Army, Nazis, etc. WERE inflated for propaganda reasons by the victorious Allied Powers? That isn't denying that the Axis countries did anything morally objectionable (they did), but the winning powers certainly had reason to make their defeated enemies, whose cities they obliterated and whose women and children they starved, look as morally and ethically depraved as possible, perhaps beyond what actually happened in real life. Just because someone makes a sobering film that shows a bunch of people being killed in very bad ways and says it's based on historical fact, doesn't mean this is so. Is anyone aware of the Katyn Massacre during WWII, which was blamed on the Germans by the Soviets, but, turns out, decades later, we found out Stalin ordered the massacre of 15,000 people personally? That's just one example.

Something like the 'Rape of Nanking': in terms of real-world logic, the idea that a relatively small force of those 'evil Nips' could wipe out 300,000 people (the entire population of the the city at that time) in such a short amount of time is highly questionable. One author put the amount at 40,000 killed overall during the fighting...some put the estimate even lower. Who's right? Who's wrong? It may be impossible to know 100% for sure, ever, since they are skewed events from 60 years ago, after all. Saying an author is 'biased' because they're politically right-wing or left-wing is asinine...every human is biased towards one point of view. History isn't set in stone.

BTW, does China have in its history books the Great Leap Forward, in which the Communist Chinese government starved millions of their own citizens to death? I doubt it. Do American history books detail the civilian casualties of the Allied airbombings of France (yes, France) during WWII, and Korea and Vietnam during those conflicts? Not really.


Posted 9/26/13 , edited 9/26/13

dax20798 wrote:


Angerudusto wrote:

It's not a Miyazaki film if it's not at least somewhat manipulative.




...What is this supposed to mean? I'm genuinely puzzled. Are you saying that because Miyazaki makes movies that have characters with genuine emotions and that you can genuinely feel for, that he's being manipulative?


Also, did any of you stop to think that, maybe, just maybe, some of the crimes of the Japanese Imperial Army, Nazis, etc. WERE inflated for propaganda reasons by the victorious Allied Powers? That isn't denying that the Axis countries did anything morally objectionable (they did), but the winning powers certainly had reason to make their defeated enemies, whose cities they obliterated and whose women and children they starved, look as morally and ethically depraved as possible, perhaps beyond what actually happened in real life. Just because someone makes a sobering film that shows a bunch of people being killed in very bad ways and says it's based on historical fact, doesn't mean this is so. Is anyone aware of the Katyn Massacre during WWII, which was blamed on the Germans by the Soviets, but, turns out, decades later, we found out Stalin ordered the massacre of 15,000 people personally? That's just one example.

Something like the 'Rape of Nanking': in terms of real-world logic, the idea that a relatively small force of those 'evil Nips' could wipe out 300,000 people (the entire population of the the city at that time) in such a short amount of time is highly questionable. One author put the amount at 40,000 killed overall during the fighting...some put the estimate even lower. Who's right? Who's wrong? It may be impossible to know 100% for sure, ever, since they are skewed events from 60 years ago, after all. Saying an author is 'biased' because they're politically right-wing or left-wing is asinine...every human is biased towards one point of view. History isn't set in stone.

BTW, does China have in its history books the Great Leap Forward, in which the Communist Chinese government starved millions of their own citizens to death? I doubt it. Do American history books detail the civilian casualties of the Allied airbombings of France (yes, France) during WWII, and Korea and Vietnam during those conflicts? Not really.


You do make some great points in your post, and what you say about inflation of certain events is true all throughout history, and throughout all nations. (And yes, I do know about the Katyn Massacre).

Thing is, the Japanese War Crimes and Rape of Nanking have so much proof in detailed diaries, accounts, videos, pictures and other things from people in and out of Asia that is is VERY difficult to downplay/deny what is being said about the events when faced with all the detail. Even ex-Japanese soldiers spoke of the events and of the masses crippled before they (the Japanese soldiers) were faced with death threats and forced to keep quiet.

On account of what the other user said, I tend to see Miyazaki's films as being manipulative - of being anti-war and pro-peace that is.
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Posted 9/26/13 , edited 9/26/13
Just to clarify, I don't know WHAT Japanese history books teach about WWII, if anyone reading this does (I mean actually does...not like, you read some second-hand Korean news report on the subject), then I'd love to hear it, personally. I think controversial subjects should have all sides represented, even ones like the full scale of what Jews were subjected to during WWII (why, for example, is it punishable by imprisonment to question any aspect of the Holocaust?? That's not what a free society does, but it is what Germany does). I could care less about 'rehabilitating' the Japanese Imperial Army, I'm just interested in the truth, not one-sided pleading.


So his films are manipulative in a good way? I tend to use 'manipulative' as a pejorative term.

I don't pretend to know a lot about events in Nanking, but I do think the numbers are inflated and rounded off for dramatic effect and anti-Japanese 'national unity' on the part of the modern Chinese government, which I think is just vile. But I'm no apologist for the Japanese Imperial Army, don't get me wrong.
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