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Will there ever be a borderline between cliche and originality in anime?
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Posted 10/8/13
I was looking at some threads in the anime section on disliking cliches and liking originality. Some of the anime fans are fed up with the annoyance of cliches, then there are some anime fans that have no problem with it or love it. Anime fans of both parties tend to clash with each other on what they find better. I always wondered if both parties can be pleased or its not possible for an anime series to have both originality and a little bit of cliches. I'm in between, since there are few cliches I not too fond of, there are one that I find good.

Bonus Questions:



I tried finding a thread similar to this one yet no luck. Let me know if one does exist.



Give me your own personal opinion on cliches in anime versus originality in anime.

Thank a bunches.






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Posted 10/8/13
There is no originality is concept anymore; it's all about how it's presented. People can decry "cliches" or "stock scenes" as much as they want, but in the end it's all about how you present your cliche/archetype/stereotype/whatever you want to call it.
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Posted 10/8/13
Cliches exist for a good reason: they set expectations, letting people know what they can expect. It is an important way to create the world, especially in a short period of time. It is when there isn't anything beyond the cliches that I have problems with a show.

Keep in mind, true originality tends to be hated initially. That can work for you or against you, depending on the kind of story you are creating.
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Posted 10/8/13

iblessall wrote:

There is no originality is concept anymore; it's all about how it's presented. People can decry "cliches" or "stock scenes" as much as they want, but in the end it's all about how you present your cliche/archetype/stereotype/whatever you want to call it.


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Posted 10/8/13
People can overstate the value of originality, but they can also understate it. Originality is not so much about creating something that has never previously existed and more about arranging things in new and interesting ways.

Madoka Magica is widely praised as being original, and for good reason, but it's hardly the first "dark magical girl series". Just off the top of my head there's Uta~Kata, Shadow Star Narutaru, Mai-Hime, Princess Tutu...need I go on? But Madoka has a lot more to it than that, with concepts ranging from the value ideals to wishes made for oneself vs. wishes made for others, and of course the most fantabulous romance in anything ever.

Nobody toes the line between extraordinary cliche and wild originality more than NisiOisiN (Bakemonogatari, Katanagatari, Medaka Box, Zaregoto). He mixes together cliche archetypes and situations together with references to anime and manga and then says, "for my next trick, you'll take this seriously."
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Posted 10/8/13 , edited 10/8/13

Thrazonn wrote:

People can overstate the value of originality, but they can also understate it. Originality is not so much about creating something that has never previously existed and more about arranging things in new and interesting ways.

Madoka Magica is widely praised as being original, and for good reason, but it's hardly the first "dark magical girl series". Just off the top of my head there's Uta~Kata, Shadow Star Narutaru, Mai-Hime, Princess Tutu...need I go on? But Madoka has a lot more to it than that, with concepts ranging from the value ideals to wishes made for oneself vs. wishes made for others, and of course the most fantabulous romance in anything ever.

Nobody toes the line between extraordinary cliche and wild originality more than NisiOisiN (Bakemonogatari, Katanagatari, Medaka Box, Zaregoto). He mixes together cliche archetypes and situations together with references to anime and manga and then says, "for my next trick, you'll take this seriously."



I found Medaka Box an Medaka Box: Abnormal both fairly amusing to me.

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Posted 10/8/13 , edited 10/8/13
It's an interesting topic. Anime can be vibrantly creative and original, especially when it comes to settings and visual artistry. But from another angle, 99% of it is incredibly formulaic and heavily reliant on cliches and industry conventions.

That's really audience-driven though; studios make decisions based on past performance, and that's directly controlled by the consumer. More recently there have been more international influence though, which could shake things up.

Personally I'd really like to see more things like Death Note, Black Lagoon, and Monster. As I get older the adolescent fantasies of highschool students lack more and more appeal; I'd like to see more seinen with older characters crop up.

But familiarity isn't a bad thing either, as long as it's not blatantly repetitive. There's a lot to be said for rearranging old tropes in new ways and generally refining ideas and themes over time. Even if the original retains it's own awe factor.


qualeshia3 wrote:

1. How well will some anime shows do, if the cliches you see now stopped existing?

Depends on the story, but in general I think too much change all at once turns more people off than it attracts.


qualeshia3 wrote:

2. Would some of you watch or ignore the most popular anime shows if they were underrated?

It's fun finding an underrated gem, and general public opinion can sometimes dampen or sway my own ideas about a series. It's subtle though, I'm not sure if I could point to an example and say I only watched it because it was popular.


qualeshia3 wrote:

3. Since originality was always less dominant than cliches and are everywhere you look, has it been this way for years?

Since the Iliad and the Odyssey, imo. It's nice when there's a unique story that does well though.

This is what's so valuable about timeslots like Noitamina and other latenight programming blocks where TV channels were more open to experimentation outside more guaranteed demographics. Which has given us shows like Cowboy Bebop, Serial Experiments Lain, Texhnolyze, Boogiepop Phantom, Paranoia Agent, Gantz, Berserk, The Melancholy of Suzumiya Haruhi, etc.; it allows for more rogue elements to have the opportunity to influence the usual norms.
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Posted 10/8/13
I think that if an anime deviates too much from what's tried and true, then it wouldn't really have the same things that make people like anime in the first place. For example, I hear a lot about how older fans don't like many newer anime because the newer anime do things so much differently compared to older anime. But at the same time, there are people who complain when an anime employs a concept that has been done before. Personally, I think it's impossible to make something that is 100% original; I think every anime, when broken down into its constituent elements, can be shown to have plenty of elements in common with a lot of other anime, at least in this day and age. I would say that it's not a good idea to try too hard to be original because 'original' isn't necessarily 'good;' There's a reason why certain concepts don't show up in more than one or two anime. Instead, I think its best to take a concept you like, regardless of how many times its been done before, and build an anime around it so that people don't notice that the main concept has been done before or they notice but they don't care because the anime does a lot of interesting stuff with that concept.
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Posted 10/8/13
there is nothing new under the sun.
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Posted 10/8/13
To the cliche/ originality debate, there are a few points.

1. Since many anime are deliniated from manga, and many manga in Japan form serializations based on certain criteria (Shonen Jump), so all the manga taken from Shonen or any other publication have to follow those rules. So of course archetypes and cliches will exist.

2. I agree with the presentation, however, originality to an extent can exist. AoT I believe is a fresh taken on Shonen ideals/ typical story lines/plots.

3. Plot twists always help. They can make things fresh and unexpected, especially in a show/series where archetypes are prominent.

4. This is a big one for me...we ultimately decide what is popular, or what we like. THose that do not like cliches should advocate and try to make popular those manga/anime that are outside the proverbial box. I love both types of anime/manga, but I do get bored with an overly stylized or follow the mold too closely
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Posted 10/8/13

aidenraine wrote:

there is nothing new under the sun.


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Posted 10/9/13

deadpanditto wrote:

Cliches exist for a good reason: they set expectations, letting people know what they can expect. It is an important way to create the world, especially in a short period of time. It is when there isn't anything beyond the cliches that I have problems with a show.

Keep in mind, true originality tends to be hated initially. That can work for you or against you, depending on the kind of story you are creating.


Makes sense.
Posted 10/9/13
While originality is good, cliches make the shows way more fun. I just finished Toradora! and there was nothing unique about it, but damn if I didn't have a blast watching it.
Posted 10/9/13 , edited 10/9/13
Cliche haters were the worst, because they didn`t learned their lesson, everything is always the same, ideas were always recycled.
Cliches is Inspiration,Cliches is Entertainment, Cliches never dies, Cliches will be like this forever.
History Repeats Itself.

Some non-cliche anime can be boring to me.
Here`s the list of my most and least favorite anime cliches.
http://myanimelist.net/blog.php?eid=738987
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Posted 10/9/13

OtakuKoala wrote:

While originality is good, cliches make the shows way more fun. I just finished Toradora! and there was nothing unique about it, but damn if I didn't have a blast watching it.


I have yet to watch that show. Don't comment too much to me on it I'll put that down on a list of what shows to watch next.
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