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Being Politically Correct....
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Posted 11/10/13 , edited 11/10/13

uncletim wrote:


I think your confusing PC with common sence.. Yes rape is a bad thing and should be apposed not out of PC but out of CS. A politically correct thing to do is let someone live anywhere they wish as long as it's with in their means to live there right? So it would be politically correct to let a convected child molester live next to a preschool since it's with in his means to live there. But common sence say OH HELL NO!!! which is better to listen to?


Well, I defined Political Correctness as "offending the least number of people" in my first post, so I'm pretty convinced I'm not confusing it with common sense. Keep in mind that I'm not saying that the politically correct choice is always the right one. My claim in the first post was "you should aim to be as polite as possible until it interferes with anything of import." I'm pretty sure child molesters are matters of import.

My main point here is that PC is not inherently bad. It's because of PC that people generally avoid calling black people "niggers." To use your terminology, I'd say that common sense tells us to be politically correct in this scenario, and further, it's because it's politically correct that we're doing it. No matter what the history of the word is, if nobody finds it offensive, then there's no reason not to use it. It's because it's offensive that we don't use it, and since being PC is the act of trying not to be offensive, it seems to me that being PC in this scenario is the best option. Would you disagree? Is my definition of PC not the same as yours?
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Posted 11/11/13
Okay, I'm unlocking this thread for business again. A few points:

* Please don't troll or flame other users. Having a discussion/disagreement is fine, but don't intentionally antagonize each other. I've deleted a bunch of posts from here that fell into that trend (along with replies, even if those weren't antagonistic, because they didn't make sense without the trigger posts).

* If you want to take it to PM as individuals, feel free. Also, if you need to block someone from your PM due to an argument, go to https://www.crunchyroll.com/acct/?action=inbox and add the username to your blocked list. If they're your buddy, they can still post to your Guestbook, however.

* I'm moving this to Extended Discussions, which is set up for more "deep thought" type stuff of this nature.

* If you have any questions, please PM me.

-Makoto
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Posted 11/10/13
my speech pattern is considered to be formal and politically correct but it is at the same time considered ghetto if its for informal purposes.

yes it is very controlling but i do find people would more likely respect you if you use it, thought it may be the controlling aspect. i believe in difference but at the same time in unity. so i can't say im am anti pc but its simpler put to just say that there is a time and place for everything.
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Posted 11/11/13 , edited 11/11/13
It doesn't matter if a particular person means something in a non-offensive way, the reason the terms are offensive is because they were used as a derogative historically, and still are used offensively today. For someone who has only ever known one African-American in his life, the concept might be difficult to understand. The so-called "PC" terms are purposefully meant to be an alternative break with loaded words which have a largely offensive history behind them. if you call someone a "faggot" for example, no one cares if you claim you are jokingly trying to call them a bundle of sticks. The term was used in an extreme derogatory sense and is still generally viewed that way, so anyone who knows of it could be offended by it, and anyone who uses it is DEFINITELY aware of its more derogative meaning. In many places, the word "black" is an extremely loaded term because of its undeniable roots in slavery, discrimination, and sub-human treatment of people of African descent in American. Additionally, it is a label made up by "white" people used to discriminate against people of any African descent (it is a social distinction which has little to do with actual skin color and includes all skin tones, including albinos), and its historical acceptance has changed through the ages, but the important thing is how the community who is labeled views it. For most people, even if they don't have a problem with the term themselves, it still brings up connotations of slavery, being treated as sub-human, abused, and discriminated against in both subtle and blatant ways.

Some people don't care about being offensive and not all loaded words offend everyone, but if you do care about how certain terms make other people feel, you should make a little effort to be aware of loaded terms and avoid them. Many people don't have a problem with "black" at all, so if you are unsure how you should refer to someone, you should just ask how they identify themselves. If you don't know, PC terms usually (but not always) provide the safest and least offensive way to label someone. Ignorance of the history and "not getting the big deal" are not excuses in this age of wikipedia. To say that people should not find offense at your using what they believe is a derogatory term just because you yourself don't see the big deal is truly ignorant.

The "Veiled Allusions" point is true, but it's not true that it gives "special attention". Actually, the need for any labels to begin with already has pushed people into the "different" category, so using a PC term instead of another loaded term doesn't make things MORE separated, just slightly less offensive.

Also, the "loser" label can be fine, for adults who understand that that's only about a game, but it is an especially dangerous label for children, and many studies have shown that such a simple thing as change of terms has a profound effect on how a child who doesn't yet understand the concept of "just a game" views themselves in the future (google something like "labeling children"). Labels and the ideas attached to them can cause real, lasting harm to people, and it's not as simple as to say "get over it" or "I don't mean it that way even if other people do". These are just a cop-outs for people who want to make excuses for their callousness and prejudices.
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Posted 11/11/13 , edited 11/11/13

dirty_soap_dish wrote:
Personally, I detest the idea of PC. It's a way for the far left wingers to control what you say and how you should say it.
The most glaring and condescending example is calling a black person "African-American". First of all, it implies that there is something wrong with the word "black", which most of us know is a crock.


Well... they're not black though. So it's kinda inaccurate. And many take offense to the word, which is why many choose not to use that word out of consideration for others.
I don't see how "african-american" is so condescending.



dirty_soap_dish
Secondly, I only met one person in my entire life who was black and had dual American and African (Nigerian) citizenship.


That's not what "africanamerican" means, though. It just means they're an american citizen of african descent. Which is a far more accurate description.



dirty_soap_dish wrote:
That person, a former boss of mine, was literally African-American. No one calls me an Austrian-Italian American. I'm white. No big deal.

Not for you, no. But white history and black history are two quite different things, with vastly different cultural baggage.
Surely you understand that?



dirty_soap_dish wrote:
Having said this, I consider myself quite liberal, both socially and economically. But all these soccer moms who believe that everyone deserves a trophy, even the tournament losers, is ridiculous. No. Only the winners deserve accolades.


What does that even mean? Can you explain?




dirty_soap_dish wrote:
That's the point of an award. And again, I'd feel even more humiliated by a loss if someone handed me a trophy that said, "LAST PLACE!". (Believe it or not, this is a true practice....a product of the upper-middle class.)


How is this even comparable to the subject matter in your mind?
Who is the winner? Who is the loser?
Are the black people the losers? The crippled people?





As for my own personal opinion on PC, it is indeed a tool for mind control. Which is a bad thing.
But on the other hand, it CAN also be a tool for making things better. Just look at how it is for gay people. Discrimination against gay people, or any minority really, is frowned upon. Politically incorrect. Thus, it doesn't happen as often.
In these cases, it's a good thing. A way of forcing progress and reason upon the dipshit morons who are stuck in the past if you will...
Then of course, it can have the exact opposite effect, when it results in people not seriously addressing real and pressing issue.
Like it has with islam and muslim immigrants in Scandinavia...

All in all, it has its good aspects and its bad aspects. Fundamentally I am against it, but I can't deny the good things it has done either.
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Posted 11/10/13

Kubrah wrote:

What pisses me off about the "African-American" title most is that every "African American" I know addresses themselves as being 'black'. Another politically correct title that I hate is "Happy Holidays". If it's Christmas and you're going around saying "Happy Holidays" you're implying that it would be wrong to just say "Merry Christmas". As if it weren't blatantly obvious that that was the holiday you're celebrating. What's the point?


Other holidays happen around the same time and not everyone actually celebrates Christmas. To be sensitive to others beliefs, it is better to say Happy Holidays than just assume they celebrate Christmas.
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Posted 11/11/13
No one is controlling how you say shit. Go ahead and say want you want, just don't complain when people say you look like a douche bag because then you'll be "controlling" what they are saying. Bitchy whining everywhere. Sounds like what far left wingers does.
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Posted 11/11/13

Political correctness is tyranny with manners.
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Posted 11/12/13 , edited 11/12/13

FlyinDumpling wrote:

No one is controlling how you say shit. Go ahead and say want you want, just don't complain when people say you look like a douche bag because then you'll be "controlling" what they are saying. Bitchy whining everywhere. Sounds like what far left wingers does.


Isn't this a bit contradictory?
You say no one is controlling how you say things.
You follow with you can say what you want.
You qualify it with the idea that you are not able to complain about people complaining about you.
Then you say that complaining about people complaining about you is "controlling" what they are saying.

Using this then, it means you are saying, complaining about other people is "Controlling" them in the last line.

Either this applies to both sides, and people are controlling how you say things, contrary to the first statement, or it is not true and neither is controlling how one says things.

Incidentally, I would say it's only controlling when complaints are backed with threats of force, or when using the power of a majority; the dissenting minority, i.e. the individual, is shouted down, or legislated against, which just so happens to be exactly what political correctness is ultimately intended to do.
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Posted 11/12/13
I thinks it's ironic how the majority you are referring to are the real minorities. The freedom to complain doesn't stop the moment you say something offensive and get called out for being an asshole.
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Posted 11/12/13 , edited 11/12/13

FlyinDumpling I thinks it's ironic how the majority you are referring to are the real minorities. The freedom to complain doesn't stop the moment you say something offensive and get called out for being an asshole.


Actually the majority I referred to is just that, a majority, not any specific group, by definition a majority can't be a minority. I'm not using minority or majority the way it usually is, to refer to supposed victim groups and what they see as an oppressor.

Of course the freedom to complain doesn't stop when you get called an asshole, so we're basically agreeing there.

Humans as social animals, however, can be figuratively beaten down, ostracized and oppressed by a larger group by making them pariahs in the group's community, even if only through words and no physical force, they will essentially be no different than prisoners.

For example imagine a registered sex offender, who molested a child, in a suburban neighborhood. Do you really believe he could ever live a normal life as the other people in the neighborhood do, and he would be free to participate in the activities available, or that he would be able to associate with anyone in that neighborhood. Even people who aren't opposed to associating with that individual otherwise are highly unlikely to choose to do so. Because they will be ostracized alongside him, even including their family and children.

This is especially true in modern times where it's nigh impossible to fully separate oneself from society, and continue to survive and even thrive in comparison to ancient times.

That's what political correctness is about, changing a culture so that disagreement with an established dogma becomes a moral sin, thus justifying the suppression of dissenters from successful participation in society, in turn suppressing the opportunity to express those ideas even without legislation directly restricting it.
Posted 11/12/13
Personally I'm about what makes people feel comfortable and what they prefer to be referred to. If somebody tells you that they prefer a certain term, especially a group that is oppressed in our society, and you refuse to use that term because you think political correctness is ridiculous or can't bothered with or ~suppressing your freedom of speech~ than you are just a bad human being.
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Posted 11/12/13 , edited 11/12/13

kardonius wrote:


FlyinDumpling I thinks it's ironic how the majority you are referring to are the real minorities. The freedom to complain doesn't stop the moment you say something offensive and get called out for being an asshole.
Actually the majority I referred to is just that, a majority, not any specific group, by definition a majority can't be a minority. I'm not using minority or majority the way it usually is, to refer to supposed victim groups and what they see as an oppressor.

Of course the freedom to complain doesn't stop when you get called an asshole, so we're basically agreeing there.

Humans as social animals, however, can be figuratively beaten down, ostracized and oppressed by a larger group by making them pariahs in the group's community, even if only through words and no physical force, they will essentially be no different than prisoners.

For example imagine a registered sex offender, who molested a child, in a suburban neighborhood. Do you really believe he could ever live a normal life as the other people in the neighborhood do, and he would be free to participate in the activities available, or that he would be able to associate with anyone in that neighborhood. Even people who aren't opposed to associating with that individual otherwise are highly unlikely to choose to do so. Because they will be ostracized alongside him, even including their family and children.

This is especially true in modern times where it's nigh impossible to fully separate oneself from society, and continue to survive and even thrive in comparison to ancient times.

That's what political correctness is about, changing a culture so that disagreement with an established dogma becomes a moral sin, thus justifying the suppression of dissenters from successful participation in society, in turn suppressing the opportunity to express those ideas even without legislation directly restricting it.
Edit: this is why I should never use the internet to convey sarcasm v
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Posted 11/12/13 , edited 11/12/13

FlyinDumpling I read that.

Awesome, thanks for your patience.

[Edit] ^ Don't worry, I got that ^
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Posted 12/8/13
i completely agree with you. Often, i'm much more offended or at least put off by overly PC people, as their... excessive cautiousness shows their uncomfort of differences and thus comes off as racist (at least that's how i tend to see it)

i'm not saying they ARE, but being SOOOOO sensitive means they're seeing us/them/other people, or whatever as DIFFERENT. We are all people, sure we MAY come from different places, have different cultures, and look different, but to focus and be so sensitive to the inferred differences people may/may not have based on skincolour, what they look like, what they're wearing, eating etcetc,.. really makes me wary about them.
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Posted 6/22/14
Been a while since anyone posted here, but a new thread was started over at http://www.crunchyroll.com/forumtopic-855185/political-correctness if you wish to continue the discussion.
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