First  Prev  1  2  3  Next  Last
Female Anime Fans' View on Perfect Anime Women
8121 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
21 / F / qtπ
Offline
Posted 11/12/13

kotomikun wrote:

Does she actually, canonically, have or want any purpose in life that doesn't revolve around him?


As a manga reader I can give you an honest, emphatic no.
Posted 11/12/13 , edited 11/12/13

kirika202 wrote:
not characters like Tohru from Fruits basket who is what I hate the most in a female: submissive, and gullible.... plus extremely cute and kind. People like that are fakes and I can't stand them in real life and in fantasy.


(Both anime and manga version, but mostly manga) I personally find Tohru to be opposite of many things you said about her. She's cute, and very kind, gentle and loving it is true. However, she is not submissive nor gullible (in most things for the latter).

Tohru is kind, soft spoken almost always, and compassionate...But that does not make her submissive. She stands up to others, and says what she things in her own way, albeit in a very polite manner. She's very strong, and it is her who comforts the family, helps them change, heals them, and is their rock. You don't have to swing a sword, shout and be abrasive or outspoken to be un-submissive. Strength comes in all shapes and sizes, and is many times found in quietness, politeness and kindness.

As for being gullible...Tohru IS naive about many things, and yet she's extremely perceptive and understanding at the same time - and this only increases as she gets older. She nurtures the Sohma family and her friends, and understands how they are feeling. Her wise words are not judgmental, but they stand strong for a certain point of view. She knows there are severe problems in the Sohma family, but she's tactful enough not to force her own opinions on how they should handle situations, and kind enough to offer unbiased advice.

Tohru would only be a fake if she did all things things only outwardly, and for the benefit of appearing nice to others. But that's not what she does. She's all these things on the inside where it counts, and that is reflected in her conduct, actions and treatment of others on the outside. How on earth does that make her fake?

Tohru does have faults some of which are 1) the fact that she has a devastatingly low self-opinion of herself, 2) that she struggles to realize that she must let her mother's death go, and find happiness and love for herself, 3) that she has to stand up for things that she wants...etc.

I would love to have a friend like Tohru in my life - someone who is genuine like she is, and not just a reflection of how others want someone to be, or being nice to appear good to others.

I'm not arguing with you or anything - I just can't get why you'd think Tohru was those things you said. I can understand she might be really annoying to some, but to say she's submissive and gullible? And fake?

There are a lot of anime characters like that, but Tohru? No.
Posted 11/12/13

kdroberts wrote:


kotomikun wrote:

Does she actually, canonically, have or want any purpose in life that doesn't revolve around him?


As a manga reader I can give you an honest, emphatic no.


I haven't read the manga, but I definitely get that impression from the anime. I don't like her much because of that.
71056 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
27 / M / USA
Offline
Posted 11/13/13 , edited 11/13/13
I made a post about Mikasa in the other thread; I wanted to add to the discussion without weighing in on this particular thread since I'm a guy (maybe I think to much, but anyway).

Please keep this thread going; it's been very interesting and I don't mean to interrupt.
22408 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
24 / M / CR Forums
Offline
Posted 11/13/13 , edited 11/13/13
Now what type of Perfect women we talking about here? Are we talking about the large breasted, submissive, naive, brides-in-training that our Generic blue-haired male-audience fill in character often gets?

Or are we talking about the kind, unsocial, misunderstood, brown-haired female-audience fill in characters that fall in love with the absurdly naive, overpowered, extremely nice, understanding, and incredibly sexy blue-haired perfect guy's tend to fall for?

I think those are both horrible, and far from perfect.


Insomnist wrote:

I made a post about Mikasa in the other thread; I wanted to add to the discussion without weighing in on this particular discussion since I'm a guy (maybe I think to much, but anyway).

Please keep this thread going; it's been very interesting and I don't mean to interrupt.


You're right, this thread has some amazing discussion going on! As Insomnist already posted about elsewhere, Mikasa is far from a flat character. I'll agree on all of those points he brought up and I was planning on saying it myself before I reached the post he so eloquently posted.

To add on to the Mikasa thoughts here. Mikasa's love for Eren is seen as more a flaw than a benefit.

The reason Mikasa protecting Eren is seen as bad, is because Eren is a bad character, not Mikasa.


kirika202 wrote:

I don't pay attention to female characters...or male characters. I pay attention to the story and how the characters fit in it regardless of the gender. Having said that, I avoid stupid shows with harems, ecchi and all those shows that have women as a sex symbol rather than as an equal.


You don't pay attention to the characters sex or gender? That's rather important you know, it is an identifier. It's something that people and these characters ARE. You can't ignore someones gender no more than you can ignore someones ethnicity. It's a part of the characters.

To continue on.
Sex Symbol or Equal? No middle or tilted ground here?

A lot of shows from the 80's tend to have amazing stories and characters, but ignore and belittle it's female characters. Fist of the North Star's female cast has proven intelligent and strong, while being completely dependent on men. One of the recurring themes insists that Women are supposed to be selfish and focus on improving their own lives, while men should be selfless and work to help others.

It's a rather sexists view on things, but Japan isn't known as the most progressive of nations when it comes to gender equality, and this is a product of the 80's. I would like you to also keep in mind how the roles aren't inherently bad, but the implications are.

Then you have Mobile Suit Gundam's Sayla, who might actually be my pick for a perfect anime woman. She's not only strong and independent, she knows general role of women at the time, and defies it
In one particular scene that comes to mind, Sayla steals the Gundam to pilot herself, instead of the boy-hero usual. She of course, fails at piloting it in battle, but it's her first day in a Mecha ok?
When the battle is over she's brought before Captain Bright Noa who questions her actions. Sayla responds that she's tierd of men always being on the front lines, and wanted to prove a woman can be just as useful as a man, but she learned her lesson and isn't going to try it again.
The Captain thinks it's a reasonable response, and tells her to think about what she did.

Now in reality, she stole the robot to sneak a message in to her brother, the infamous Char Aznable. The whole "Women being inferior to Men" thing a complete lie, one the male captain totally fell for. Oh, and the message wasn't "I love you brother, we shouldn't have to fight on opposite sides of the war." it was a "Look bro, you're being evil right now. If you don't stop being evil, I'ma have to put a bullet in yah, so stop it."
Char on the other hand, had the classic "I can't fight my younger sister!" problems going on.

Mobile Suit Zeta Gundam even plays around with the whole thing, 5 out of the 7 pilots are female, and the guys give a comment how women somehow replaced all the men on the battlefield.

The more complex anime don't have the luxury of "simple boob's and leg's" characters. You can have strong women who ARE sex symbols, that's a thing. Cowboy Bebop and Full Metal Alchemist have a few of those.

Various characters don't have to be equals to be good character, gender relevant or not.


If you guys want to talk about a horrible female character, look at Yoko Littner from Gurren Lagann. Of the entire cast, she was the weakest character. She has an entire episode devoted to her being jealous of the new girl. Mikasa might be devoted to Eren, but she ain't a walking pair of boobs with relationship problems.
75432 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
49 / F / Center of the Uni...
Offline
Posted 11/13/13 , edited 11/13/13
Most of them don't pass the bechtel test. Not even Mikasa ackerman.


Felstalker wrote:

If you guys want to talk about a horrible female character, look at Yoko Littner from Gurren Lagann. Of the entire cast, she was the weakest character. She has an entire episode devoted to her being jealous of the new girl. Mikasa might be devoted to Eren, but she ain't a walking pair of boobs with relationship problems.


Ack! (hides avatar)
15327 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
40 / M / Minnesota, USA
Offline
Posted 11/13/13
I'm honestly surprised that this got to two pages before the guys hijacked it.
42447 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
25 / F / New Jersey, USA
Offline
Posted 11/13/13

papagolfwhiskey wrote:

Most of them don't pass the bechtel test. Not even Mikasa ackerman.


Felstalker wrote:

If you guys want to talk about a horrible female character, look at Yoko Littner from Gurren Lagann. Of the entire cast, she was the weakest character. She has an entire episode devoted to her being jealous of the new girl. Mikasa might be devoted to Eren, but she ain't a walking pair of boobs with relationship problems.


Ack! (hides avatar)



Ouch!
29767 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
28
Offline
Posted 11/13/13

Insomnist wrote:

I made a post about Mikasa in the other thread; I wanted to add to the discussion without weighing in on this particular thread since I'm a guy (maybe I think to much, but anyway).

Please keep this thread going; it's been very interesting and I don't mean to interrupt.


It's an interesting theory, but I don't really see the show itself hinting at any of that. She doesn't seem to get any development beyond that literally instantaneous transformation sparked by Eren. The show never really suggests that her devotion to Eren is bad, or that there's any deeper reason to it than her inevitable crush on him.

You said yourself that you may be reading too much into things. I feel like a lot of people want to like Mikasa, because she's tough and not girly and doesn't fight in a bikini; but once you try to dig a bit deeper, it's hard to find anything else to like about her.

Sudden topic shift: Any non-male people have any thoughts about the girls in Nagi no Asukara? They all seem awfully ineffectual to me, but that may just be my imagination...it's kind of bizarre, really, since the author is a woman.
36322 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
25 / F / Where am I?
Offline
Posted 11/13/13
I've noticed that it seemed like in more shounen anime the girls usually are the bustier and dimwitted types. Not saying that all of them are. Those are the types that annoy me. It's like they're just there to be there, like they're filling space. I prefer more of the girls from shoujo anime. They seem more relatable and have substance.
Posted 11/13/13
As a female anime fan..I want my female characters to be strong and smart. Like..Maya Natsume. I don't mind the male fan service ..if the female is smart and strong ..but I hate female characters who are weak..or tsundere. Same goes for male characters.

Bottom line... if you look good..there better be some substance there, the female character needs to be more than bouncy boobs and big blank eyes.
24641 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
21 / M
Online
Posted 11/13/13
I'm going to post the thoughts of a girl I knew regarding this subject:

In general she thinks that stereotypical women are kind of annoying, but doesn't hate a character that occasionally shows these traits. Her favorite female character (in general) is Misaka. She believes that with Misaka, the character is truly herself despite appearing with some stereotypical traits. That women shouldn't fall into stereotypes just to fit in, but also they shouldn't actively defy it to a point they only identify themselves as opposite of society.

(If you couldn't guess I got to know her because she was also an Index fan)
3169 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
F
Offline
Posted 11/13/13
To be the ideal female character, she must be:

- mentally strong
- intelligent
- loyal towards comrads
- worthy of respect and leadership

and must not be:
-promiscuous
- ditzy



Examples: Mikasa Ackermon (Attack on Titan), Balalika (Black Lagoon), Riza Hawkeye (FMA), Saber (Fate), etc.


Posted 11/13/13 , edited 11/13/13

Felstalker wrote:

You don't pay attention to the characters sex or gender? That's rather important you know, it is an identifier. It's something that people and these characters ARE. You can't ignore someones gender no more than you can ignore someones ethnicity. It's a part of the characters.



Why does it matter if someone is a girl, a boy, mexican or english? personality matters to me, I will not dislike or like someone just because it is a boy/girl or because of his/her ethnicity. I'm not saying I'm "ignoring" their gender, it's more along the lines of "I don't care for the character's gender or ethnicity, I care for their personality and what they bring to the story" . I will not 'fangirl' over a character just because he is hot, if the character is dull for me, he doesn't matter.




To continue on.
Sex Symbol or Equal? No middle or tilted ground here?


How can you be an equal while remaining not completely equal? or you meant to say both things at the same time, like being an equal AND a sex symbol?

I'm a huge fan of the Gundam series, they weren't in mind when I mentioned "sex symbols" I was referring to what I wrote before ie. "ecchi" and "harem" animes. Those animes that show dumb, innocent women with huge boobs and sexy bodies....and that's all there is to those characters.

I don't mind sexy girls with strong personalities like Faye Valentine, that's completely different to being a 'sex symbol' and the difference lays in the fact that the anime doesn't focus on her boobs only, we can see her struggles and how she overcomes them, plus she can defend herself exceptionally and excels at many things. The team will not be the same without her and this means that, while they are not equals for obvious reasons, she is equal for them.



puellapeanut wrote:


kirika202 wrote:
not characters like Tohru from Fruits basket who is what I hate the most in a female: submissive, and gullible.... plus extremely cute and kind. People like that are fakes and I can't stand them in real life and in fantasy.


(Both anime and manga version, but mostly manga) I personally find Tohru to be opposite of many things you said about her. She's cute, and very kind, gentle and loving it is true. However, she is not submissive nor gullible (in most things for the latter).

Tohru is kind, soft spoken almost always, and compassionate...But that does not make her submissive. She stands up to others, and says what she things in her own way, albeit in a very polite manner. She's very strong, and it is her who comforts the family, helps them change, heals them, and is their rock. You don't have to swing a sword, shout and be abrasive or outspoken to be un-submissive. Strength comes in all shapes and sizes, and is many times found in quietness, politeness and kindness.

As for being gullible...Tohru IS naive about many things, and yet she's extremely perceptive and understanding at the same time - and this only increases as she gets older. She nurtures the Sohma family and her friends, and understands how they are feeling. Her wise words are not judgmental, but they stand strong for a certain point of view. She knows there are severe problems in the Sohma family, but she's tactful enough not to force her own opinions on how they should handle situations, and kind enough to offer unbiased advice.

Tohru would only be a fake if she did all things things only outwardly, and for the benefit of appearing nice to others. But that's not what she does. She's all these things on the inside where it counts, and that is reflected in her conduct, actions and treatment of others on the outside. How on earth does that make her fake?

Tohru does have faults some of which are 1) the fact that she has a devastatingly low self-opinion of herself, 2) that she struggles to realize that she must let her mother's death go, and find happiness and love for herself, 3) that she has to stand up for things that she wants...etc.

I would love to have a friend like Tohru in my life - someone who is genuine like she is, and not just a reflection of how others want someone to be, or being nice to appear good to others.

I'm not arguing with you or anything - I just can't get why you'd think Tohru was those things you said. I can understand she might be really annoying to some, but to say she's submissive and gullible? And fake?

There are a lot of anime characters like that, but Tohru? No.



I admire your way of looking at a character and how you defend them. Maybe I have encountered many people who act like her and they always end up stabbing you in the back that I just can't stand the 100% goody goody characters because they are not real in my world. (I'm judging the anime, I have not read the manga)....she sounds too perfect to be real XD shy, quiet, kind but strong willed and somehow, magical when she touches other people's lives... I watched the anime and I could only get annoyed by her.

You might love, deeply love this other character I can't stand for the same reasons: Yuki from Uraboku, he's like a "Tohru" male version.

BTW, I LOVE Sakura =) she's adorable! then again, she became my favorite character when I was 13....
42447 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
25 / F / New Jersey, USA
Offline
Posted 11/13/13
What I like in a female character:

Kindness/Loyalty/Caring
Strong-willed
Assertive/Independent
Tough/Ballsy/Aggressive
Humorous
Beautiful in mind/body/spirit
Feminine charms
Calm/patient
Intelligence

What I don't want in a female character:

Whiny
Weak
Bitchy for no reason/arrogant
Slutty
Lack common sense/stupid


I love Euphemia from Code Geass.



First  Prev  1  2  3  Next  Last
You must be logged in to post.