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Ugh, another God discussion
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28 / M / The centroid of a...
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Posted 1/28/08 , edited 1/28/08

Dark_Flubba wrote:
1. When I called you ignorant, I meant that you would not accept any other idea's except your own.

Except ignorant doesn't mean arrogant, ignorant means ignorant, which is not what you say you meant.
but...that's just a technicality, good to clear that up. Disregard this in the argument.


Dark_Flubba wrote:
2. No actually I was implying that fact that you believe you know it all, while you have never been a Christian you still seem to talk as if you have been one and talk as if it's not worthy of anyone to be come Christian nor is any religion that is what I was implying.

How can you criticize me for something you're doing yourself (believing you/christians know it all)
Also, I do not need to be a Christian to object to being a Christian, just like I dont need to be a Nazi to object to being a Nazi.


Dark_Flubba wrote:
An easier solution, you talk about you reading 1500+ pages of religion, who's to say it wasn't completely biased?

Keep this thought in mind.

Dark_Flubba wrote:
But hey who know's right? So, my answer is, go read the Bible, there's reasoning.

Remember the thought I said to keep in mind?


Dark_Flubba wrote:
Christian teachings are based on God.

Christians think Christian teachings are based on God.


Dark_Flubba wrote:
Once again I ask what do you know about Christian teachings, for the third time I believe.

Christian teachings include
1. Love thy neighbor. (Which no one follows, they might make a facade for it, but deep down, they dont)
2. Do not kill. (lol..I shouldn't even need to bring up how people have not followed this)
3. God is just and wise. (please refer to what I quoted above on God and human traits)
4. God loves you. (I find is hard to believe a being so far superior to us loves us, and if he did love us, would not make us suffer)


Dark_Flubba wrote:
Your posts seem to have one simple meaning, that God is not real because we made him up to escape our problems. Well let me ask you, what causes problems? Why are there problems?

Problems are a nature occurrence. They are simply the events that we find unpleasant.


Dark_Flubba wrote:
Problems = Evil correct?

Actually Suffering = Evil
Problems = inevitability.


Dark_Flubba wrote:
Why isn't the world fully corrupted? Why are people nice, kind, compassionate, these virtues cannot come from evil, then why hasn't evil consumed everyone?

1. People are nice, kind, compassionate because of
a) a guilty conscious
b) fear of going to hell
2. You are assuming good and evil exists (under the pretext of God)
3. You are assuming this 'evil' has not already consumed everyone.


Dark_Flubba wrote:
The world is full of problems and we just wan't to escape correct? So we use a 'fake being' to escape our problems? But if it's a fake being then nothing should change, correct? After all it is fake, what can something that is 'fake' do anything.

Ever heard of the placebo effect?
People dont need this 'fake' thing to do anything, they can do it themselves. They just need a mental image of security to comfort themselves.


Dark_Flubba wrote:
Let me ask you why have people died for something that is fake? Why do people go through persecution day after day for something that is purely made up?

People are stubborn, they will die for their beliefs, but that in no way shape or form makes those beliefs right.


Dark_Flubba wrote:
Why does the majority of the world believe in a God, we must all be wrong except for Aethiests which believe a God is purely wrong and false. If so then let me come back to your example of Nazi's, they believed Hitler as a God, but there is no such thing as a God, so they believed in something that is unreal and false but used these 'false' accusations and beliefs to slaughter innocent lives? Which comes back to my point that this is caused by evil, which means evil should have dominated the world and the world should be no more, but why are we still here? Debating about this?

Hitler was a powerful political leader, but he was hardly considered a God.
Actually, you just contradicted yourself, lemme quote your sentences and put them together.



But if it's a fake being then nothing should change, correct? After all it is fake, what can something that is 'fake' do anything.




Nazi's, they believed Hitler as a God, but there is no such thing as a God, so they believed in something that is unreal and false but used these 'false' accusations and beliefs to slaughter innocent lives?

Also, you are assuming just because Evil has dominated the world, we would not be here.


Dark_Flubba wrote:
But we care for everything we do or we wouldn't do it. So therefore we are all fools and some more so than others.

I never refuted what you said, I just said it really doesn't matter. Now can we stop talking about this pointless technicality?



Dark_Flubba wrote:
If he can do anything, then he can simply give us perfection and free will in a way we cannot understand. Why do must we understand it or must it be logical for us to make it be? If God he can do anything as you said, so why not this? Why can't he do everything and anything in a way we don't understand.


He can, that's exactly what I'm saying.
And if he does exist, I believe he has done everything in a way we cannot understand.
But Christians claim to understand it, which I find to be absurd.
You probably agree with me on these issues, but you see something against Christianity and you instantly refute it to defend your religion. That's the problem with religion, it rarely looks at what is important, it just looks at names and kill each other for their differences.
----------------------------------------------------------
As for a clarification on my own beliefs.
Looking at the cosmological argument, it is likely that 'something' existed before our universe, and was the cause of our universe.
This existence however, was unlikely to be this "God" Christians believe, it is probably more of an 'event'. Do I believe God exists? That depends on your definition of God.
If you define God as an idea in people's head that give solace. Then yes, I believe God exists.
If you define God as an unknown event that was the original cause of our universe. The yes, I believe God exists.
If you define God as a being out of a magical fairy tale that 'magically' created us all and is a gentle and loving being that's constantly looking out for us in the heavens. Then no, I dont think such a God exists.
---------

PS: This is getting way off topic, I'm making a new thread.
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26 / M / Sydney, Australia
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Posted 1/28/08
Good idea.

Because the more you rant, the more you're convincing me that he either doesn't exist, or just doesn't care as much as people would like to think.



So, my answer is, go read the Bible, there's reasoning.


You have GOT to be kidding...................................................................................................................................................................................................................



Your posts seem to have one simple meaning, that God is not real because we made him up to escape our problems.


You know, no one has said anything close to saying that God does not exist. More so the "facts" that people have come to believe in relation to this all-powerful "God".



Let me ask you why have people died for something that is fake? Why do people go through persecution day after day for something that is purely made up?


Because people seek purpose and meaning to everything, it is in their nature (the fact that some may be lazy doesn't mean anything) to be curious. If they stumble upon something that looks good, they're off. That's why different cultures exist, as do cults, religion and other things that they've grown to believe is true.
Your Nazi example doesn't say anything except agree on how people can be led to believe things that are "wrong". Ironic that you're arguing about Christianity being "right" or Atheists being "wrong even though they think they're right" and saying that at the same time. While were at it, what is evil? What is wrong? What is right? Who judges that?
Which leads to:


If he can do anything, then he can simply give us perfection and free will in a way we cannot understand. Why do must we understand it or must it be logical for us to make it be? If God he can do anything as you said, so why not this? Why can't he do everything and anything in a way we don't understand.


If having a 11 year old girl get raped and then buried alive was something that is "right" but is beyond our understanding, then fuck understanding it. If making something able to do something like that is what God wanted, then that is fucked.



god was sacrificing this child as a way to show others the light. much as he did his own child. what a beautiful gift he has given us.

Source: http://duggmirror.com/comedy/100_Greatest_Quotes_from_fundamentalist_christian_chat_rooms/

From hearing that, I don't care what's true, I don't want to be associated with a sick fuck like this guy.

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Posted 1/28/08

Gabcom wrote:

If having a 11 year old girl get raped and then buried alive was something that is "right" but is beyond our understanding, then fuck understanding it. If making something able to do something like that, then that is fucked.



Troubling, isn't it? Not only the statement but the method of argument. They might go on and on about how benevolent God is (or any number of other things), but, when confronted with an idea that genuinely challenges this concept, they fall back on such cliches as "God works in mysterious ways." The only other place this style of argument is accepted is in positions of power when leaders tell their people that they basically don't have to explain or justify what they're doing, i.e. just trust us because we say so. But at least we know those leaders exist.

Also, excalion, could you link back to the original thread?
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30 / M / Australia
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Posted 1/28/08
I'm an athiest and I gave up long ago, religion defies logic.
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AHTL 
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Posted 1/28/08

riavan wrote:

I'm an athiest and I gave up long ago, religion defies logic.


Of course it does, religion requires a leap of faith.
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Posted 1/28/08

Regulus133 wrote:


Gabcom wrote:

If having a 11 year old girl get raped and then buried alive was something that is "right" but is beyond our understanding, then fuck understanding it. If making something able to do something like that, then that is fucked.



Troubling, isn't it? Not only the statement but the method of argument. They might go on and on about how benevolent God is (or any number of other things), but, when confronted with an idea that genuinely challenges this concept, they fall back on such cliches as "God works in mysterious ways." The only other place this style of argument is accepted is in positions of power when leaders tell their people that they basically don't have to explain or justify what they're doing, i.e. just trust us because we say so. But at least we know those leaders exist.

Also, excalion, could you link back to the original thread?


http://www.crunchyroll.com/showforumtopic?id=81165&pg=3
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Posted 1/28/08

excalion wrote:

PS: This is getting way off topic, I'm making a new thread.

What exactly is this new thread about? God's existence, God's nature, what? The thread just needs a better title. So PM me the info

Also, I deleted the spam posts ^^.

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Posted 1/28/08

AHTL wrote:

Of course it does, religion requires a leap of faith.


I'm going to assume you're serious, though your emphasis may have been for humorous purposes.

I don't see why people value this concept of faith so much. Perhaps you should have faith that a wildebeest is dancing in my room - do you see why simply "having faith" is not a valuable concept? Since it's based on nothing at all, consider that one could choose to believe anything with a leap of faith: God, Moloch, Zeus, etc. Why choose one above the others? Why isn't not choosing one a satisfying choice?

Religion/faith is criticized so much by logical thinkers because it does not conform to logic. You don't have to take the attacks seriously if you don't appreciate rational thought.

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Posted 1/28/08

Regulus133 wrote:


AHTL wrote:

Of course it does, religion requires a leap of faith.


I'm going to assume you're serious, though your emphasis may have been for humorous purposes.

I don't see why people value this concept of faith so much. Perhaps you should have faith that a wildebeest is dancing in my room - do you see why simply "having faith" is not a valuable concept? Since it's based on nothing at all, consider that one could choose to believe anything with a leap of faith: God, Moloch, Zeus, etc. Why choose one above the others? Why isn't not choosing one a satisfying choice?

Religion/faith is criticized so much by logical thinkers because it does not conform to logic. You don't have to take the attacks seriously if you don't appreciate rational thought.



Indeed my (lets pretend you're my friend, please??) friend

I'm more of a emotional thinker ~_~

Though I try to think logically it doesn't always work out well, just ask my friends :(
I am Lord of the Boredom and Randomness is my game.

Oh wait, sorry for unrelated writings.

I'm agnostic anyway, I failed at picking a god/goddess - there were too many to pick between.
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Posted 1/28/08
If you want to complain, debate, be atheistic in comments, please don't create a new thread just for it. There IS a Christian thread right? I'll lock this thread if it's not any different other than a new place to put very long religious rants.
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Posted 1/28/08

Faeleia wrote:

If you want to complain, debate, be atheistic in comments, please don't create a new thread just for it. There IS a Christian thread right? I'll lock this thread if it's not any different other than a new place to put very long religious rants.


Well this is actually a spin-off from another thread, we were getting offtopic so I made this one. That IS what we're supposed to do right?
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Posted 1/28/08

Faeleia wrote:

If you want to complain, debate, be atheistic in comments, please don't create a new thread just for it. There IS a Christian thread right? I'll lock this thread if it's not any different other than a new place to put very long religious rants.


I think I agree. Unfortunately, looking at the Extended Discussion section, I see multiple topics on religion that could genuinely be consolidated as they are not particularly specific, so this thread isn't the only "repeat." You seem to suggest that a Christian thread is where any atheistic/religious rant should go, though, and I certainly don't agree with that.

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76 / M / NJ, USA
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Posted 1/28/08
Bible Debate
A world without religion?
Religion: is it too controlling?
Ugh, another God discussion

lemme guess, these are all athiest inspired topics. there should be a thread that consolidates all these topics like...
Religion=Bad Athiest=Good
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Posted 1/28/08

hi.. i know im a bit young but heres my take on things... to believe in God is to have faith and hope...Faith, i believe is not a perfect knowledge of things..sooo,if you have faith...you hope for things which are not seen which are true...
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Posted 1/28/08

excalion wrote:


Faeleia wrote:

If you want to complain, debate, be atheistic in comments, please don't create a new thread just for it. There IS a Christian thread right? I'll lock this thread if it's not any different other than a new place to put very long religious rants.


Well this is actually a spin-off from another thread, we were getting offtopic so I made this one. That IS what we're supposed to do right?


Oh man, off topicness of an offtopicness. But it really seems more to me like a small group debate that wants to continue along. I suppose I'll leave this, since there ARE lots of other religious threads. Until I sort a way to deal with ALL them, this stays.

Anyway, I didn't mean that atheist comments are all to be directed there, but it's more of I can't help but feel frustrated to see that the Christian thread or Muslim thread(s) be so filled with disbelieving comments, as if it's up for people to tear apart.

Unfortunately, it's a discussion, not a debate forum, so an overflow of atheistic comments with questions bearing accordance with science and theories are just posted over and over with the intention to catch one follower, unable to answer and claim a mini-victory.

The reason the threads are there, is more for discussing about the religion itself, allow followers to find like-minded people, occasionally for brave souls to attempt answering famous theories against a particular train of thought, and so help to enlighten, rather than a rat's race of 'Can you eat this that I'm feeding you?' then stuff a guinea pig with 4 tonnes of food, overworking it till death. Then the questions repeat cos nobody bothers reading responses, but how some muslims got 'Owned!' how some Christians get 'pwned' by a 'great question'. Members here aren't trained in knowing their stuff well, so naturally some of them struggle, that's understandable.

That's how I feel about this entire spinoffs about debates. It's now more of 'how much can I discredit and disprove your ideas in everyway I can' rather than 'I hope to be enlightened, but what about these questions I have? I don't believe in your religion, but this is what I've been hearing from people.'

Hope you understood my points.
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