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Ugh, another God discussion
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Posted 1/29/08

excalion wrote:


Dark_Flubba wrote:
1. When I called you ignorant, I meant that you would not accept any other idea's except your own.

Except ignorant doesn't mean arrogant, ignorant means ignorant, which is not what you say you meant.
but...that's just a technicality, good to clear that up. Disregard this in the argument.


Dark_Flubba wrote:
2. No actually I was implying that fact that you believe you know it all, while you have never been a Christian you still seem to talk as if you have been one and talk as if it's not worthy of anyone to be come Christian nor is any religion that is what I was implying.

How can you criticize me for something you're doing yourself (believing you/christians know it all)
Also, I do not need to be a Christian to object to being a Christian, just like I dont need to be a Nazi to object to being a Nazi.


Dark_Flubba wrote:
An easier solution, you talk about you reading 1500+ pages of religion, who's to say it wasn't completely biased?

Keep this thought in mind.

Dark_Flubba wrote:
But hey who know's right? So, my answer is, go read the Bible, there's reasoning.

Remember the thought I said to keep in mind?


Dark_Flubba wrote:
Christian teachings are based on God.

Christians think Christian teachings are based on God.


Dark_Flubba wrote:
Once again I ask what do you know about Christian teachings, for the third time I believe.

Christian teachings include
1. Love thy neighbor. (Which no one follows, they might make a facade for it, but deep down, they dont)
2. Do not kill. (lol..I shouldn't even need to bring up how people have not followed this)
3. God is just and wise. (please refer to what I quoted above on God and human traits)
4. God loves you. (I find is hard to believe a being so far superior to us loves us, and if he did love us, would not make us suffer)


Dark_Flubba wrote:
Your posts seem to have one simple meaning, that God is not real because we made him up to escape our problems. Well let me ask you, what causes problems? Why are there problems?

Problems are a nature occurrence. They are simply the events that we find unpleasant.


Dark_Flubba wrote:
Problems = Evil correct?

Actually Suffering = Evil
Problems = inevitability.


Dark_Flubba wrote:
Why isn't the world fully corrupted? Why are people nice, kind, compassionate, these virtues cannot come from evil, then why hasn't evil consumed everyone?

1. People are nice, kind, compassionate because of
a) a guilty conscious
b) fear of going to hell
2. You are assuming good and evil exists (under the pretext of God)
3. You are assuming this 'evil' has not already consumed everyone.


Dark_Flubba wrote:
The world is full of problems and we just wan't to escape correct? So we use a 'fake being' to escape our problems? But if it's a fake being then nothing should change, correct? After all it is fake, what can something that is 'fake' do anything.

Ever heard of the placebo effect?
People dont need this 'fake' thing to do anything, they can do it themselves. They just need a mental image of security to comfort themselves.


Dark_Flubba wrote:
Let me ask you why have people died for something that is fake? Why do people go through persecution day after day for something that is purely made up?

People are stubborn, they will die for their beliefs, but that in no way shape or form makes those beliefs right.


Dark_Flubba wrote:
Why does the majority of the world believe in a God, we must all be wrong except for Aethiests which believe a God is purely wrong and false. If so then let me come back to your example of Nazi's, they believed Hitler as a God, but there is no such thing as a God, so they believed in something that is unreal and false but used these 'false' accusations and beliefs to slaughter innocent lives? Which comes back to my point that this is caused by evil, which means evil should have dominated the world and the world should be no more, but why are we still here? Debating about this?

Hitler was a powerful political leader, but he was hardly considered a God.
Actually, you just contradicted yourself, lemme quote your sentences and put them together.



But if it's a fake being then nothing should change, correct? After all it is fake, what can something that is 'fake' do anything.




Nazi's, they believed Hitler as a God, but there is no such thing as a God, so they believed in something that is unreal and false but used these 'false' accusations and beliefs to slaughter innocent lives?

Also, you are assuming just because Evil has dominated the world, we would not be here.


Dark_Flubba wrote:
But we care for everything we do or we wouldn't do it. So therefore we are all fools and some more so than others.

I never refuted what you said, I just said it really doesn't matter. Now can we stop talking about this pointless technicality?



Dark_Flubba wrote:
If he can do anything, then he can simply give us perfection and free will in a way we cannot understand. Why do must we understand it or must it be logical for us to make it be? If God he can do anything as you said, so why not this? Why can't he do everything and anything in a way we don't understand.


He can, that's exactly what I'm saying.
And if he does exist, I believe he has done everything in a way we cannot understand.
But Christians claim to understand it, which I find to be absurd.
You probably agree with me on these issues, but you see something against Christianity and you instantly refute it to defend your religion. That's the problem with religion, it rarely looks at what is important, it just looks at names and kill each other for their differences.
----------------------------------------------------------
As for a clarification on my own beliefs.
Looking at the cosmological argument, it is likely that 'something' existed before our universe, and was the cause of our universe.
This existence however, was unlikely to be this "God" Christians believe, it is probably more of an 'event'. Do I believe God exists? That depends on your definition of God.
If you define God as an idea in people's head that give solace. Then yes, I believe God exists.
If you define God as an unknown event that was the original cause of our universe. The yes, I believe God exists.
If you define God as a being out of a magical fairy tale that 'magically' created us all and is a gentle and loving being that's constantly looking out for us in the heavens. Then no, I dont think such a God exists.
---------

PS: This is getting way off topic, I'm making a new thread.


I have a question. I don't really care about what you believe in, but did you really start this thread about a discussion about whether God exists or is it just a wide scale argument.
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Posted 1/29/08

Ce-Soul wrote:
I have a question. I don't really care about what you believe in, but did you really start this thread about a discussion about whether God exists or is it just a wide scale argument.


I started this thread as a response to someone else in another thread. That thread wasn't on a discussion of God or religion, so this was getting off-topic to that thread. And so I made this one.

I also have a question for you, why did you quote a 2 page post if you weren't even going to talk about it? Just so you can ask me a 2 line question that doesn't have much to do about what we're talking about?
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Posted 1/29/08
i got a question now excalion, what do u hope to achieve from this thread.....im not saying im against wat ur saying though im just curious
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Posted 1/29/08

uhohimdead wrote:


zippokrlos wrote:

the thing is, at the beginning of time, god got himself a better image advisor than the devil. since then when something good happens(by the law of probability) "it's gods will", and when something bad happens "he works in mysterious ways" this is what christians say when u tell them things like "why does he allow evil?".

christians god is one of the worst god of all religions, he demands devotion and gives "hell" for those who doesn't worship him.
if i'm correct, i think christianity is the only religion with a hell. so why does many people believe in such a horrible thing, maybe it's because they need to believe in something, we all do. but don't go saying that a god who kills innocent childs everyday is a mercyful god.

if he did created us, we should all go to heaven despite our believes, and we "should" go to hell if we do things like killing people or things like that.

u know, all the christians i know are hypocrites, they go around all week doing "bad things" but on sunday they go to church and confess, that's it, all their sins are erased. that's why christianity is one of the worst religions, because it allows its followers to say "it's ok if i rape that girl, i'll confess later".

so let's see, christians: allowed to commit any sins, as long as they regret it, it's ok.
and most atheists: good people, often people with deep thoughts, they keep their minds open, not like christians who don't accept any comment about their god or believe.

u know what pisses me off, people who say atheists are evildoers who don't care about anything, it's not like that. people shouldn't be against killing because they're going to hell, they should be against it because is a terrible thing to do to another human being.


they use the whole "it's gods will" as a scapegoat cuz they dont know why and its far easier to understand if u let someone else deal with it even if it is a god. i agree with u bout the christians god being the worst....the whole concept of hell was prolly a way to keep ppl in line since there was no complex government system in place....which is an excellent use of fear back then.

humans are selfish creatures, we wont give anything(food,water,money,life) unless theres something, they think they will get in return, thats worth it. Believing in something helps keep us sane and calm even in death

if god did create us, shouldnt he know wat we will b like during our lives? if so arent we judged to go to heaven or hell b4 we r born?

i agree about the confession thing wat a load....enough said

religion is a way for somepeople to jutify thier views and sway other ppl into thinking its in their best interest. they say atheists r evil because we dont think like them or follow their path and if atheists talk to them, christians could question their faith and prolly throw it away evenually causing the collapse of the religion. i agree killing is bad.....but so long as humans want something, things like war, corruption, and killing will never disappear



Incorrect. Islam has a concept of Heaven and Hell as well.
Incorrect. Catholics subscribe to confession.

I think the concept here is (correct me if I'm wrong because I'm neither Christian nor Catholic) is that Confession is truly a time for regret. If you confess but you are only going to go out and do the same thing again, it doesn't work that way. I think the Christian God (or Catholic God or the God that they believe in) accepts confessions based on true regret. If it is insincere, as you seem to suggest, I highly doubt that God, as the embodiment of something perfect, would accept something like that.

And although I agree with what you said about it being difficult to accept a critisism of the God that a person believes in, its only understandable. Everyone will stand up for something that they believe in so deeply. And I think its a sweeping generalisation. Just because I have a faith doesn't mean I have no issues with my own religion. There are many things that I am ignorant of and many things I have yet to come to terms with. Its no use playing the blame game but I think the more you say things like 'Christians are hypocrites' the greater the backlash. It has the same effect as someone saying 'All aethists go to hell'. (Except of course, if you don't believe in a Heaven, or a Hell, that comment should not really bother you.)

Just like how you might think that people with religion (I think there's a difference between that, and religious people, yes?) don't want to understand where your coming from, the same time of frustration is coming from the people whom religions' you bash.

And if this concept of heaven and hell keeps people in check, than what is so wrong with it? Of course, it might not be done with an alturistic intention, but its sure as heck better than having people run about doing wrong things because they believe there is no punishment for it.

And personally, since I believe in a God, I believe that God is so complex that we cannot simplify Him. That is, he is above the constraints of place and time. In other words, to me, the word predestination is not applicable. To us its the future, but God transcends such constraints. He is Here and Now. I believe God gave humans intellect and free will. And humans are left to judge on their own what to do in life.

And I think people who claim 'If you don't believe in our religion you will go to hell'... That's just weak. In fact, its a contradiction of sorts. If God is the only judge then we humans should not be going around judging people. After all, hey, we might just be the ones who end up in Hell instead.

You must be aware that there have been many Christian-Aethist debate. Most of the time, neither change their views, only strengthen their own believes (oh such irony.) But I think if you were to approach a Christian in a way that suggests that you are open to learning about their religion, they will be open to debate with you. If you go into a discussion with a Christian saying: Your religion is wrong and you are stupid to believe in it, how is that going to make anyone listen seriously to what you say, let alone, change?

When God created Adam, the angels asked God why he wanted to create humans when they are only going to cause chaos in the world and disobey God, For (the Angels) are totally submissive to God. Then God taught Adam the names of the things which the Angels did not know, succeeding where they failed. Humans are endowed with more than what the Angels are. So, like the Angels, many people focus on the bad things that people do, whereas humans are capable of doing tremendous good as well. And its undeniable that religion encourages this. While its true that people do not (and SHOULD NOT) need religion to do alturistic things, there are many who do such things in the name of religion.

...Which is the essense of religion which I feel that extremists have lost.

And I do, believe that religion, is meant to be practiced on a personal level.
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Posted 1/29/08

nErdy_mEe wrote:


AHTL wrote:


riavan wrote:

I'm an athiest and I gave up long ago, religion defies logic.


Of course it does, religion requires a leap of faith.


How Gay...I take a leap of chances instead, it's my choice and no one elses.


Sounds pretty much like the same.

And *palm_face* at your choice of word.


Gay = Homosexual / Happy

Nothing bloody else! >_<
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Posted 1/29/08
I got bored after reading like 3 sentences. For all you athiests who say God isn't real or Jesus is false, please read the Bible before you talk smack about anything. And don't think attending a couple sermons in Church is enough to know about the whole religion, there are so many different things you'd have to go to church for about 10 years to get the GIST of the Bible. And if you DON'T want to read the Bible then don't talk smack and pretend like you know everything.
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Posted 1/29/08

krnsoldierofGod wrote:

I got bored after reading like 3 sentences. For all you athiests who say God isn't real or Jesus is false, please read the Bible before you talk smack about anything. And don't think attending a couple sermons in Church is enough to know about the whole religion, there are so many different things you'd have to go to church for about 10 years to get the GIST of the Bible. And if you DON'T want to read the Bible then don't talk smack and pretend like you know everything.


Funny, if you've only read 3 sentences, you wouldn't have a clue on whats going on.

On a side note, I've been brought up as a Catholic, went to a Catholic primary school and went to church every Sunday for at least 15-16 years. Since I've started to question it, I've thought about it both from a believer's point of view and an atheists point of view, and I have to say that I agree with people such as excalion (who I don't think is even atheist) on many matters in accordance to religion, one being that the Bible is highly questionable as a source of proof that the Christian God is real, or Jesus was real. Because I agree with them, am I also "pretending like I know everything"?
Truthfully, I think I learnt a lot more of the religion after I started questioning it, and began to break it down and analyze it deeply.
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Posted 1/29/08
Questioning the absolute has always been a trait of human beings... thru questioning... you will always know the answers...

ive questioned things about God too... but i didnt turn out to be an atheist... maybe i was just lucky... that i was shown the truth...
that religion is never the basis, but just knowing that God is there, il be alright.. thats why we are supposed to have faith..
total denial of a higher being is not good for me... there is always a higher being, yes they may say that there is just no way that God exists and miracles may be just circumstances and science may prove that there is no God but that is the challenge...

you pick a side and stand for it... maybe for the atheists thier truth is that there is no God but for me there is one.. i have been shown that God does exist thru my experiences, thru the people im around in... it may sound ridiculous... but i just cant truly explain... it is a feeling that no one can ever explain unless you have felt it for ur self...

and you will never understand in a logical or scientifical point of view since not all facts are true... things are not what it seems...
and science cannot and will not prove anything, they will only stay as theories never proved...

and yes, i dont base everything from the bible or any other holy book... for me those are full of flaws made by humans for humans...

Constantinople burned the other Gospels related to Jesus since they think it was blasphemous.. men will still be men and mistakes are inevitable.. even if it is a holy book...
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Posted 1/29/08

Gabcom wrote:


krnsoldierofGod wrote:

I got bored after reading like 3 sentences. For all you athiests who say God isn't real or Jesus is false, please read the Bible before you talk smack about anything. And don't think attending a couple sermons in Church is enough to know about the whole religion, there are so many different things you'd have to go to church for about 10 years to get the GIST of the Bible. And if you DON'T want to read the Bible then don't talk smack and pretend like you know everything.


Funny, if you've only read 3 sentences, you wouldn't have a clue on whats going on.

On a side note, I've been brought up as a Catholic, went to a Catholic primary school and went to church every Sunday for at least 15-16 years. Since I've started to question it, I've thought about it both from a believer's point of view and an atheists point of view, and I have to say that I agree with people such as excalion (who I don't think is even atheist) on many matters in accordance to religion, one being that the Bible is highly questionable as a source of proof that the Christian God is real, or Jesus was real. Because I agree with them, am I also "pretending like I know everything"?
Truthfully, I think I learnt a lot more of the religion after I started questioning it, and began to break it down and analyze it deeply.




if you say wow I'm starving to death, does that mean your really starving to death? no its an exageration -.-

ne way it says your 17 and it says you've been going to church 15-16 years...I don't think you'd be able to understand whats going on until your at least 9. Anyway I doubt even you've read the bible (I mean the whole bible and not a couple verses), so little christians do and its a pity. And if you did, there is no way you would understand what the Bible talks about because its a translation of hebrew and greek text so some of the meaning is out. If you did manage to learn greek and hebrew and read the original bible and still question it, go pray to God (thats if you still have faith) because I myself questioned the religion a couple times and I always answered my questions, some even years after.
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Posted 1/29/08

uhohimdead wrote:


zippokrlos wrote:

the thing is, at the beginning of time, god got himself a better image advisor than the devil. since then when something good happens(by the law of probability) "it's gods will", and when something bad happens "he works in mysterious ways" this is what christians say when u tell them things like "why does he allow evil?".

christians god is one of the worst god of all religions, he demands devotion and gives "hell" for those who doesn't worship him.
if i'm correct, i think christianity is the only religion with a hell. so why does many people believe in such a horrible thing, maybe it's because they need to believe in something, we all do. but don't go saying that a god who kills innocent childs everyday is a mercyful god.

if he did created us, we should all go to heaven despite our believes, and we "should" go to hell if we do things like killing people or things like that.

u know, all the christians i know are hypocrites, they go around all week doing "bad things" but on sunday they go to church and confess, that's it, all their sins are erased. that's why christianity is one of the worst religions, because it allows its followers to say "it's ok if i rape that girl, i'll confess later".

so let's see, christians: allowed to commit any sins, as long as they regret it, it's ok.
and most atheists: good people, often people with deep thoughts, they keep their minds open, not like christians who don't accept any comment about their god or believe.

u know what pisses me off, people who say atheists are evildoers who don't care about anything, it's not like that. people shouldn't be against killing because they're going to hell, they should be against it because is a terrible thing to do to another human being.


they use the whole "it's gods will" as a scapegoat cuz they dont know why and its far easier to understand if u let someone else deal with it even if it is a god. i agree with u bout the christians god being the worst....the whole concept of hell was prolly a way to keep ppl in line since there was no complex government system in place....which is an excellent use of fear back then.

humans are selfish creatures, we wont give anything(food,water,money,life) unless theres something, they think they will get in return, thats worth it. Believing in something helps keep us sane and calm even in death

if god did create us, shouldnt he know wat we will b like during our lives? if so arent we judged to go to heaven or hell b4 we r born?

i agree about the confession thing wat a load....enough said

religion is a way for somepeople to jutify thier views and sway other ppl into thinking its in their best interest. they say atheists r evil because we dont think like them or follow their path and if atheists talk to them, christians could question their faith and prolly throw it away evenually causing the collapse of the religion. i agree killing is bad.....but so long as humans want something, things like war, corruption, and killing will never disappear


yeah i know what you mean... some christians are like that... im a christian myself but i dont go to confessions... for me... if you confess from the heart and that you really meant it and dont do it again that will be fine... God is forgiving... but there will always be a limit... wht is the use of confessing if there is no sincerity in it??

but keep in mind that Christians are also humans....just like atheist..islam, buddist...etc... they can make mistakes...

and yes for me there is heaven and hell, so is the other religions..

about God knowing that what will be our fate.. yes God knows better... but He always gives chances...
he gives you two choices.. to take this path or this... and if you take a better path he will guide you...

it will not be easy.. but he is there... it is Gods will if it is inevitable.. but if you did it to urself... when you had known that there was a better choice in it.. it was ur own doing...

i cant really explain to you thoroughly since my experiences with him are so hard to explain... you may not belive me but i dont have to force my ideas with you... thats why it is called faith... you will never know everything... you only have the human mind...
it will never be that broad... you will never know everything despite you have the highest IQ...

some things are just so hard to explain...

its up to you to belive or not.
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Posted 1/29/08

krnsoldierofGod wrote:

ne way it says your 17 and it says you've been going to church 15-16 years...I don't think you'd be able to understand whats going on until your at least 9. Anyway I doubt even you've read the bible (I mean the whole bible and not a couple verses), so little christians do and its a pity. And if you did, there is no way you would understand what the Bible talks about because its a translation of hebrew and greek text so some of the meaning is out. If you did manage to learn greek and hebrew and read the original bible and still question it, go pray to God (thats if you still have faith) because I myself questioned the religion a couple times and I always answered my questions, some even years after.


And it says you're 15. I guess that makes you the pot and Gabcom the kettle.

At any rate, you'd be surprised to find out how many atheists were once Christian. I was one of them. Then again, you're arrogant enough to 1.) dismiss all of that as ignorance, and 2.) think that you can answer all the questions yourself, though you've certainly answered none here. I see nothing but empty criticism.

Either contribute something or leave.

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tobydiah wrote:

How do some of you insult each other about how the other doesn't know what they are talking about? You can't really prove or disprove god's existence with logic. Then someone can say that you can't believe something until it can be proven even if it can't be disproved. But religion also tends to believe in god(s) based on their faith and belief. Not logical evidence. And you can't really argue which if more valid: faith versus logic. You really can't prove either side of that debate either since logic is merely another function of the human mind to make sense of things and to seeking the truth. Logic being on a different page as faith, you can't really form a conclusive argument against faith since it's something abstract to our comprehension. So, do claim that god exists or do we claim that he doesn't? Or do we claim that we shouldn't believe in god unless we have proof? We really can't have a solid claim on either so I don't know why people are getting heated about it and telling each other off.

The people giving religion a good name are the people who don't tell off or belittle the ones that don't believe.
And the non religious people giving atheists and agnostics a good name are the ones who disagree yet respect the views and beliefs of those with religious faith.
Then there are those who look down on and insult the other, merely fueling more hostility between the two sides.

Btw. You guys can't argue using definitions and lingual loopholes to make the other person wrong. It's obvious that sometimes it's obviously not what they mean yet you're twisting their words around to suit your argument.


This guy is saying what I hve ALWAYS been saying about atheist vs Christianity threads. There is actually little to no grounds to a fight, because the tool that atheists use, having no anchor of idea of 'God', they use the next closest to an idea of God which is man-made god - science and logic. Christians and other religions use faith, which is believing in a doctrine given no particular manifested evidence.

Faith cannot exist with logic, because logic aims to prove everything to explain it with the human mind. Faith, once having the need to be tested and experimented, is not faith. 'Religious' people who try to test God to see if tithing or donation will actually reproduce the effect of being 'blessed' are simply people lacking faith. These people seek the blessings instead of the blesser. They go after the gifts without realising the gifts and the giver are one. That's why faith is difficult to place.

It's difficult to argue with Christians, because even some of them have lack of faith, or faith placed in the wrong things, like material goods, external things. Therefore, not all Christians represent the religion that they have subscribed to, because when you've believed wrongly, as scientists will tell you, when you alter the materials put to experiment, the results will differ. What matters is the compounds and make-up of the substance, not the outward appearance. Supposedly, real faith is given from God. Those who can believe and believe even without actual manifestation into the physical world does not mean that they have no proof at all. For my own experience, believing and taking that step to believe has caused me to change inwardly. The changes start from inside. Change of personality, THEN it starts to manifest into outward changes, healing, positive health, blessings.

A good way to tell a true Christian who has understood at least the main gist of what God has truly given up Jesus for, will prove themselves in their fruits. The way they speak, act, and think would reflect what their heart is like. An unbelieving heart will sooner or later reveal itself through actions out of inward abundance.

Science is all about calculations, proving with methods devised by humans themselves. Their grounds is the work of man, proving with man's ways. Man and God are not the same, similarly, the 'tools' we use aren't on equal planes. One will never find the other using one's tools. Therefore going round and round about the mulberry bush will not solve things.

The universe is bigger than man. It is impossible to prove one versus one. 'Out of the mouth of two to three witnesses shall every word be established', as it is written in the Bible. Even the Bible recognises things like justice and fairness in accounts. Without an establishing party to confirm which side is right, without a judge to litigate, the dispute remains unsolved. That is, unless God personally appears (which he says he would after all has heard of the gospels, which is after a period of earthquakes, famines, nations rising against nations) mere man cannot prove things of God.

That's why, when these two do not exist on the same plane, is the term 'leap of faith' established. Please try to understand what the true meaning of that phrase means. Christians who choose to believe in God will be able to know that God does not lie, but they have to first take that leap of faith to believe (ie. casting away their doubts and cares to God) and follow Jesus (focus on Him, not his blessings) and blessings will be added to the believer.
Posted 1/29/08

krnsoldierofGod wrote:

I got bored after reading like 3 sentences. For all you athiests who say God isn't real or Jesus is false, please read the Bible before you talk smack about anything. And don't think attending a couple sermons in Church is enough to know about the whole religion, there are so many different things you'd have to go to church for about 10 years to get the GIST of the Bible. And if you DON'T want to read the Bible then don't talk smack and pretend like you know everything.


Wow you sound like you are a truly ignorant person. You do realise that the bible has been changed to suit various MEN over the centuries right? And that it is almost certainly not God's will anymore? Oh and I will be kind, lets assume that SOME form of God exists. Ok now how the hell can you be so full of yourself and arrogant as to assume that its YOUR god. There are THOUSANDS of religions, all of them contradict each other, not one of them has any proof that their beliefs are right, therefore each one of them has an equal chance of being correct. Even if we do assume there is a God up there then the chances that it is the CHRISTIAN God up there is less than 0.01%. That means that 99.99% of everyone who believes in any sort of God HAS to be wrong and barking up the wrong tree. How can you be so stupid as to argue that something that has those kind of odds of even existing is the right thing for all humans to do with such certainty when you have no proof whatsoever, not even any credible circumstancial evidence to even suggest its your God up there. How can you be so cocky as to assume that you are right over all the other religions in the world. Oh and don't forget that in reality the odds that your God exists are even lower. After all as there is no evidence either way that means there is a 50% chance there is no God at all. Therefore you have less than a 0.01% chance of that 50%. Also if you want to be taken seriously don't write 'I got bored after reading 3 sentances'. You posted evidence that you are ill informed. Idiot.
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Posted 1/29/08

Gabcom wrote:


krnsoldierofGod wrote:

I got bored after reading like 3 sentences. For all you athiests who say God isn't real or Jesus is false, please read the Bible before you talk smack about anything. And don't think attending a couple sermons in Church is enough to know about the whole religion, there are so many different things you'd have to go to church for about 10 years to get the GIST of the Bible. And if you DON'T want to read the Bible then don't talk smack and pretend like you know everything.


Funny, if you've only read 3 sentences, you wouldn't have a clue on whats going on.

On a side note, I've been brought up as a Catholic, went to a Catholic primary school and went to church every Sunday for at least 15-16 years. Since I've started to question it, I've thought about it both from a believer's point of view and an atheists point of view, and I have to say that I agree with people such as excalion (who I don't think is even atheist) on many matters in accordance to religion, one being that the Bible is highly questionable as a source of proof that the Christian God is real, or Jesus was real. Because I agree with them, am I also "pretending like I know everything"?
Truthfully, I think I learnt a lot more of the religion after I started questioning it, and began to break it down and analyze it deeply.


I can completely understand where you're comming from. In my life, i've discovered that most (not all, but a very large majority) of catholics are people who don't deal directly with the bible, they have some sort of need to create saints and other images, and idolize Mary (jesus' mother)

If you do actually read the bible (which i have, my father is the worship director at his church) Then you see that it very clearly states, "put no god before me" and "make no graven images" Both of these rules are being violated by the catholic church.

However, the catholic church has been in power for far too many years and the catholic faith has too many followers for any one person to stand up to it and say, "Hey, we're doing this wrong"

If you read Revelations (by far my favorite book in the bible) It speaks of the seven seals that are broken in the end times. Each seal does something different to the world.

One is wild animals attacking, one is insect devouring crops, one unleashes a flood of blood (if i remember correctly - i'm at work so i don't have a bible with me to fact check, please correct me if i'm not remembering correctly)
All of the things that are detailed in Revelations as the signs of the end of the world are things that you can almost draw direct quarralations to things happening on the earth.

However, If you believe in the Bible, and follow what it says, then your faith tells you (in your heart) that we ARE living in the end times.

People who don't believe in the Bible / God.. Do the same thing as people who don't believe in Horoscopes.
The Bible, just like Horoscopes, is so non descript that anything can really almost apply to anything.

There's discussion of the three anti-christs that rise up and attempt to take over the world... well.. that could mean almost any bad guy we've had in the last 200 years!

It's all in how you take it. It's all in your beliefs.

I'm with Ahoj on this, as long as you don't shove your religion in my face, i don't care what religion you are.

But i will say a few things.

Religions all have a few basic concepts in common... so there must be SOMETHING to it..

They ALL say: Don't kill, Don't steal, Don't Lie.. (yes even confuscious (sp) )

Basic moral principles...

IMO, That's the best thing that religion has given the world. A good Moral set to live by.

It's very much up to the individual to decide for themselves if they will believe or not. And NOTHING that any one person can say should be able to change their minds. If someone is truly a believer, then your arguments will do nothing to dissuade them. They will Pray for you, because in their mind, you are a lost soul in need of enlightenment.
In your mind, the believers are radical brainwashed fools who can't see what's right in front of their faces...

Sounds similar doesn't it?


Now, please don't go and say things such as, "you don't know what your talking about" or "you've never been a believer" or any such nonsense... as i HAVE been a believer, in fact i was a very STRONG believer, However, the more about science i learned and the more about the other cultures in the world, and other religions, i've decided that I personally Don't believe in any ONE god.. I don't exactly believe in happenstance either. I also don't copmletely buy into Evolution, or creative design. I think that there's more knowledge out there, and once i find that knowledge, i will be enlightened to what the Truth is... even though many philosophers don't believe that anyone can know the one Truth, but the many truths... (i hope you understand what i mean)

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Posted 1/29/08

uhohimdead wrote:

i got a question now excalion, what do u hope to achieve from this thread.....im not saying im against wat ur saying though im just curious


A murder of time and an annihilation of my boredom?
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