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The Black Hole Theory
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33 / M / Cali
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Posted 6/23/07
well technically doesnt electricity travel at the speed of light? and since the internet is just electrical signals, then wouldnt the internet be travelling at the speed of light?
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37 / F / Fort Meade, MD
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Posted 6/23/07
^ he was asking if it was FASTER than the speed of light... and it may travel as fast.. but those electrical impulses need to be read and displayed for any kind of information to be transferred..
And i'm not sure if electricity travels at the speed of light or not... have to look into that... getting too tired to think about it anyway.. think i'm gonna crash now. ::yawns:: g'night all
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Posted 6/23/07

SenbonzakuraMaster wrote:

^thats what I also suggested duster. Because the assumption is that a black hole can have any mass. As i`ve said in ealier posts. The only issue is that constant rate in which the event horizon being equivalent to a super mass black hole apply. I also began to realize that a black hole also must have a limit to its expansion. Believing that nothing is constant in the universe as of now ( which defeats my idea of matter being a constant).
Even if we could make a contained black hole (impossible) that would mean we would have the energy of the reactions to a Super nova implosion.


I don't understand what you're saying about black holes not having mass. The general relativity interpretation says that there isn't any volume, because it is condensed into a single point (singularity) but I have never heard anything about no mass.

In regards to earlier posts Hawking Radiation is heat energy that is released, though this is only in the quantum/string interpretation of black holes (which state that it is impossible to condense things to a singularity, or past a set smallest particle size, which I think is plank's constant).

A miniature black hole is something that was also proposed with the quantum/string interpretation of black holes, but the means of creating one is more or less impossible. It requires a particle accelerator with a track larger than our solar system in order to keep the colliding parts in line. In lines with the doomsday ideas about creating one, I think that the atomic bomb was supposed to be the end of the world because it would cause our atmosphere to ignite. Luckily that didn't happen.

Electricity travels slower than the speed of light because of the impedence of the medium. Light in the conventional sense doesn't use a medium.

Space isn't a true vacuum, there is hydrogen out there. If it was a true vacuum then we could travel at the speed of light (provided a straight empty track), as there would be no friction and hence nothing to prevent speeding up.

We've got about 5 billion years before the Sun turns into a red dwarf which will fuck us up.

Global warming in my opinion is being blown out of proportion, but the threat is not that the temperature will become too hot for life but that changes in the weather system will cause storms and ice cap meltage.

Large masses cause warpage in the space-time which does change the perceived passage of time relative to the outside. Fast speeds do this as well. The popular story about this is about an astronaut who goes at an incredible speed on a journey for a year and when he comes back his daughter is older than him. He proceeds to mooch off her till he dies.

I'm a little lacking in the subject, but I believe the breakdown of black holes goes:
Spinning/non spinning
General relativity/quantum
Charged/non charged

In spinning black holes once you enter the event horizon you enter orbit around the singularity. In non spinning you get sucked straight to the center.

General relativity believes that black holes are masses (20x our Sun) that condense into a single point with an escape horizon nothing can escape. They are seen through the absence of light where light should be.

Quantum black holes are super condensed to as small as is possible, but they have volume.

Charged black holes don't naturally occur because as someone stated earlier, the gravitational force is the weakest of elementary forces, so in order to naturally form a black hole there can be no charge.

Feel free to correct me.
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36 / M / Canoga Park, CA
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Posted 6/23/07
Black holes aren't formed because a star explodes...it's the other way around...a star implodes...or it actually collapses on itself...it's central mass being so great that gravitational pull actually enables it to suck out not only the collapsed star's substance but anything unlucky enough to get near the event horizon...BTW light travels @ 186,000 miles per second
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Posted 6/23/07

Dusterbayala wrote:

Yeah the sun will be gone in about 40 billion years...(or is it 400billion) either way I'll be loooong dead then.
Global warming is bullshit... don't get me started on that. see my posts in the global warming thread. I have charts and scientific facts to back me up...


According to the Hertzsprung-Russel Diagram our sun is a G2V star...a 2nd generation yellow dwarf...it has an approximate lifespan of 10 to 12 billion years...our sun is currently around 5 billion yrs old...it will continue turning hydrogen into helium (it gives out nuclear energy through fusion, not fission), for another 5 billion yrs...after which it will start burning helium and turn into a red giant expanding its size till it reaches mars' orbit incinerating everything in between...it will then fizzle out ending everything in our solar system.
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26 / M / Body in NY Mind i...
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Posted 6/23/07

sanine wrote:


SenbonzakuraMaster wrote:

^thats what I also suggested duster. Because the assumption is that a black hole can have any mass. As i`ve said in ealier posts. The only issue is that constant rate in which the event horizon being equivalent to a super mass black hole apply. I also began to realize that a black hole also must have a limit to its expansion. Believing that nothing is constant in the universe as of now ( which defeats my idea of matter being a constant).
Even if we could make a contained black hole (impossible) that would mean we would have the energy of the reactions to a Super nova implosion.


I don't understand what you're saying about black holes not having mass. The general relativity interpretation says that there isn't any volume, because it is condensed into a single point (singularity) but I have never heard anything about no mass.

In regards to earlier posts Hawking Radiation is heat energy that is released, though this is only in the quantum/string interpretation of black holes (which state that it is impossible to condense things to a singularity, or past a set smallest particle size, which I think is plank's constant).

A miniature black hole is something that was also proposed with the quantum/string interpretation of black holes, but the means of creating one is more or less impossible. It requires a particle accelerator with a track larger than our solar system in order to keep the colliding parts in line. In lines with the doomsday ideas about creating one, I think that the atomic bomb was supposed to be the end of the world because it would cause our atmosphere to ignite. Luckily that didn't happen.

Electricity travels slower than the speed of light because of the impedence of the medium. Light in the conventional sense doesn't use a medium.

Space isn't a true vacuum, there is hydrogen out there. If it was a true vacuum then we could travel at the speed of light (provided a straight empty track), as there would be no friction and hence nothing to prevent speeding up.

We've got about 5 billion years before the Sun turns into a red dwarf which will fuck us up.

Global warming in my opinion is being blown out of proportion, but the threat is not that the temperature will become too hot for life but that changes in the weather system will cause storms and ice cap meltage.

Large masses cause warpage in the space-time which does change the perceived passage of time relative to the outside. Fast speeds do this as well. The popular story about this is about an astronaut who goes at an incredible speed on a journey for a year and when he comes back his daughter is older than him. He proceeds to mooch off her till he dies.

I'm a little lacking in the subject, but I believe the breakdown of black holes goes:
Spinning/non spinning
General relativity/quantum
Charged/non charged

In spinning black holes once you enter the event horizon you enter orbit around the singularity. In non spinning you get sucked straight to the center.

General relativity believes that black holes are masses (20x our Sun) that condense into a single point with an escape horizon nothing can escape. They are seen through the absence of light where light should be.

Quantum black holes are super condensed to as small as is possible, but they have volume.

Charged black holes don't naturally occur because as someone stated earlier, the gravitational force is the weakest of elementary forces, so in order to naturally form a black hole there can be no charge.

Feel free to correct me.


I`m back for a moment to correct someone You clearly have misinterpreted what I have said. Not to mention the general relativity should match the statements that hawking has made. A black hole can have a considerable amount of mass. This can only be determined by its volume ofcourse. I never stated that it doesn't have mass.

I should have better rephrased my statement i`m aware. The point is would the event horizon for every black hole apply even if its size differs. Meaning is the constant surpassing of speed of light always occur in the event horizon.

Oh and you mes up on the suns yellow status. Its a red giant that will disintegrate or be a considerable distance closer to us. So earth will take the place as first planet in the solar system. But we inevitably are wiped out.

Oh yea people can we please read earlier thoughts. I`m well aware that the particle accelerator of the magnitude is required. Like I said it needs the energy of a Super Nova explosion. Which naturally creates known black holes. Thats why I also stated that was impossible. Shit if we cant create fission energy successfully then we sure as hell cant make a black hole.

One more thing before I go offline. To those who made the reference to global warming. Its more bullshit then the simpletons of society realize. We make up a small amount of this global warming bullshit. The freaking earth itself creates more crap then us. I cant pin my exact reference but volcanic ash that covered Europe for approximately 5 years did the equivalent that we did during the industrial revolution. So cut that oh my god were all gonna die. Because your not your just gonna experience another ice age. So chin up and eats some whale blubber like our ancestors :lol:

God dammit I forgot something again. If the sun exploded holy shit thats hilarious. By the time in which we saw the sun explode the after shock wave would blow this planet to little marbles. So cut that nonsense out. If you have any smart remarks to asteroids colliding with earth don't even bother. Because if one were to on a massive scale collide you would not see it happen. The material would be most likely moving at the speed of light. So if your wishing for a quick death their it is.

Edit: Dammit I forgot one more thing. For those who are unaware of the suns path. Its not gonna be a freakin super nova ok. Its final stage will be a black dwarf better known as a neutron star. present state -> red giant -> mass condense -> neutron star
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Posted 6/24/07
^
"hmmm.... Well a black hole is ordinarily formed by the combustion of a super nova. Which is the highest level of a suns intensity. Apparently a black holes mass can be any amount. Meaning it can be a 1 foot high and 1 foot wide theoretically speaking. But its usually found to be 10^{31} kilograms which is the usual size of a super nova. Oh and the red giant refrence is not a final stage. More of a large mass but a lower intensity."

I imagine you misused mass for volume in that post. Since you said the mass can be anything, I took that to mean that the mass can be nothing, though you didn't explicitly say that.

A black dwarf is a white dwarf that has stopped emitting light and then emits black body radiation. There are none known in the universe because of the immense amount of time a white dwarf takes to die.

A neutron star is a highly dense star that is comprised of mainly neutrons.

pablo27 described perfectly what will happen to our happy planet.
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26 / M / Body in NY Mind i...
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Posted 6/24/07
^lol your definitely right about that one. Actually not entirely. We suspect that most of the black holes that are actually out there were produced in the deaths of massive stars, and so we expect those black holes to weigh about as much as a massive star. I used my correct reference if you must know. A typical mass for such a stellar black hole would be about 10 times the mass of the Sun. he more massive a black hole is, the more space it takes up.

I ment to say that its volume can be 1 foot high and wide. the 10^(31) was refrence to the mass.
Posted 6/24/07
Black Holes could be a hole in the fabric of space. Imagine space as a blanket and when a black hole is formed then it's like pinching a small area of the blanket and pulling it back. Now imagine that blanket is covering a layer of water if you pinch it now and pull it up then the water will flow into the tiny space you made by pinching it. Back to the black holes and space, maybe everything pulled into the black hole is being crushed and when it is done what is left over is electrons which means "c" is not decreasing but "e" is increasing. This is probably wrong and my head hurts...XP
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Posted 6/24/07
**looks around** i didnt know we had quantum physicists on CR o.0
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Posted 6/24/07

EvenGodDoesntKnow wrote:

Black Holes could be a hole in the fabric of space. Imagine space as a blanket and when a black hole is formed then it's like pinching a small area of the blanket and pulling it back. Now imagine that blanket is covering a layer of water if you pinch it now and pull it up then the water will flow into the tiny space you made by pinching it. Back to the black holes and space, maybe everything pulled into the black hole is being crushed and when it is done what is left over is electrons which means "c" is not decreasing but "e" is increasing. This is probably wrong and my head hurts...XP


Yea what your saying has been stated. Black holes condense matter into singularity. Oh yea if its condensing what made you assume that it was a rift in the fabric of the space time continuum. Oh yea if its condensing of atoms you should result in the formation of neutrons.

Oh Hawkings apparently revoked his original idea of Black Holes never letting matter information escape. It actually lets small amounts out. Sucks for him now doesnt it because he made a dictionary with that idea.
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Posted 6/24/07

SenbonzakuraMaster wrote:


EvenGodDoesntKnow wrote:

Black Holes could be a hole in the fabric of space. Imagine space as a blanket and when a black hole is formed then it's like pinching a small area of the blanket and pulling it back. Now imagine that blanket is covering a layer of water if you pinch it now and pull it up then the water will flow into the tiny space you made by pinching it. Back to the black holes and space, maybe everything pulled into the black hole is being crushed and when it is done what is left over is electrons which means "c" is not decreasing but "e" is increasing. This is probably wrong and my head hurts...XP


Yea what your saying has been stated. Black holes condense matter into singularity. Oh yea if its condensing what made you assume that it was a rift in the fabric of the space time continuum. Oh yea if its condensing of atoms you should result in the formation of neutrons.

Oh Hawkings apparently revoked his original idea of Black Holes never letting matter information escape. It actually lets small amounts out. Sucks for him now doesnt it because he made a dictionary with that idea.


I respect anyone who is willing to strike out their old work. Speaking of Hawking and black holes, I read that he was originally banned from lecturing on this in France because of the double entendre of "black hole" in French :)

Also to the first quoted guy, the way my physics teacher explained curvature of space-time via mass was he held out a blanket and put various objects on it. The indent was the curvature of space-time, determined by the mass of the object placed there. I suppose a black hole would be an object that falls through the blanket? This pan out as an example for all you "quantum physicists"?
Posted 6/24/07

SenbonzakuraMaster wrote:


EvenGodDoesntKnow wrote:

Black Holes could be a hole in the fabric of space. Imagine space as a blanket and when a black hole is formed then it's like pinching a small area of the blanket and pulling it back. Now imagine that blanket is covering a layer of water if you pinch it now and pull it up then the water will flow into the tiny space you made by pinching it. Back to the black holes and space, maybe everything pulled into the black hole is being crushed and when it is done what is left over is electrons which means "c" is not decreasing but "e" is increasing. This is probably wrong and my head hurts...XP


Yea what your saying has been stated. Black holes condense matter into singularity. Oh yea if its condensing what made you assume that it was a rift in the fabric of the space time continuum. Oh yea if its condensing of atoms you should result in the formation of neutrons.

Oh Hawkings apparently revoked his original idea of Black Holes never letting matter information escape. It actually lets small amounts out. Sucks for him now doesnt it because he made a dictionary with that idea.


Oh I assumed that because in my mind I saw space as a large fabric and a black holes as tiny wrinkles or pinches made by a large amount of mass. Back to the blanket, now the water is being pulled into the small space made by a strong amount of mass. Now we all know that if you put something heavy on a blanket floating on water it will sink. But what i am thinking of it that it's the opposite and instead of going down it goes up. The idea that a black hole is a mess of strings didn't make sense to me. Plus when a black hole is formed it is just a compressed ball of mass and to compress something is to take the surrounding particles and squeeze it until everything is concentrated at a certain point. It's like a bottle of soda. Imagine a bottle of soda as a black hole with a plug in it. If you shake it and open the cap what will happen? All the soda will come out. Now by opening it you will have decompressed it, same thing with the black hole. When it is finished all the mass it had sucked in will return as electrons as when the soda will return foam-like. Now i know i am wrong here...XD

EDIT: My old work? I'm only 15.....XD
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33 / M
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Posted 6/24/07
Asshole?
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33 / M / Cali
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Posted 6/24/07
lol im so confused by these analogies...

and does quantum physics play a role in black holes? i thought it was a completely separate theory... black holes are based on newtonian physics?

sorry.. i only studied some basic physics.. and quantum mechanics.. and it was a while ago... didnt learn much bout black holes in school...
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