First  Prev  1  2  Next  Last
Post Reply Liberalizing forum rules for the new year - currently conflicts with CR's own content
81196 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
116
Offline
Posted 12/8/13 , edited 12/10/13
Looking around it seems very ironic that the current forum rules are still prudish enough to ban Crunchyroll's own content!

To be precise, I mean you cannot show snapshots of CR titles, or even link to (if interpreted logically) CR's own titles or show the same pics as in news articles, or link to official websites, or show pics of official anime studio artwork, much less fanart.

Magi (Paimon ep 5), Kimi no Iru Machi (A Town Where You Live) in CR manga, or some scenes and artwork from One Piece, Fairy Tail, or any of the censored scenes in Yuushibu (I Couldn`t Become a Hero), Walkure Romanze, Outbreak Company, and many other fanservice anime, and all official artwork and snapshots of transformed Satsuki and Ryuuko in Kill La Kill are, or would be banned by forum rules.

Note: most of these titles are not Mature! But even that is subjective. For example, Sentai rates To Love Ru, Motto To Love Ru, and Majikoi as appropriate for age 14 (and I can cite several other examples) Obviously I can't post any images here, and I'd probably be breaking the rules by providing links to them.

These news articles would also banned by forum rules:
http://www.crunchyroll.com/anime-news/2013/12/07/more-amazing-kill-la-kill-cosplay

http://www.crunchyroll.com/anime-news/2013/12/06/official-gargantia-and-girls-und-panzer-hug-pillows-prepared-for-comiket
- providing the NSFW link at the bottom for example, is not allowed in the forums

http://www.crunchyroll.com/anime-news/2013/12/07/video-maken-ki-two-anime-commercial
- (FYI: Maken-Ki is also a Shounen title)

http://www.crunchyroll.com/anime-news/2013/10/21-1/log-horizon-author-answers-4chan-readers-questions
http://www.crunchyroll.com/anime-news/2013/12/07/log-horizon-author-returns-to-4chan
- by linking to 4chan (well, the /a/ archive anyways)

Particularly as Crunchyroll spreads in Brazil and Europe whose attitudes are MUCH less prudish--have you seen their version of Big Brother? Clips of the Danish, German Big Brother as seen on broadcast TV are on dailymotion. Or seen their mainstream magazines laying around with casual nudity?--these restrictions just seem wholly necessary especially in this day and age of tumblr NSFW blogs (which yahoo still kept!), unrestricted Amazon purchases, fanservice anime, pixiv, 4chan, 2chan, sankakucomplex, etc.

I'm not pushing for CR to allow NSFW content directly in the forums. However as we enter a new year, I'd like to suggest changes in line with something like ANN (animenewsnetwork.com), the biggest mainstream news site:
- remove the ridiculous rule about showing at most "half a breast"
- remove the ban on "covered up" nudity i.e. breasts covered with arms/hands, soap, or light beams are not allowed (basically all the tools fanservice shows use to cover up for censored broadcasts)
- remove restrictions on links

Please do not confuse removing the link restrictions as advocating for porn spam, since forum mods already ban advertising spam of any kind. I'm saying that like ANN, whose forums are also "all-ages" (by American standards) any NSFW image that cannot be posted in line can simply be linked to instead, as well as allowing links to pertinent sites containing NSFW content that would not be allowed directly in the forums.

EDIT: added some more above

Also, in addition to CR's anime, manga, and news content being in violation of forum rules, the store is potentially too, with the risque figures. From what I've seen removed due to "half breast" rule, Maou (from Maouyuu Yuusha) like: http://www.crunchyroll.com/store/p/33048/Maoyu-Maou-Ani-Statue-18-Scale
would qualify as violations. Furthermore, some of these figures in the CR store are cast-off, like the Super Sonico figure: http://www.crunchyroll.com/store/p/37700/Super-Sonico-Nitro-Sonico-Summer-Beach-Figure
While we can't show them cast-off in the forums directly, we also cannot link to sites that show them either!
103973 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
25 / M / This Dying World
Offline
Posted 12/8/13
Interesting. I will reference this
Guardian of A/M/P
65266 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
Yo Mama's House
Offline
Posted 12/8/13
Oh yes. Finally.

I see that I'm not the only one that sees this inconsistency with the site in relatives to the culture and demographic that they are promoting and promoting to; you and are are not alone in contesting this one but are mostly the ones that are a bit more vocal about it. I'm probably the most active on this subject for that last couple of months with the mods; they, the mods, know my skirmish with this.

The best answer that I've gotten from them, and to the best of my knowledge in deciphering, is the "interaction" aspects of the forums. In this site's definition, there's a difference in what they, crunchyroll, is presenting apart from what's going down the forums. It was noted to me that the front page content, in-store items, and the like that's being presented by this site are reviewed before being posted. In contrast, since user "interaction" is a bit more volatile and unpredictable, it's subjected to harder rulings; it's a matter of content control so that interactions with the underage constituents are not to leek into something that can be misappropriated as some kind of sexual advancement or harassment, so in turn, it's to protect the users from the other users. Additionally, it reduces the liability on crunchyroll's part for not harboring such an online environment. To reiterate, crunchyroll site content, no matter how revealing as you described, doesn't equal user interactions and posts, so that's why the too selectivity on this subject. There are differences in clicking a news or product with questionable content than being quoted with questionable content, and those are choice and consent, despite being of age or underage.


Also, take this into account with shinji's posts when this site went legit:

Crunchyroll strives to be a clean, family-friendly place!


Due to complaints from advertisers and our content providers, we will be enforcing this much more aggressively in the future. Hopefully, this should not come as a surprise to anybody, but to give people enough transition time, there will be a grace period until Friday, May 1st. Note that only groups with material which violates the Crunchyroll TOS (for example, nudity and defamation) will be removed without notice.

http://www.crunchyroll.com/forumtopic-495919/inappropriate-groups-and-photos-to-be-removed-on-friday-may-1st?fpid=24099267


I'm in agreement with you that it doesn't have to go in the way of total NSFW, but at least the site should be catering to the true paying demographic majority. We live in the age of Lady Gaga singing about doing what you want with her body in national radio; seriously, this is what kids listen to when they are being driven to school in the morning, Ryan Seacrest in the morning. I have no doubt that pubescent kids have Facebook and have seen that Wrecking Ball video; we're still in America land by the way. Even Boy Meets World, 90's show, referenced and joked about sex and was still a rated G show. In contrast with the crunchyroll forum community, even alluding to sex in a Victorian manner, picture caption text or forum body text, is a punishable offense on the forums if reported, and yes, I've had some of my posts reported and deleted because of this. Now with the niche and older audience that is Anime in a site that's trying to grow its community, it's odd to implement such standards to a community with a lot the shows that's being aired here are flinging their gravity defying tats and/or are filled sex jokes that doesn't have a content block on it; Walkure Romanze is a great recent example of this, and yes, it's not categorized "Seinen/Mature".

I've been pounding at this rock for a while now, even before the changes of the lead mods. I'm well aware, and somewhat respect, that at the end it's the call of groundskeepers of this site on what's the most economical move in maintaining their community while keeping some kind of happy medium. Though, I'm not going to stop pounding on the rock if I see cracks and especially now that's someone(s) is there helping, but I'll try to be civil about and construct an understanding argument.

This is in no disrespect to the mods nor undermining what they do. This is far from that. This is about the PG-13 attitude and the discrepancies being presented and user allowable content on this site in contrast to this site's true target audience. Please don't just shrug this off as some petty excuse to argue with you guys because we are not the only ones that think so. Take it more as a feedback and suggestion rather than an attack.
81196 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
116
Offline
Posted 12/9/13 , edited 12/9/13
Hey zendude, I'm also glad to see I'm not the only one who thinks so too!

Shinji's post of the change was somewhat understandable back then, over 4 years ago:

Due to complaints from advertisers and our content providers, we will be enforcing this much more aggressively in the future. Hopefully, this should not come as a surprise to anybody, but to give people enough transition time, there will be a grace period until Friday, May 1st. Note that only groups with material which violates the Crunchyroll TOS (for example, nudity and defamation) will be removed without notice.


just after CR went legit, before they accumilated all the paying subscribers, when they only had Naruto and Bleach and a couple other shows, and were looking for mainstream US advertisers who didn't know much about anime to pay for the free option.

It seemed like there wasn't a problem among users in the forums themselves. People got along fine, ecchiness and all, but the change was made purely to appease advertisers. However, this:

Crunchyroll strives to be a clean, family-friendly place!

if by "clean, family-friendly" he means in more think-of-the-children prudish terms (where breasts = ZOMG porn), then that would seem to directly contradict with all of the content CR has gotten and will increasingly get, and the values celebrated by the users, who ultimately CR needs to rely on. (On the other hand, if he means anything that's legally "all-ages", then yeah, any non-adult anime or manga that Japan puts out would fit the bill as family friendly, such as To-Love-Ru, Majikoi, Kanokon, etc Seriously )

Regarding the "user interaction" argument, well, there's just one problem: the users can already interact and discuss material that is otherwise forbidden in the forums on each news article and video comment section! Of course, the features are limited, but fuller discussion is what the forums are supposed to be for, except it's currently hampered by restrictive rules the rest of CR are not subject to.

Furthermore, the change was purely driven by appeasing marketing folks at the initial stages. There wasn't an issue among most users prior to clamping down on the ecchiness. And what about interaction with the content producers themselves? Discussion or links of this is also forbidden by forums rules.

I and you mentioned Walkure Romanze as one latest example. Well, how would we discuss its eroge origins? Currently impossible. What about interaction with the producers, such as news that they broadcast out? Also currently impossible to discuss.

Let me be specific, and perhaps take a chance at breaking forum rules with some NSFW links in order to concretely illustrate the issue:

Here's the official studio website for Walkure Romanze: http://walroma.com
This Japenese blog: http://blog.getchu.com/archives/52053105.html then picked up news from the creators about changes made for the home video version here: http://walroma.com/news/archives/39
That last link are screencap comparisons. Screencap on the broadcast version you can take right on CR, which is not allowed in the forum. Links here are usually not allowed either.

So not only is discussing Walkure Romanze, the eroge and how it shares the same voice actress, or comparing artwork between the two impossible, discussing, "Hey here's what the Walkure Romanze studio just blogged about the DVD/BD version!" is also currently impossible.

But let's come back to a more mainstream original title like Kill La Kill. As mentioned, even non-nude pics of Satsuki and Ryuuko are off-limits. But then, even forum rules are now preventing interaction and discussion by creators. Trigger puts out a regular almost weekly newsletter with various artwork and sketches about Kill La Kill. You can subscribe in their online store. But some of the content of that newsletter, despite being risque but still SFW, is currently impossible on the forums.

Trigger also has an English speaking rep (and fun guy!): https://twitter.com/Trigger_Tattun
who also interacts with users. For example, linking to a 4chan contest, Ryuuko boobs vs Satsuki's ass https://twitter.com/Trigger_Tattun/status/391074864770990081 (just a poll, no images, but such language and discussion may get you in trouble here)

Or for example, how he welcomes fanart: https://twitter.com/Trigger_Tattun/status/394665557670109184
including those by erotic artists, such as these two that he retweeted:
https://twitter.com/matsuryun/status/395417315530919937 (matsuryun)
https://twitter.com/otmm/status/391734905987538944/photo/1 (ReDrop)
but as he mentioned, he as nothing to worry about because everything is Safe For Work at Trigger studios

Of course not only are those impossible, discussion of it, linking to it, but also linking to artist home pages -- if you follow the links to matsuryun and ReDrop to their home pages -- are all forbidden! I'm breaking the rules right now just to illustrate how much content producer interaction with users is hampered.


Coming on nearly 5 years since the change now, I think it's time CR forums change at least to resolve some of these discrepancies in a way that more aligns with CR's intent, culture, and values reflected by its users through its content. It is frankly odd to such a glaring discrepancy, using an artificial barrier between content on CR and user's interaction. After all, who are the content for? The users! Therefore the values and culture reflected in the content is also reflected in the users who watch them. If there were no consumers, CR would not be getting the content. And CR NEEDS the users. Do you see this essentially symbiotic relationship? Yet the users who are showing their consumption preferences with their wallets -- critical for CR's business! -- cannot express those preferences in the forums.... except in the article and episode and show comments as a "loophole".

With Crunchyroll already being established, and fanbase that is understands and wants such content don't think the fears CR initially faced apply anymore. Again, to mods and head honchos, you don't need to become sankakucomplex (nothing wrong with them though). But I strongly suggest taking a look at ANN (http://animenewsnetwork.com). They too are a very large American, all-ages site, that hosts some videos, employ staff, and strongly relies on advertisers.

Even though they don't allow showing nudity in a rational and well defined sense--no nipples or pubic areas directly in their site (articles that contain them will usually require clicking through), they ARE HONEST, don't infantilize their users, and absolutely do not shy away from otaku and fujoshi culture that is the core of your business, and openly discuss any related and pertinent items. Thick skin is required in the debates, and NSFW or erotic content is fully allowed to be linked to. Also , they been around for a long time and never had a ridiculous "half breast" limit or or covered-up breast ban, or fuzzy, arbitrary censoring of content. As mentioned since they rely on advertising, ANN doesn't have problem and are in fact THE main site all US publishers use to advertise. (They even allow ads for adult or mature content, provided no nips or pubes are shown) Remember, this is a well known anime industry all-ages site.
81196 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
116
Offline
Posted 12/9/13 , edited 12/9/13
Sorry for rambling on, but I really just wanted to get this out there. Though I've barely interacted in the forums, I've been here since April 2007, I do occasionally browse through it. And to be quite frank, it's been frustrating to see the mod hammer come down in many threads since "going legit", so I hope to spur some rational change, I hope none of the moderators take this personally. The change in rules should make your job easier too!

One last thing to mention is that since The Chernin Group bought a stake in Crunchyroll and the news mentioned some more international ambitions, this problem of the forum rules not reflecting content--and thus user--values will become even more exacerbated. From the news it seemed they recognized the value in filling in niches rather than competing with Hulu and Netflix for the mainstream American content providers. They mentioned the value in international content of not just anime but dramas. Well, if you are still using the CR site, and bringing in Brazillian or European live action shows, and especially cross-translating to multiple languages to appeal to foreign audiences, you will see an even greater discrepancy in values held and reflected vs values enforced with forum rules.
1mirg 
62904 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
24 / M / United States of...
Offline
Posted 12/9/13 , edited 12/9/13
I seen alot of the sites rules broken on a daily basis, even in the moderators own "talk to us" thread. You are correct, the site rules do currently conflicts with CR's own content on both the forums, stores, shows, manga's, and even what the moderators, Support staff, and Crunchyroll Staff post. I stopped paying attention to the rules awhile ago. I am just doing what I do for every other site and that's sticking to my morals and being myself. I rarely post in the official forums, I post more in GB's, PM's, and Groups within crunchyroll. I cannot take the sites rules seriously when I see confliction everywhere I look, and when I was paying attention to the rules, most of the time nothing is done about those content that break the rules. I already tried bringing this subject up awhile ago, but I was ignored for the most part, I am not very good at communication any-way...I am more of that guy behind the scenes, the one that doesn't talk to those who don't bother talking to him. But that is besides the point of the post here. You bring up very good points and I do agree with you that the forum rules does currently conflicts with CR's own content. But, there is one thing I must point out here. To Love Ru IS rated R+. Either or...yeah
81196 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
116
Offline
Posted 12/9/13 , edited 1/31/14
Hey thanks for chiming in 1mirg!


But, there is one thing I must point out here. To Love Ru IS rated R+. Either or...yeah

Actually it's not, that's why I bring it up, to illustrate the subjectivity. Everyone has their own system for video releases, and the anime publishers do not use movie theater MPAA ratings (unless it's distributed in theaters like Ghibli films). In fact, live action movies or shows that have uncut or director's cut versions are released as "unrated" on video.

Check it out - rated age 14:
To Love Ru: http://www.amazon.com/To-Love-Ru-Complete-Collection/dp/B0057O6IJG/
To Love Ru back cover: http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/81jg2mBlYIL._SL1280_.jpg

Motto To Love Ru: http://www.amazon.com/Motto-Loveru-Complete-Collection/dp/B006XDU80A/
Motto To Love Ru back cover: http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/81zdZEEZauL._SL1280_.jpg

Majikoi: http://www.amazon.com/Majikoi-Samurai-Complete-Collection-Blu-ray/dp/B008KZX8VK/
Majikoi back cover: http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/81l4jbje93L._SL1280_.jpg
Majikoi front cover with discs: http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/81QzX78Km-L._SL1280_.jpg
Majikoi broadcast vs video comparison (mouse over the pics): http://www.kira-reviews.com/blog/archives/category/majikoi

Media Blasters rates these age 16:
Kanokon review with pics: http://mudduck454.wordpress.com/2010/05/18/review-of-media-blasters-release-of-kanokon-vol-1/
Kanokon back cover: http://i455.photobucket.com/albums/qq276/mudduck454/Kanokonvol1R1-1.jpg
(note: they stopped the TV single volumes and released a box set instead)

Queen's Blade 1: http://www.amazon.com/Queens-Blade-Exiled-Collection-Blu-ray/dp/B0045O2PH8/
Queen's Blade 1 back cover: http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61heon%2BR49L.jpg

Queen's Blade 2: http://www.amazon.com/Queens-Blade-The-Evil-Blu-ray/dp/B0057FGD1I/
Queen's Blade 2 back cover: http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/71A3nDUlGhL.jpg

Ikki tousen Dragon Destiny: http://www.amazon.com/Ikki-Tousen-Dragon-Destiny-Premium/dp/B00393SFT8/
Ikki tousen Dragon Destiny back cover: http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/617vybf82RL.jpg

And these are all with the extra naked, super sexy specials btw.
Furthermore, you'll notice Amazon themselves all rates these as "NOT RATED"

But whatever the rating the publisher uses, none of these constitute any legal restrictions. I think some people in the US mistakenly think the MPAA movie ratings are somehow a legal standard. Actually it was started due to political pressure; but nonetheless it has never been and never will be law. In fact all attempts to legally restrict such material have all been struck down in Federal courts when challenged. But what happens when the same R-rated movie hits home video as "unrated" with extra footage they couldn't put in the theater release? What do the people who are uptight ratings about it do then, likewise with everything else unrated online?


However, for Canada, there is a legal standard and those ratings are a approved by government. Sentai uses the same video releases and packaging for Canada, so if you look at the back cover, you'll see next to TV14, another icon in yellow "14A" which is the Canadian rating. And yep, Majikoi is still age 14 in Canada. Ironically, most M-rated shows in the US turns out to still be 14A in Canada.
Guardian of A/M/P
65266 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
Yo Mama's House
Offline
Posted 12/9/13 , edited 12/9/13
The best that I can put the site is probably around the middle-high level when compared to other Anime sites in an overall sense; it's certainly high tier in the aspects of its contractual shows, but the community is sluggish and lackluster. The social aspect of the site would be top but take into account on how much users and activity purge happened several years ago with the site going legit. Though the community has recovered, the forum and group community still haven't been the same nor even close to what this site's community activity numbers used to be in 2008.

The site itself is certainly striving to be that "one-stop-shop" arena for everything Anime, and I wouldn't put it behind crunchyroll that they want to be that de-facto Anime community because of the potential from such a move. Just going from basic social media business principles, the face time on the products and services that they are trying to move would exponentially better if they have a good share of the overall Anime community participating here, and crunchyroll have been making such moves to do so. You can see this with the news section being more apparent than and the improvement with the store.

Although, one thing, as I see it, that the site haven't been improving on, and actually probably stagnating, is the forums and groups. That's probably been taken away, as mentioned one the first paragraph, by the legit purge of the site, but I haven't seen some kind of effort in netting some more users in the forums and groups. Additionally, I think that the people who are trying to become a regular in the forums and groups are being turned off by somethings like misperceived rigid rulings and instant thread closing because of such. There isn't the competition for some kind of attention anymore; there's no sexy-ness to the thread as it used to be. I'll praise crunchyroll for cleaning up the community, but I believe that they cleaned it too well; that's probably, at least mine, one of the top reasons why the community is still at a plateau state after the recovery from the legit move from 2008.

There are a couple of possibilities to why they haven't made any major improvements on the forums and groups. The best reasons that I've seen are that the forums aren't really the of a priority nor really churning sexy sales turn rate and user retention as oppose to something like the front page news comboed in with the Daily Deals. In turn, you'll have yourself something that's going to be at the backburner.

This goes back to the point of this thread and this guy's point right here on this link- click me. and me too. And that point is to ease up on the rules and let the community flow and breath a bit more in the way that's being presented and sold and perpetuated by the site itself. I do believe that this will open up the forum and group community to being a bit more flourish again which in turn will be a bit more beneficial for the users and crunchyroll.
Trelac 
27210 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
Offline
Posted 12/9/13 , edited 12/9/13
Fight the fight brother, but we all know what drives companies. "You can't satisfy everyone" applies to business, in that they take the road most traveled for profits of course. I'm sure they've crunched the numbers and found they could attract more customers being "family friendly." And that "family friendly" is a hard nut to crack in the U.S. since we seem to still have a lot of puritan influences. Anyways, not saying this isn't a valid argument, just think it's a losing argument in a current societal and economical sense... Enough drunken trying to be a smart guy talk though, back to anime...

Oh, and I get the hypocrisy, but it's not about being actually "family friendly." It's about the appearance of being "family friendly."
Guardian of A/M/P
65266 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
Yo Mama's House
Offline
Posted 12/10/13
One of my favorite examples on this site is the following article-
Station Airs Uncensored Version of "Oreimo" Bicycle

Spoilered for size and content-
(Both tags are under the same linking as the original as posted by Scott Green from the link above.)


Going by how's that posted as oppose to this, the post was on the front page. It probably got a lot of eyes on it too; well, it certainly did get more than this post here will ever will. I'm pretty sure that that, posting on the front page, did more damage to the kiddies, allegedly, than me posting it here. Of course, there's the factor of someone being surprised by this picture in such a thread like this in contrast of the article title being "Station Airs Uncensored Version of "Oreimo" Bicycle", and that was one of the points presented to me by several mods.

Putting this shortly, CR user posted content and CR site posted content are not the same thing, and they don't necessarily have the same rules despite it being the same thing and being posted on the same site. Again, this is where we go back to your point of the values that's being presented and sold on this site.
81196 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
116
Offline
Posted 12/10/13 , edited 12/10/13
@zendude
Yeah I can see how CR wants to be a one-stop-shop and that's fine. The videos, news, and store embraces the entire culture. With the loophole of interacting on the news and video comment section, it seems like the forum wants to reject that culture. You may be right in that it may simply not be a priority. Hell, management may not even be aware of this hypocritical situation they're in.

@Trelac
Hah, if CR really wanted to be family friendly, they would show nothing but Ghibli films and truly kids shows and the majority of news items would not exist. Crunchyroll would basically be dead if they actually took their own messages seriously. However, if you think about it logically, doesn't *all*-ages also implies those who are beyond kids too; basically something for everyone? lol.

I think CR could change the forums if a business case can be made that if they loosened up the forum community from the time of the purge a few years ago, they could bring in more business from ads around the site and their shops, by having people stick around and come here to discuss anime and manga, as opposed to going elsewhere for discussion (so those sites get the ad traffic), and only coming here for the video. In other words, liberalizing the forums, to align it with the rest of CR content, helps their one-stop-shop business idea.

Basically to reiterate, should moderate similar to how http://animenewsnetwork.com does, at least in practice. They too are a "family friendly" site, but have done so without being hypocritical. They are simply honest with themselves, and IMO human nature. There's no discrepancy between news topics and forum threads. It's not that they advocate any particular view as their own staff have various different personal views, but what they do is acknowledge all aspects of the culture. ANN only moderates when people start directly attacking other people (without being heavy handed) or straying off topic, soapboxing. But they don't restrict and otaku or fujoshi discussion or have ridiculous restrictions on "half breasts" or covered breasts like CR does here. That is already more restrictive than PG-13. Nor do they restrict links. At least you can keep the content on the site and in the forums technically family friendly by allowing links. Many of the news source items contain erotica themselves. ANN does that on their articles by making NSFW items click-through and allow the same courtesy for users via links in the forums. Basically the 3 items I listed in the first post.

For ANN it was a no-brainer as that's where a lot of people also gather to discuss news and reviews, so they are heavily dependent on the ad traffic, even with their subscription service (which not many use). They'd be killing themselves if they had a news item about sexy dakimakura (body pillows) and started locking down threads discussing, showing non-nude, or linking to dakimakura. Like this:
http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/interest/2012-01-09/to-love-ru-darkness-hugging-pillow-auction-ends-at-us$2600

This is the kind of business case that management needs to hear, to change the forums I think:
http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/bbs/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=129981&start=0

Here's the thing, the click through rate for suggestive ads is about 5x the click through rate for non-suggestive ads. That's why our advertisers keep going that route, because apparently it's what our readers appear to be interested in.
81196 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
116
Offline
Posted 12/13/13
To give you an example of what I mean about "being honest":
http://www.crunchyroll.com/forumtopic-830233/win-a-town-where-you-live-posters-a-crmanga-app-challenge#45082071


lugiamania wrote:


spotlesseden wrote:

one question. Why i can't read this manga on IOS app? I login and i don't see "A Town Where You Live" manga anywhere. it doesn't make sense.


Unfortunately due to Apple's terms and conditions, we cannot make A Town Where You Live available on iOS due to certain content, but you don't need to be reading specifically any one title to enter! We've got a ton of other great manga to choose from!


The CR rep can simply come right out and say it's because of the few instances of nudity and sexual situations in A Town Where You Live--a Shounen manga title, btw--and that Apple's policies extend to third party content available through an app (in contrast to Google's or Amazon which does not extend to external or 3rd party content). That's it. No need to hide it as everyone is already old enough to handle it. (see the discussion above). Just be frank as other anime and manga titles are also not available through iOS and this vague explanation still leaves people in the dark.

As a "brand manager" I guess I can understand the reluctance, but then again, the topic is dealing with a contest to win a large waterproof poster of the sexy girl in A Town Where You Live, meant to be hung in your bathroom, so there are some conflicting messages in terms of the CR brand here...
64866 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
28 / M / San Antonio
Offline
Posted 12/18/13 , edited 12/18/13


I am wondering if this is a repeat of what happened when the CR app was released on iOS devices. For half a year, CR said the same thing: "Unfortunately due to Apple's terms and conditions, we cannot make "X Show" on iOS due to certain content", whenever someone complained that a show was not being listed on the iOS device.

It turns out that these shows were allowed on iOS devices, but you needed to have the "Show Mature Content" filter turned on in your profile on the site. Many CR employees were confused about Apple's rules and did not know that they actually were allowed.

After I PMed a couple CR support members, someone at CR (not going to name anyone) finally got a clear answer.

Now, instead of telling people that Apple doesn't allow a certain show, they tell people how to enable mature content in their profiles to watch these shows on their iOS devices.


There are other manga apps that have mature manga that Apple does not block. Apple themselves now sell mature rated manga in their iBooks app. So I think that this problem is repeating itself with CR's manga app as I don't see any reason why Apple would sell mature manga and allow other apps to have mature manga, but then turn around and block CR's manga app from listing mature manga.


EDIT: I almost forgot, but the above story about mature content and the CR iOS app also applied to the Sony PS3. Both issues were going on at the same time, and my conversations talked about both Apple and Sony policies.
81196 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
116
Offline
Posted 12/18/13 , edited 12/18/13
@-Chris311-

From what I understand Apple's policy for their ebooks / iBooks is different from their apps. The apps appear to be stricter. Viz also has the same issue with their iOS app. Recently their workaround was to offer it through Kindle, which is also available on iTunes. It might be the sheer volume of books that prevents each one from being scrutinized by Apple. Whatever the case, they are certainly inconsistent.

See recently:
http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2013-11-10/apple-removes-image-comic-title-in-some-ios-apps-keeps-it-in-ibooks
Apple Removes Image Comic Title in Some iOS Apps, Keeps It in iBooks
and keep in mind the entire Comixology app itself is already age restricted to 17+

But this has been going on for some time now, so it's probably prudent for CR to be cautious with Apple. Even if Apple would ultimately allow it, they could still remove it because of the titties.

http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2013-05-24/comixology-pulls-56-comics-from-its-ios-app-due-to-content
ComiXology Pulls 56 Comics From Its iOS App Due to Content (including manga)

http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2011-08-09/u.s-comix-classix-app-censored-for-iphone-not-ipad/android
U.S. Comix Classix App Censored for iPhone, Not iPad/Android

http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2010-05-07/developer/30-percent-of-kodansha-manga-rejected-by-itunes
Developer: 30% of Kodansha Manga Rejected by iTunes
64866 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
28 / M / San Antonio
Offline
Posted 12/18/13 , edited 12/18/13

npcomplete wrote:

@-Chris311-

From what I understand Apple's policy for their ebooks / iBooks is different from their apps. The apps appear to be stricter. Viz also has the same issue with their iOS app. Recently their workaround was to offer it through Kindle, which is also available on iTunes. It might be the sheer volume of books that prevents each one from being scrutinized by Apple. Whatever the case, they are certainly inconsistent.

See recently:
http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2013-11-10/apple-removes-image-comic-title-in-some-ios-apps-keeps-it-in-ibooks
Apple Removes Image Comic Title in Some iOS Apps, Keeps It in iBooks
and keep in mind the entire Comixology app itself is already age restricted to 17+

But this has been going on for some time now, so it's probably prudent for CR to be cautious with Apple. Even if Apple would ultimately allow it, they could still remove it because of the titties.

http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2013-05-24/comixology-pulls-56-comics-from-its-ios-app-due-to-content
ComiXology Pulls 56 Comics From Its iOS App Due to Content (including manga)

http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2011-08-09/u.s-comix-classix-app-censored-for-iphone-not-ipad/android
U.S. Comix Classix App Censored for iPhone, Not iPad/Android

http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2010-05-07/developer/30-percent-of-kodansha-manga-rejected-by-itunes
Developer: 30% of Kodansha Manga Rejected by iTunes


Thanks for the info. I could have sworn I saw some highly erotic manga browsing the Viz app and iBooks earlier this year.

However, its funny how Apple doesn't consider "Go The F**k to Sleep" a mature title, which is a book I have purchased through iBooks.

They also sell erotic novels (I remember seeing Fifty Shades of Grey advertised on a best seller list in iTunes) that are extremely detailed in their iBooks store, but apparently under-boob in a Manga is a no-no.
First  Prev  1  2  Next  Last
You must be logged in to post.