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Wizard Barristers: Benmashi Cecil Anticipation & Discussions
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Posted 1/12/14 , edited 1/12/14

windsagio wrote:

You know what you never see, anywhere in the first episode? Magic used for something other than destruction.

This is what's worrying me the most right now. There's fantastic potential in this setting for some really inventive cases that challenge the viewer to think outside the box for how magic could have been used, but there's two ways this can go wrong - if the magic is unrestricted, the revelation of a certain spell could seem like an asspull, and if the magic is too limited, there's little room for the creativity that makes this concept so appealing. At the moment, it seems like the latter could be true for this series, and I think that would be a waste.
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Posted 1/12/14

kitsuneshoujo wrote:

Well first off the flame-using criminal was to set the tone for the setting. If you kill using magic, you will probly get sentenced to death. If you use magic at all you get picked up by the police and sent to magic court.

Also that bank manager would probably get in trouble for obstruction of justice if he's found out.

I'm pretty sure there have been anime where magic has been used for something other than destruction, but I can't think of anything right now.


Someday's Dreamers for one, or currently even Log Horizon (thinking specifically of the magical summon being used to power the steam engine). In "I could have been a hero..." they use it for every day convenience, like it's a utility.


TotalPotato wrote:

This is what's worrying me the most right now. There's fantastic potential in this setting for some really inventive cases that challenge the viewer to think outside the box for how magic could have been used, but there's two ways this can go wrong - if the magic is unrestricted, the revelation of a certain spell could seem like an asspull, and if the magic is too limited, there's little room for the creativity that makes this concept so appealing. At the moment, it seems like the latter could be true for this series, and I think that would be a waste.


Makes me think of a quote from a fairly well known scifi author (although don't remember for sure which now)...

Essentially he said that science fiction was almost impossible to write a mystery for, because you can ALWAYS have a gadget that 'cheats' and solves the question in an unexpected way. I can definitely feel what you're saying, it'd be easy to run into the same problem with a high-magic world.
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Posted 1/12/14
  1. Does Yasuomi Umetsu have a thing for red scooters?
  2. Why does it feel like this series is missing half its secondary animation frames.
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Posted 1/12/14 , edited 1/12/14

Insomnist wrote:

  1. Does Yasuomi Umetsu have a thing for red scooters?
  2. Why does it feel like this series is missing half its secondary animation frames.


The first question, it is a vibrant color, adds contrast to the world. Probably kept it as a signature piece or maybe had/has one.

Answer to the second question, couple reasons. First is common with CG/still frame animations. You have very fluid with something coarse. It becomes more noticable. Second is some action scenes seem to not use key frame style animation, and instead each frame is more keyframe to make a fluid and less jerky motion. Tough to do but really changes how action scenes feel. Reason it is so tough is cannot use secondary artists to fill in.
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Posted 1/12/14 , edited 1/12/14

Vaporisor wrote:

Answer to the second question, couple reasons. First is common with CG/still frame animations. You have very fluid with something coarse. It becomes more noticable. Second is some action scenes seem to not use key frame style animation, and instead each frame is more keyframe to make a fluid and less jerky motion. Tough to do but really changes how action scenes feel. Reason it is so tough is cannot use secondary artists to fill in.

I... can't understand this paragraph.

The animation just felt jerky, like frames were missing. Even during quiet conversation scenes; the "skipping" (if that's what it was) was more noticeable during faster action scenes for obvious reasons, but I never didn't notice it.

I don't know enough about animation to pinpoint exactly what I think is wrong, but something was just off about it.

(If no one else noticed maybe it was just my stream acting up.)
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Posted 1/12/14
I enjoyed this - the world looks like it could be relatively unique, and the relatively large cast is made up of potentially interesting characters. (I could do without the perverted frog familiar/construct, though.)
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Posted 1/12/14

Insomnist wrote:


Vaporisor wrote:

Answer to the second question, couple reasons. First is common with CG/still frame animations. You have very fluid with something coarse. It becomes more noticable. Second is some action scenes seem to not use key frame style animation, and instead each frame is more keyframe to make a fluid and less jerky motion. Tough to do but really changes how action scenes feel. Reason it is so tough is cannot use secondary artists to fill in.

I... can't understand this paragraph.

The animation just felt jerky, like frames were missing. Even during quiet conversation scenes; the "skipping" (if that's what it was) was more noticeable during faster action scenes for obvious reasons, but I never didn't notice it.

I don't know enough about animation to pinpoint exactly what I think is wrong, but something was just off about it.

(If no one else noticed maybe it was just my stream acting up.)


I think it was just your stream acting up. >.> I can usually tell if an anime is jerky because of poorly done animation (Ben-to for instance). And I am not the type that analyzes a show for all its flaws while it's on.
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Posted 1/12/14 , edited 1/12/14

Insomnist wrote:

I... can't understand this paragraph.

The animation just felt jerky, like frames were missing. Even during quiet conversation scenes; the "skipping" (if that's what it was) was more noticeable during faster action scenes for obvious reasons, I never didn't notice it.

I don't know enough about animation to pinpoint exactly what I think is wrong, but something was off about it.


Aah. I cannot remember the Otaku terms for the artists, so I will call them primary and secondary. In low budget shows, there is something called the keyframe or primary artist. They are the high detail pros that draw main points in a characters motion. These are the Key Frames If you imagine a person at bat for baseball, the primary artist would draw for example:

1. Ready to swing
2. Mid swing
3. Follow through.

Then lower paid, or outsourced anime studios will fill in the intermediate frames. Good examples of shows like this are long run series like Naruto or bleach. It is why in most scenes they look like string puppets moving around.

In higher budget shows, there are more key frames. Typically able to be identified by more "extreme" or "fluid" actions because the main artist gives more references. This is a real talent that goes beyond being able to draw.

The last is when it is all key frames. There was a documentary on the history of artists posted by CR a while back that discussed this quite well. It is where the primary artist does every frame without putting in these key poses. Result is extremely natural motions without pause. The artist of Ghost in the Shell movie uses this technique which is one reason why it's animation stands out. You never have these "poses" changing the momentum of simple actions.

I do not know if this is the case for this show. But the action scenes, and specifically the magic casting seems to flow between motions. If they are using a different animation technique without pausing, then fewer frames might be used, but more the jerkiness inherent in animation becomes more noticable. One of the major things I noticed in this show is all characters appear to be constantly in motion attracting us to this jerkiness alot more. A budget tradeoff I would guess.

Edit: About drawn animation over CG backgrounds. The CG background will move geometrically perfect when it is rendered to match the programmed "camera" pathing. An artist has to match this and so sometimes there is very minor, but sometimes perceptable jerkiness.


kitsuneshoujo wrote:

I think it was just your stream acting up. >.> I can usually tell if an anime is jerky because of poorly done animation (Ben-to for instance). And I am not the type that analyzes a show for all its flaws while it's on. :)


When I get that on CR, my audio goes choppy as well. I think it is just not being as used to constant motion. As apposed to a character doing 1 second of motion then stopping, they are progressing through a full range of motion causing those who are more sensitive to higher frequencies to notice. I myself cannot stand 60hz screens of any sort. Right now I still use my 85 hz crts because I don't want to spend the money for high contrast 120 LED monitors. Also, fluorenscent lights because they flicker to me and give me bad headaches..
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Posted 1/12/14
I just realized this came out. I remember reading about it because it's the same art style as in "A Kite"...glad I checked this out.
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Posted 1/12/14

Evilshadowx wrote:

I just realized this came out. I remember reading about it because it's the same art style as in "A Kite"...glad I checked this out.


Same animator ^.^
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Posted 1/12/14

Vaporisor wrote:


Evilshadowx wrote:

I just realized this came out. I remember reading about it because it's the same art style as in "A Kite"...glad I checked this out.


Same animator ^.^


Yeah I figured that out. I love it!
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Posted 1/12/14 , edited 1/12/14

Vaporisor wrote:


Right, Sakuga. It's just that ANN divides animation into key animation, in-between animation, and second key animation, and I'm not sure what step in that process would be at fault for what I feel like I'm seeing (whatever that may be).

Let's just say it was my stream for now though, I didn't mean to make a big deal out of it.
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Posted 1/12/14

Insomnist wrote:

Right, Sakuga. It's just that ANN divides animation into key animation, in-between animation, and second key animation, and I'm not sure what step in that process would be at fault for what I feel like I'm seeing (whatever that may be).

Let's just say it was my stream for now though, I didn't mean to make a big deal out of it.


Aww... I thought it was fun

I like checking out stuff like this, and I was sorta thinking the same. It is just a bit different compared to most mainstream, I figured that is what it is for me. Noticing the little stuff because there is so much going on.

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Posted 1/12/14
I was reminded of Queen's Blade every time I look at Cecil. The facial features are what set that off for me. Pretty neat episode. Seemed like there was a lot of stuff going for just the first episode.
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Posted 1/12/14

shaunj07 wrote:

I was reminded of Queen's Blade every time I look at Cecil. The facial features are what set that off for me. Pretty neat episode. Seemed like there was a lot of stuff going for just the first episode.


OMG i kept thinking that too! I just kept saying, "Melona? is that you?"

Anyway, really liked this episode and the premise is great. It actually looks like it could have depth, especially with her mom? in prison for a reason we will hopefully learn.
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