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Are child abuse laws too strict?
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Posted 12/25/13
Well every person, family and area of upbringing are different so setting a ground rule that affects everybody the same is difficult. I don't really agree with hitting children but then a lot of parents can not control their children who do not respect them enough to listen to only words. Fortunately I had very polite parents and had a great upbringing even if I did turn out like this... Other children are not as fortunate or willing to be contributing members of society though.

As for child sexual abuse laws. I think we should just hang the bastards, no second chances.
Posted 12/25/13
This is my FAVOURITE christmas thread.
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Posted 12/25/13

haikinka wrote:

This is my FAVOURITE christmas thread.


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Posted 12/25/13
If a child brought a garden hose in the house and sprayed the kitchen, living room and hallway with it to ensure he won the water fight. how would you react? The electricity in half the house doesn't work and the fuse box is fried from someone stripping wires and touching the bare ends to random objects, you come home and your children are dancing on the 3rd story roof of the house.
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Posted 12/25/13

Frrrozn wrote:

Physical punishment shows that you lack the communication to help your child learn right from wrong.



I agree....to a point. I'm lucky. I have a son who responded to dialogue. He's a pretty good kid and in his 19 years, I never had to lift a hand in anger to him once. I take little credit for that simply because I he inherited his mother's laid back and nurturing personality. But the fact that I made myself available 24/7 any time he needed to talk and that I wouldn't judge him helped a bit. Having said all of that, I was a little bastard when I was young. My parents were always trying to communicate with me much in the same way I did with my son. However, I had to do things my way, all of the time. So I got the belt on the arse a few times and I damned well deserved it. It was never excessive.

But facts are facts: some kids are crap. Some kids don't respond to dialogue. Some kids need the belt on the arse once in a while. While I agree in principal with the author of the original quote, I see that he his only sixteen and I'll venture a guess to say that he's not a parent yet, (although these days, who knows...). So until he has kids of his own, he might want to get some more XP first before tossing out a fairly judgmental and short-sighted remark like that.

So talk to your kids first. If that doesn't work....redden their buttocks. Just don't beat 'em with a 2X4 or torture them with an olive fork.

Quarlo 
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Posted 12/25/13
I have no objection to punishment as long as it doesn't become abuse. I was punished by my parents and school teachers and let me tell you: what ever I did to deserve the punishment I never did again.

As much as I hate to say it, pain is a potent teacher. You only put you hand in a fire once!
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Posted 12/25/13
I'll say this. I was spanked as a child. I have never been to jail, I am not a violent person, and I make mistakes like everyone else. What I have seen, this doesn't apply to all children, is that children disciplined without physical punishment don't learn that there are serious consequences for their actions. I have seen my friends attempt to discipline their children without physical punishment, I hate those kids. Hate me for saying it, but their kids are some of the most misbehaved little shits on the planet. Now the very small group of friends that do spank their kids, are always little angels for me. I spanked my children and have always been told how well behaved they are. No matter how bad they may have got at home, they knew that when they are out in public they had to be on their best behavior. To me it seems that spanked children seem to cause the rest of us less trouble, as opposed to children that are not. Again, that is just my experience.
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Posted 12/25/13 , edited 12/30/13
I would never injure anyone/anything that isn't going to fight back. Teaching a child not to misbehave through fear is wrong on so many levels. I was only beaten once and yet I never received a detention at school or have been in trouble with the law. Of the one time I WAS hit I was too scared to be in the same room as my dad for 3 weeks. Don't you think it sounds disgusting when you put it into perspective? 'When my kids badly misbehave I hit them' any form of physical violence is at least battery and against the law and so I don't condone it towards anyone, especially children.

Think how it will be for the kids and what a ton of shit you might be in if the word gets out that you hit them? Good luck with parents letting their kids go round to the house of the people who are open to physical punishment. I think it's important to make sure the kid knows why what they did was wrong. Hitting a kid can bring the mentality of 'When my parents are mad with me they hit me, so surely since this kid isn't doing what I expect them to it's ok to hit them'. Though most of the time if a kid is misbehaving it's because of the way they were raised and the atmosphere they were raised in. Raise them well and you shouldn't need to discipline them to the point of violence anyway.

In direct response to the question, I'm not fully aware of what the laws are besides the fact that it's a criminal offence, but I feel as far as the laws are concerned they're fine as they are. It doesn't allow anyone to be violent towards children, and parents shouldn't be an exception.
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Posted 12/25/13 , edited 12/25/13

Frrrozn wrote:

Physical punishment shows that you lack the communication to help your child learn right from wrong.


That's true. It's hard to raise childrens. They often turns out to be either too strict or too spoiled. Neither of them are any good..
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Posted 12/25/13
My grandmother went threw a no spanking phase, Once I figured out that is she told me to go to my room and I said no, there was nothing else left since physical disciple was off limits I went on a rampage if she tried talking to me I would just leave if she took my Atari away I would just go take it back. physical punishment all was needs to be a option but should not be the first one.
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Posted 12/25/13

kmunroe110 wrote:

I'll say this. I was spanked as a child. I have never been to jail, I am not a violent person, and I make mistakes like everyone else. What I have seen, this doesn't apply to all children, is that children disciplined without physical punishment don't learn that there are serious consequences for their actions. I have seen my friends attempt to discipline their children without physical punishment, I hate those kids. Hate me for saying it, but their kids are some of the most misbehaved little shits on the planet. Now the very small group of friends that do spank their kids, are always little angels for me. I spanked my children and have always been told how well behaved they are. No matter how bad they may have got at home, they knew that when they are out in public they had to be on their best behavior. To me it seems that spanked children seem to cause the rest of us less trouble, as opposed to children that are not. Again, that is just my experience.


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Posted 12/25/13 , edited 12/25/13
I don't see how corporal punishment teaches anyone what the consequences of their actions are. If you've heard of the logical fallacy called Post Hoc (or correlation vs causation), you may be able to recognize that it's actually very common for people to have difficulty determining, on their own, what are the actual consequences of an event or action. In fact, the simplest logical conclusion a child might draw is, "If I steal candy from the grocery store, my mom/dad will hit me," in which case the child still needs to learn what happens when mom and dad aren't around to see it.

That said, I think the form of punishment is going to really depend on the mindset of the child being punished. The important thing is to understand your children. It could be that physical pain is enough of a shock to your child that they will proactively seek the underlying reasons for why they were punished that way and take measures to avoid that in the future. However, touting corporal punishment, or the lack thereof, as a one-size-fits-all solution to parenting is more like projecting your opinion onto others.

To answer the original question, I'm inclined to trust the studies that claim anything more than one or two hits is counter-productive. The laws are probably fine as they are.
Posted 12/25/13 , edited 12/25/13
In my psych classes I've learned about the effects of hitting children and so on, your child may become more complacent to you, but they can internalize a lot of anger and hatred. They also tend to fear their parents more and may try to close you out. Children also when viewing violence will repeat those acts, and even actually go to further lengths.

If I were to have a child I would not harm them in such a way, I used to think spanking or so on would be an appropriate response to things, but after studying how it can affect my child I will try my best not to lay hands on them and to instead use my words, also I would use other methods of punishment. (Taking away things they were given if they cause a problem with it, time out, and so on.)

As for the laws, no, I do not feel they are too strict.


DuppyConqueror wrote:


dankuuwut wrote:

Yeeeaaahhh, you do not have to beat a child to make it understand that stealing is illegal. In fact, you do not even have to yell at a child to make it understand that stealing is illegal. Your disapproval is enough. Because your child looks up to you. Do not give them long and confusing explanations or try to rationalize with them, simply disapprove. If that is a very difficult concept to comprehend then we are all probably better off if you do not spawn more copies of yourself. This goes to anyone it may concern.


Lol this isnt a drama. This is real life. No kid is going to be like "oh i can tell that dad is dissapointed so im not going to do it again." What the kid is really thinking is "how do i do steal with out getting caught next time?"

I stole from my step dad when i was like 7. got my ass beat. Never did it again.


You're right, this isn't a drama, but dankwuuwut's post coincides most well with the studies that have been done on parenting children, unlike yours, which seems much more 'fitting' for a drama about abusive parents.

You never did it again not because you necessarily learned it was wrong, just that you did not want to be beaten again. It puts fear into your child. They are not learning to do right because it is right, they are learning to do 'right' just so they won't get beaten up for it. That is not respect, and it is in no way healthy to raise a child filled with fear instilled by someone they should have a very deep emotional connection with and feel secure with. They're not punching bags, they are human beings just as any adult and any adult that beats their child to teach them something does not deserve to be called a parent.
jetah 
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Posted 12/25/13 , edited 12/25/13
physical pain is a teacher. this teacher exist in the world.

to say that we can talk to children and they'll learn is like standing on the highway telling people they need to slow down. children's minds switch fast to different subjects. the pain is a method for them to focus on the situation then you can talk to them.

like DuppyConqueror I was beat with belts, switches and I turned out fine as well.
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Posted 12/25/13

jetah wrote:

physical pain is a teacher. this teacher exist in the world.

to say that we can talk to children and they'll learn is like standing on the highway telling people they need to slow down. children's minds switch fast to different subjects. the pain is a method for them to focus on the situation then you can talk to them.

like DuppyConqueror I was beat with belts, switches and I turned out fine as well.
I got hit by cars tons of times when I was a kid, and I turned out fine. Guess I better hit my kid with a car.
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