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Posted 1/6/14

dcforeman wrote:


iblessall wrote:

I've been paying more attention to regional restrictions with this current season since I'm moving to the UK in just a few days now, and it looks to me like CR heard the complaints from last season & got the licenses for almost all of the new shows for the UK.

As has been said in many other threads on this topic, the regional thing isn't always totally CR's fault. We don't even know if OP/Toriko had licenses for the UK for sale. CR generally tries to get as wide of a spread as possible, so I would theorize that it is something other than them just not caring about the UK that is the reason for them not getting OP/Toriko for the UK.


I'm not saying crunchyroll don't care, I'm saying they need a more hardline "International or no" stance. All crunchyroll premium subscribers pay the same amount regardless of where they are. If they adopted a UK gets 95% of anime therefore we will charge them 95% stance, then I'd have no issue. But they don't, they charge the maximum amount they can.

Why should I be paying the same as america for less content?

I understand what you are saying. I really do.

However, although you are arguing from principle, I would also like to suggest that 1) the price any premium subscriber pays for the amount of content (although yes, the ratios are unequal) is pretty cheap. If it was $20/month, instead of $7 (obvi assuming comparable UK pricies), I suppose I might be supportive. As it is, the content:price ratio is absurdly good.

2) Additionally, as has been stated in earlier threads, there is the issue of income vs. cost for CR. If they aren't making the income they need to be profitable in the UK, then that means that subscribers in other regions like the US are footing the bill to license anime in countries besides their own. I don't think you'd argue that's fair in any sense of the word.

3) As has been said above, we all know the content we are getting when we start paying. So it's not like any of us have been duped into thinking that we were getting one thing and got another. If you don't like the service, you don't have to pay.

4) If you want to support more anime coming the UK, keep paying! That will demonstrate that there is support for it, it can be profitable and will ultimately make anime more accessible in the UK.

5) As to the 95% price thing, what do you propose to serve as the baseline for that? Total anime coming out of Japan? Whatever the highest distribution region is? Whatever the US is getting?
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Posted 1/6/14 , edited 1/6/14

iblessall wrote:
I understand what you are saying. I really do.

However, although you are arguing from principle, I would also like to suggest that 1) the price any premium subscriber pays for the amount of content (although yes, the ratios are unequal) is pretty cheap. If it was $20/month, instead of $7 (obvi assuming comparable UK pricies), I suppose I might be supportive. As it is, the content:price ratio is absurdly good.

2) Additionally, as has been stated in earlier threads, there is the issue of income vs. cost for CR. If they aren't making the income they need to be profitable in the UK, then that means that subscribers in other regions like the US are footing the bill to license anime in countries besides their own. I don't think you'd argue that's fair in any sense of the word.

3) As has been said above, we all know the content we are getting when we start paying. So it's not like any of us have been duped into thinking that we were getting one thing and got another. If you don't like the service, you don't have to pay.

4) If you want to support more anime coming the UK, keep paying! That will demonstrate that there is support for it, it can be profitable and will ultimately make anime more accessible in the UK.

5) As to the 95% price thing, what do you propose to serve as the baseline for that? Total anime coming out of Japan? Whatever the highest distribution region is? Whatever the US is getting?


1) You say that, but this is how subscription based services are. Netflix, lovefilm, nowtv, and other subscriber services offer the same amount of content to price ratio. It has been proven to be a sustainable model repeatedly by now. Also remember Crunchyroll makes additional revenue from store purchases as well, plus advertising deals.

2) CR doesn't just make cash from premium subscribers, there's also the various advertising deals, product placements and side item sales. Body pillow anyone? If they want to be more profitable they need to promote more, if I wasn't an anime buff I'd never have heard about them. Either way, if the UK really isn't profitable they should drop support completely for international communities, and focus solely on the US. I presume they don't do this simply because it would cost them profit in one way or another.

3) No I didn't not when I first started. When I first signed up to Crunchyroll I was all "yay legal anime, whoo!" the likes of bleach and other big name titles on there captured my complete attention. It really wasn't until one piece came to churchyroll that I particularly noticed that regional restrictions appearing. Up until then they'd mostly been small titles I didn't really care about. A few 13 - 24 episode one offs didn't bother me. But one piece has something like 600+ episodes and the other will likely go on for as long as bleach. That's a pretty sizeable chunk not being offered, and 1000+ episodes or approx 330 hours, is pretty significant. This is the point where it starts to affect my personal cost to episode ratio.

4) Quite the opposite I think, if crunchyroll can't provide it, then they should get out of the way so another company can.

5) Calculate total number of available episodes / minutes of video on the service (Total Number of Minutes). Calculate the total number of minutes for the region (TNMR). Take the american price (AP). Use the sum, TNMR / TNM = Percentage. AP * Percentage = USD then convert USD to GBP. There you go easy peasy.

For example. If TNM = 10000 episodes, and TNMR = 9000, then TNMR / TNM = 90% or 0.9. I've converted the UK price of £4.99 to $8.19 ((I suspect americans don't actually pay that much) btw I pay the £8.99 for the manga as well) so that'll be $8.19 * 0.9 = $7.37 which back to GBP is £4.49.

This is a simple sum any PHP programmer can come up with and automate.
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Posted 1/6/14 , edited 1/6/14

dcforeman wrote:

1) You say that, but this is how subscription based services are. Netflix, lovefilm, nowtv, and other subscriber services offer the same amount of content to price ratio. It has been proven to be a sustainable model repeatedly by now. Also remember Crunchyroll makes additional revenue from store purchases as well, plus advertising deals.

2) CR doesn't just make cash from premium subscribers, there's also the various advertising deals, product placements and side item sales. Body pillow anyone? If they want to be more profitable they need to promote more, if I wasn't an anime buff I'd never have heard about them. Either way, if the UK really isn't profitable they should drop support completely for international communities, and focus solely on the US. I presume they don't do this simply because it would cost them profit in one way or another.

3) No I didn't not when I first started. When I first signed up to Crunchyroll I was all "yay legal anime, whoo!" the likes of bleach and other big name titles on there captured my complete attention. It really wasn't until one piece came to churchyroll that I particularly noticed that regional restrictions appearing. Up until then they'd mostly been small titles I didn't really care about. A few 13 - 24 episode one offs didn't bother me. But one piece has something like 600+ episodes and the other will likely go on for as long as bleach. That's a pretty sizeable chunk not being offered, and 1000+ episodes or approx 330 hours, is pretty significant. This is the point where it starts to affect my personal cost to episode ratio.

4) Quite the opposite I think, if crunchyroll can't provide it, then they should get out of the way so another company can.

5) Calculate total number of available episodes / minutes of video on the service (Total Number of Minutes). Calculate the total number of minutes for the region (TNMR). Take the american price (AP). Use the sum, TNMR / TNM = Percentage. AP * Percentage = USD then convert USD to GBP. There you go easy peasy.

For example. If TNM = 10000 episodes, and TNMR = 9000, then TNMR / TNM = 90% or 0.9. I've converted the UK price of £4.99 to $8.19 ((I suspect americans don't actually pay that much) btw I pay the £8.99 for the manga as well) so that'll be $8.19 * 0.9 = $7.37 which back to GBP is £4.49.

This is a simple sum any PHP programmer can come up with and automate.


American company catering more for american people? WHAT THE DICKENS WATSON!?

The reason netflix + lovefilm can offer so much content is there undeniable -SIZE- they are huge(still an understatement) with there size any program would be happy if they chapped them asking if they could stream x y z. I've been using netflix since it first became available in the uk and it had the same problem as crunchyroll. UK were not using the service as much as the us so why bother paying more? When you can make more in profit.

Until such a time where the UK subcribers grow to the point of profitability.. Why should they bother? What's the point in a buisness when you are making no money? It's not a charity.
The Wise Wizard
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Posted 1/6/14

dcforeman wrote:

I pay the same amount as americans, for less content. In what universe is that fair? I live in the United Kingdom, I have been a crunchyroll subscriber very nearly ever since they went legitimate. I love anime, I love supporting the studios that make it.

But there is a growing trend on crunchyroll that frankly pisses me off. That is now that two popular manga's turned anime are now available "if you happen to be an american". My money is as good as theirs isn't it? I'm paying the same amount as them. So why in the hell should I not get the same amount of content?

It's unfair to the international customers. Bleach is international, Naruto is international, so is hunter x hunter, so why in the living name of hell is one piece and toriko allowed on Crunchyroll at all?

Kick them off, or make them available to all your customers. It's time funnimation and these other idiot distributors learn that international restrictions are not only retarded, but it's going to bloody well cost them money.

I hope you realize that if CR was "the world or nothing", you would have a far smaller list of anime available to you than you do now. There are many countries in the world that would love to have the same number of titles available to them as the UK has. Just as the world doesn't end with the US, it doesn't end with the UK, either.

As to the "paying less for less content", there are a number of problems with that. Content provides expect a certain minimum guarantee for each show, and there are fixed contract costs to cover, which means anime isn't a fixed cost per subscriber stream regardless of region. Regions with smaller viewership are at a distinct disadvantage. (Alexa currently reports the US as 45.8% of CR traffic, while the UK comes in 3rd at 3.6%).

If CR were a UK-only operation, it wouldn't be able to provide nearly as many titles to you. (If you need proof of this, just look at Animax UK, Wakanim.co.uk, or the now departed Anime on Demand).

You also have the problem of mobility. What if someone subscribes in the UK but then visits or moves to another country where more or fewer titles are available? What if they use a proxy or VPN to that country?

You also have Netflix in your country, yet the library is substantially smaller than in the US, yet the last time I saw the pricing listed, it was comparable. All users get far more anime now (even more simulcasts per season) than a few years ago, yet the rates remain the same.


Keep in mind aside from the two "solutions" you listed, there is a third:
Crunchyroll abandons the international market and becomes a US/Canada only operation like Funimation, VIZ, and The Anime Network.

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Lol The Wise Wizard has spoken
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Posted 1/6/14

DeathlyForceX wrote:


dcforeman wrote:

I'm not saying crunchyroll don't care, I'm saying they need a more hardline "International or no" stance. All crunchyroll premium subscribers pay the same amount regardless of where they are. If they adopted a UK gets 95% of anime therefore we will charge them 95% stance, then I'd have no issue. But they don't, they charge the maximum amount they can.

Why should I be paying the same as america for less content?

I can definitely understand your anger and as much as I really dislike those regional restrictions too, it isn't that easy.

See it from another perspective for a moment. If you would lower the price for certain regions you can bet some people will start to abuse the price system to get an cheaper price if they don't mind the lack of some titles. Refusing all distributors who don't want to provide services worldwide isn't a solution either. They will simply go away and go to another streaming site... That wouldn't solve anything either.


Problem is, there's no easy answer but this is a major problem of perception. Well, that and convenience and preference. But primarily perception.

As far as I can tell, the premium price works out to be pretty much the same the world over. And what you really get for you money is this:
- HD access to shows, as long as they're in HD.
- Same-day access to simulcasts, in most cases.
- No advertising on videos under your subscription. (A major advantage over... some other services)
- Access to viewer apps on supported platforms, rather than being reliant on the web.
- Larger library
- Better support
- Store discounts

The problem, though, is that this is what it looks like you're getting for your money:
- Pretty much every Crunchyroll-licensed show, if you live in Northern America
- A pretty high chunk of the "Crunchyroll shows" if you are in the UK (Disclaimer: This may or may not include any specific show you are interested in)
- A variable chunk of the "Crunchyroll shows" if you are in other regions (Disclaimer: This may or may not include any specific show you are interested in)

And this is where the dissatisfaction slams in hard.

From a service point of view, we get exactly the same regardless of location.
But if you live outside of the US and Canada, you only get an "incomplete" library. Doubly frustrating if in any given season you get 90% of the simulcasts, but were only interested in the 10% "missing" shows.

Yes, other services exist but:
1) There is no guarantee that any local service will pick up the rights.
2) Even if they do, there is no guarantee that the service suits your needs as well as CR would.
3) Once CR announces them, they still seem like "Crunchyroll shows" even in other territories.

So regardless of the reality of the situation, the perceived facts are that you are "Paying the same price but getting a reduced service".
Even if that isn't the whole truth.

As I said at the beginning, I don't know what the answer is. Or even if there is one. But this is a problem that will just continue to get tensions running high.
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Posted 1/6/14

iblessall wrote:
3) As has been said above, we all know the content we are getting when we start paying. So it's not like any of us have been duped into thinking that we were getting one thing and got another. If you don't like the service, you don't have to pay.

4) If you want to support more anime coming the UK, keep paying! That will demonstrate that there is support for it, it can be profitable and will ultimately make anime more accessible in the UK.


3) Technically, you are correct. We know the content we are getting "when we start paying". Going forward, though, we don't. We hope CR get the shows that interest us. Sometimes another ocmpany gets the shows outright.
But then sometimes we see the headline of " Taichi's Amazing Interstellar Escapades available this coming season." But then, outside of US/Canada, there is the chance of those little words.... "Excluding <insert your region here>" (And I have a suspicion I've heard of at least one or two shows which are excluded from America)

So we get a guarantee of the current library. And a guarantee of some future shows. But no guarantee that if CR licenses a show it will necessarily show up where you live.

4) That's why I re-subbed this time around. Well, that and i went for the Black Friday deal. But if they don't get a better "Hit Ratio" of the shows that actually interest me as opposed to the ones I don't care about, I won't bother renewing at the end of the year.
And if anyone in the UK, or other excluded countries, wanted to drop their sub I wouldn't blame them. After all, if a subscription service don't get the shows you're interested in, how long should you continue to support them on the off-chance they can afford to support your region next time.

if every UK subscriber dropped their subscription, would I be disappointed if it meant CR couldn't affrd even this muhc in the Uk going forwards? Probably.
But I wouldn't expect everyone to keep paying if their "pet shows" end up going elsewhere.
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Posted 1/6/14

otsohiru wrote:


dcforeman wrote:

1) You say that, but this is how subscription based services are. Netflix, lovefilm, nowtv, and other subscriber services offer the same amount of content to price ratio. It has been proven to be a sustainable model repeatedly by now. Also remember Crunchyroll makes additional revenue from store purchases as well, plus advertising deals.

2) CR doesn't just make cash from premium subscribers, there's also the various advertising deals, product placements and side item sales. Body pillow anyone? If they want to be more profitable they need to promote more, if I wasn't an anime buff I'd never have heard about them. Either way, if the UK really isn't profitable they should drop support completely for international communities, and focus solely on the US. I presume they don't do this simply because it would cost them profit in one way or another.

3) No I didn't not when I first started. When I first signed up to Crunchyroll I was all "yay legal anime, whoo!" the likes of bleach and other big name titles on there captured my complete attention. It really wasn't until one piece came to churchyroll that I particularly noticed that regional restrictions appearing. Up until then they'd mostly been small titles I didn't really care about. A few 13 - 24 episode one offs didn't bother me. But one piece has something like 600+ episodes and the other will likely go on for as long as bleach. That's a pretty sizeable chunk not being offered, and 1000+ episodes or approx 330 hours, is pretty significant. This is the point where it starts to affect my personal cost to episode ratio.

4) Quite the opposite I think, if crunchyroll can't provide it, then they should get out of the way so another company can.

5) Calculate total number of available episodes / minutes of video on the service (Total Number of Minutes). Calculate the total number of minutes for the region (TNMR). Take the american price (AP). Use the sum, TNMR / TNM = Percentage. AP * Percentage = USD then convert USD to GBP. There you go easy peasy.

For example. If TNM = 10000 episodes, and TNMR = 9000, then TNMR / TNM = 90% or 0.9. I've converted the UK price of £4.99 to $8.19 ((I suspect americans don't actually pay that much) btw I pay the £8.99 for the manga as well) so that'll be $8.19 * 0.9 = $7.37 which back to GBP is £4.49.

This is a simple sum any PHP programmer can come up with and automate.


American company catering more for american people? WHAT THE DICKENS WATSON!?

The reason netflix + lovefilm can offer so much content is there undeniable -SIZE- they are huge(still an understatement) with there size any program would be happy if they chapped them asking if they could stream x y z. I've been using netflix since it first became available in the uk and it had the same problem as crunchyroll. UK were not using the service as much as the us so why bother paying more? When you can make more in profit.

Until such a time where the UK subcribers grow to the point of profitability.. Why should they bother? What's the point in a buisness when you are making no money? It's not a charity.


I don't see any evidence that the UK isn't making them any profit, does anyone have any verifiable sources stating this or is it simply assumption and guesswork?
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Posted 1/6/14

TheAncientOne wrote:

I hope you realize that if CR was "the world or nothing", you would have a far smaller list of anime available to you than you do now. There are many countries in the world that would love to have the same number of titles available to them as the UK has. Just as the world doesn't end with the US, it doesn't end with the UK, either.

As to the "paying less for less content", there are a number of problems with that. Content provides expect a certain minimum guarantee for each show, and there are fixed contract costs to cover, which means anime isn't a fixed cost per subscriber stream regardless of region. Regions with smaller viewership are at a distinct disadvantage. (Alexa currently reports the US as 45.8% of CR traffic, while the UK comes in 3rd at 3.6%).

If CR were a UK-only operation, it wouldn't be able to provide nearly as many titles to you. (If you need proof of this, just look at Animax UK, Wakanim.co.uk, or the now departed Anime on Demand).

You also have the problem of mobility. What if someone subscribes in the UK but then visits or moves to another country where more or fewer titles are available? What if they use a proxy or VPN to that country?

You also have Netflix in your country, yet the library is substantially smaller than in the US, yet the last time I saw the pricing listed, it was comparable. All users get far more anime now (even more simulcasts per season) than a few years ago, yet the rates remain the same.


Keep in mind aside from the two "solutions" you listed, there is a third:
Crunchyroll abandons the international market and becomes a US/Canada only operation like Funimation, VIZ, and The Anime Network.



And those countries should get access as well. This regional rubbish is nonsense. What's actually stopping any company producing a contract that says "for this much you get world wide release rights?"

The only reason for this sort of thing happening is when cable TV, or satellite companies bought exclusive contracts for a reigon. This doesn't happen as much with anime does it? There might be a few countries with heavy cable anime channels, but the UK certainly isn't one of them, and the countries that don't get access to these titles probably don't have channels like this either.

If companies pull up their big boy pants and start treating this is a global market, with proper international contracts, then "how much profit" they make from the UK, or another smaller country has no meaning anymore. It's how much profit do they make from the whole Crunchyroll community as a whole.

If the internet age has shown one thing, it's that fans of content are going to get that content one way or another, if they keep leaving us with no way "but the other" then the vast majority will just take "the other" and that then leaves several generations of people who don't see the point in paying for anything at all, because they can just use "the other" way of getting it.

This is the kind of thing companies like crunchyroll pander too when they accept any kind of regional restriction. They should know this well because once upon a time they themselves where "the other".
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Posted 1/6/14

dcforeman wrote:

And those countries should get access as well. This regional rubbish is nonsense. What's actually stopping any company producing a contract that says "for this much you get world wide release rights?"

The only reason for this sort of thing happening is when cable TV, or satellite companies bought exclusive contracts for a reigon. This doesn't happen as much with anime does it? There might be a few countries with heavy cable anime channels, but the UK certainly isn't one of them, and the countries that don't get access to these titles probably don't have channels like this either.

If companies pull up their big boy pants and start treating this is a global market, with proper international contracts, then "how much profit" they make from the UK, or another smaller country has no meaning anymore. It's how much profit do they make from the whole Crunchyroll community as a whole.

If the internet age has shown one thing, it's that fans of content are going to get that content one way or another, if they keep leaving us with no way "but the other" then the vast majority will just take "the other" and that then leaves several generations of people who don't see the point in paying for anything at all, because they can just use "the other" way of getting it.

This is the kind of thing companies like crunchyroll pander too when they accept any kind of regional restriction. They should know this well because once upon a time they themselves where "the other".

Home video releases (DVD/BD) still follow regional restrictions, so it certainly isn't just about TV broadcasts.

Frankly, it is naive to believe CR could bully anime licensors into "international or none" contracts. CR doesn't bring in the money of home video licenses, and it also isn't the only game in town for internet streaming in many countries.

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Posted 1/7/14 , edited 1/7/14

TheAncientOne wrote:


dcforeman wrote:

And those countries should get access as well. This regional rubbish is nonsense. What's actually stopping any company producing a contract that says "for this much you get world wide release rights?"

The only reason for this sort of thing happening is when cable TV, or satellite companies bought exclusive contracts for a reigon. This doesn't happen as much with anime does it? There might be a few countries with heavy cable anime channels, but the UK certainly isn't one of them, and the countries that don't get access to these titles probably don't have channels like this either.

If companies pull up their big boy pants and start treating this is a global market, with proper international contracts, then "how much profit" they make from the UK, or another smaller country has no meaning anymore. It's how much profit do they make from the whole Crunchyroll community as a whole.

If the internet age has shown one thing, it's that fans of content are going to get that content one way or another, if they keep leaving us with no way "but the other" then the vast majority will just take "the other" and that then leaves several generations of people who don't see the point in paying for anything at all, because they can just use "the other" way of getting it.

This is the kind of thing companies like crunchyroll pander too when they accept any kind of regional restriction. They should know this well because once upon a time they themselves where "the other".

Home video releases (DVD/BD) still follow regional restrictions, so it certainly isn't just about TV broadcasts.

Frankly, it is naive to believe CR could bully anime licensors into "international or none" contracts. CR doesn't bring in the money of home video licenses, and it also isn't the only game in town for internet streaming in many countries.



What you are describing are issues with local distribution, manufacturing capacity, a DVD or Bluray company can't deliver world wide, either due to lack of capacity, contacts or the ability to push the product.

This doesn't apply to services such as Crunchyroll, anyone with an internet connection of a high enough quality can access the content anywhere in the world. The issue for Crunchyroll, which they have largely managed to overcome is how well known they are in their field.

Logically speaking there is absolutely no reason at all for any regional restriction to be placed on any content designed for internet broadcasting. After all it's not like there IS a big competitor in the international market. Funnimation's site is riddled of US only restrictive content. This is an outdated concept that belongs back in the 90's. The simple name of the game for both crunchyroll and the crunchyroll content providers, should be, they more subscribers they get, and the more views they get, the higher the profit. The only reason for any kind of regional restriction should be aimed at the Free-to-view model, that is the advert supported model. There's no point in showing adverts about an american toothpaste, to a bunch of people in Czech, so naturally these companies shouldn't be paying for that kind of demographic. But this would work well for CR, after all the frustration of "not getting content due to lack of advertising support" would force customers in these area's to take out a premium subscription.

It's outdated practices like his that really hold back the development of global online communities like this one.

It's in crunchyrolls best interest, especially at it is the leader in the field right now (lets face it, their biggest competitor go to pirate sites who obviously don't suffer such restrictions) not to take his kind of BS.
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Posted 1/9/14

FkYouBish wrote:

You can use a proxy IP and use an American IP address to watch those


I recommend this too. There are some free proxies out there, but most limit the bandwidth.
Of course if you're really a big consumer of media, you could just pay for a VPN service with servers in the US, which isn't that much in absolute terms.

I personally sympathize but it's basically the only thing you can do for streaming. There's no way to convince the Japanese licensors other than to stream what is already available in your area. That definitely helps, but very slowly. For the rest that is blocked off, proxies/VPN as I said, or hell just download as it really makes no difference and the ethics are justified by you paying already.

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Posted 1/9/14
Using proxies isn't a bad idea if you want to ensure you get the same level of quantity as the US does. I do it for a few series as well, but that doesn't mean i like to do this. The general impression i've been getting from the UK community, and some of Europe, albeit i don't always discuss much with them, is that while other services specific to an area is nice for things, being able to keep everything in one place would be better for them in terms of money and ease. So the reasoning behind wanting everything on crunchyroll to be as unrestricted as possible is to place all their choice of subscription into one place, instead of 2-3.

Wakanim provides a fairly unique alternative at the moment as well, in that there is an option for "Download to Own". While perhaps pricy in some eyes(i think it's meant to be going for £1.40ish an episode), you can download it and own it entirely legally. Having this service co-inside with one subscription service would be the most optimal for the general userbase i feel, as it allows for those that would rather stream, do so through the premium subscription or free, and those that want to download and watch on the go, in their own time, etc get to do that via the other service.

It's still something that needs work, and it may require distributors in the UK, europe to work alongside Crunchyroll to achieve more than just "Hey, UK guys, throw us your money and we'll support you", but i think it's doable. If it meant the premium went up a £1 or 2 on this end, i don't mind. I would just rather everything in one place, and not have to rely on either proxies or other means to get what i want to watch. That's just how i view it, so yeah.

This turned out a longer post than anticipated O_o woops
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