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The Holocaust Question
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Posted 2/13/14

tehstud wrote:

Like a boss?


wtf does that even mean in context with this thread?

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Posted 2/14/14

uncletim wrote:


tehstud wrote:

Like a boss?


wtf does that even mean in context with this thread?



Russians... like a boss?
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Posted 2/14/14

tehstud wrote:


uncletim wrote:


tehstud wrote:

Like a boss?


wtf does that even mean in context with this thread?



Russians... like a boss?


try again or stop trolling this is not the thread for that

Posted 2/14/14

aGreekSudaneseGerman wrote:

Did you know that a lot of WW2 pictures were edited by the allied forces to make the Nazi-German regime to seem even more cruel?
Needless to say, the fact that people neglect other atrocities committed during WW2 is pretty bad and symbolic of how degenerated society has become nowadays.


Yeah obviously,propaganda.
cosham 
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Posted 2/14/14

uncletim wrote:


tehstud wrote:

Like a boss?


wtf does that even mean in context with this thread?



Probably referring to my comment, only a fool would argue that the Holocaust did not happen.
Posted 2/20/14 , edited 2/20/14
I think this might be a good book for OP. I haven't read it myself (was looking for other books when I came across it) but it could prove useful in answering your questions.

The Holocaust and the Postmodern - Robert Eaglestone

"- Offers new perspectives on Holocaust testimony and recent Holocaust literature
- Demonstrates the significance of the Holocaust for contemporary philosophy
- Provides a new outlook on the controversies in Holocaust history
- Ranges widely, covering literature, history, philosophy, and Holocaust studies"
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Posted 2/20/14

aGreekSudaneseGerman The general German population did not know about the war crimes that the Nazis committed, guess what, neither did the allied civilians.

So now we concluded, they were 100% guilty of the same crime.


Wow. Hah.

There are still a few in the world, I guess. I would have thought they'd have a better act than that.

Of course they knew. Almost everyone knew, during the war. They filled the streets and platforms and cheered as they were marched into Ghettos. The wrote incriminating journal entries filled with racial pride when they got home. They filled ledgers with the train cars recorded, and coyly denied it afterwards, until the written evidence was shoved under their noses.

All Germans were resistance in the war a cocktail parties now, or equivocating "everyone is the same" apologists. Of course. I've heard that from everyone old enough to have been there over champagne and cognac. There aren't many left, now. Of course, they are all lying, especially to themselves. Resist? Don't be silly. If they had, it would never have happened, no one in the room, almost, was in the least sympathetic.

The ones I loved to talk to was the one who would scoff openly at their peers. "Of course we knew! Nonsense!" It helped to ply them with drink.

Newspapers reported the glory of the Wehrmacht, and the new territories they were expanding into. Concentration camps were built in Germany, manned by Germans. Turnover was high. The screaming children and howling women got to people, even those committed to the idea Jews, Roma and Russians were animals. Eventually, the camps were manned by a concentrated poison of psychopaths and sociopaths from every Axis-aligned army in Europe, but especially Austria and Germany.

People went home from the camps to their wives. They beat them. They stopped sleeping. They drank, to silence the screams. Rumors spread. Not-so-coded phrases for the fate of the Jews were used, that basically meant extermination to everyone. Nevermind the escapees who sometimes returned, begging for help.

But, you didn't need that. You can't move millions, in a Europe still mostly powered by horses and feet, without people knowing. And smelling. They saw them crowded into ghettoes, then onto train platforms, then they heard from those returning from the front. It was no secret.

They knew. They were, many of them, glad. Others, indifferent. Others... cowards.

Saying they didn't know spits on the honor of nations that actually resisted. Italy knew, and was doubtfully cooperative, to the point where few Jews were shipped out. Spain sneered and ignored Hitler, although that was probably just Franco. Denmark, incredibly bravely, showed amazing heroism in keeping the Nazis away from their Jews, most of whom survived the war.

Not every country acted the same. Many were shameful. Austria, the worst. Germany, next. The list goes on. Some were in a position to resist, others not. Any that did found the Nazis gave up fairly easily. It was expensive enough to find and move Jews during a war with the wholesale cooperation of the population.

As for the "same crime", save your equivocation. No one is impressed. I've heard that argument from men who pulled knives in bars, and got beaten down. It sounds as childish from their mashed, sulking lips as it does from every revisionist. You are just conflating state crimes with individual soldiers acting on their own.

If a few German soldiers had committed crimes, and the staff had punished them, or even ignored it, it would still be an anecdote and a crime, nothing more. This was a state policy of mass murder, supported by the general populace at the time. Only a sophist would argue there is any meaningful comparison with how the allies behaved after the war. There was certainly no policy of murder from the big three. They were, you know, in a position to conduct one, but it never occurred to them to try.

They considered such behavior wormlike. As it is.

I can't speak to each nation or every incident, but the numbers don't balance. Germans lost their lives during the war, and after the war. But equating that with extermination is cravenly self-serving, and doesn't sound like anything else to most people, Most Germans born after the war included.
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Posted 2/20/14

crypticcrunch wrote:


aGreekSudaneseGerman The general German population did not know about the war crimes that the Nazis committed, guess what, neither did the allied civilians.

So now we concluded, they were 100% guilty of the same crime.


Wow. Hah.

There are still a few in the world, I guess. I would have thought they'd have a better act than that.

Of course they knew. Almost everyone knew, during the war. They filled the streets and platforms and cheered as they were marched into Ghettos. The wrote incriminating journal entries filled with racial pride when they got home. They filled ledgers with the train cars recorded, and coyly denied it afterwards, until the written evidence was shoved under their noses.

All Germans were resistance in the war a cocktail parties now, or equivocating "everyone is the same" apologists. Of course. I've heard that from everyone old enough to have been there over champagne and cognac. There aren't many left, now. Of course, they are all lying, especially to themselves. Resist? Don't be silly. If they had, it would never have happened, no one in the room, almost, was in the least sympathetic.

The ones I loved to talk to was the one who would scoff openly at their peers. "Of course we knew! Nonsense!" It helped to ply them with drink.

Newspapers reported the glory of the Wehrmacht, and the new territories they were expanding into. Concentration camps were built in Germany, manned by Germans. Turnover was high. The screaming children and howling women got to people, even those committed to the idea Jews, Roma and Russians were animals. Eventually, the camps were manned by a concentrated poison of psychopaths and sociopaths from every Axis-aligned army in Europe, but especially Austria and Germany.

People went home from the camps to their wives. They beat them. They stopped sleeping. They drank, to silence the screams. Rumors spread. Not-so-coded phrases for the fate of the Jews were used, that basically meant extermination to everyone. Nevermind the escapees who sometimes returned, begging for help.

But, you didn't need that. You can't move millions, in a Europe still mostly powered by horses and feet, without people knowing. And smelling. They saw them crowded into ghettoes, then onto train platforms, then they heard from those returning from the front. It was no secret.

They knew. They were, many of them, glad. Others, indifferent. Others... cowards.

Saying they didn't know spits on the honor of nations that actually resisted. Italy knew, and was doubtfully cooperative, to the point where few Jews were shipped out. Spain sneered and ignored Hitler, although that was probably just Franco. Denmark, incredibly bravely, showed amazing heroism in keeping the Nazis away from their Jews, most of whom survived the war.

Not every country acted the same. Many were shameful. Austria, the worst. Germany, next. The list goes on. Some were in a position to resist, others not. Any that did found the Nazis gave up fairly easily. It was expensive enough to find and move Jews during a war with the wholesale cooperation of the population.

As for the "same crime", save your equivocation. No one is impressed. I've heard that argument from men who pulled knives in bars, and got beaten down. It sounds as childish from their mashed, sulking lips as it does from every revisionist. You are just conflating state crimes with individual soldiers acting on their own.

If a few German soldiers had committed crimes, and the staff had punished them, or even ignored it, it would still be an anecdote and a crime, nothing more. This was a state policy of mass murder, supported by the general populace at the time. Only a sophist would argue there is any meaningful comparison with how the allies behaved after the war. There was certainly no policy of murder from the big three. They were, you know, in a position to conduct one, but it never occurred to them to try.

They considered such behavior wormlike. As it is.

I can't speak to each nation or every incident, but the numbers don't balance. Germans lost their lives during the war, and after the war. But equating that with extermination is cravenly self-serving, and doesn't sound like anything else to most people, Most Germans born after the war included.

Wow, I didn't realise people like you still existed on planet earth. Also your English is a 7 from a scale out of 10 which made it hard for me to understand at some points.


Nice one, honestly, that logic. Flawless. I am amazed, let's not forget about the millions of war crimes that our nations commit alright? Shhhhhh let's not talk about them, let's talk about bad boy Nazi Germany.
There is a profound difference between GERMANY and NAZI GERMANY. You see, one is a simple proper noun whereas the other is a Noun phrase which has been modified. The fact that it has been modifies already implies that the meaning of the proper noun has been changed and thus we can safely deduct that there is a massive difference between Germany and Nazi Germany.


Not all of the population knew about the war crimes, do you think that Hitler would just openly shout out what exactly the regime did? What you are saying is simply bullcrap. Think about it, by the time Germany had their death camps (There is a difference between camps) up and running, total war broke out and the allied air forces deliberately targeted civilians with their bombs e.g. Dresden Firebombing. But no, that is fine because 'the allies are the good guys' right? I am not justifying any war crimes from either side and neither am I supporting either side. The allied nations could care less about the Jews, during the 30s anti-Semitism was a common trend across the globe. A few hundred escapees returned from the direction of the war front to tell stories about how they were tortured to the people living in the Third Reich?...Think about that for a moment, just think about it. In addition to that, a lot of Wehrmacht soldiers did not consider themselves as Nazis. Neither did men from the Air force or Navy for that matter. Like I said, only less than 60,000 Nazi personal actually actively took part in the Holocaust, they are responsible for it, not other people.

cosham 
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I do believe that you will find the Germans started the , deplorable granted by anyone indiscriminate bombing of civilians. One has to admit that you equate, the allied bombing campaign over Germany, with the deliberate attempt at wiping several ethnic groups in Europe. Candour compels me to admit you are correct in stating that the Holocaust was not common knowledge in wartime Germany. Alas to further state a mere 60,000 were involved thus were the only people in the loop as it were. Is somewhat in error.
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Posted 2/20/14

cosham wrote:

I do believe that you will find the Germans started the , deplorable granted by anyone indiscriminate bombing of civilians. One has to admit that you equate, the allied bombing campaign over Germany, with the deliberate attempt at wiping several ethnic groups in Europe. Candour compels me to admit you are correct in stating that the Holocaust was not common knowledge in wartime Germany. Alas to further state a mere 60,000 were involved thus were the only people in the loop as it were. Is somewhat in error.


The 'Germans' did not start it, Adolf Hitler and his high command did, the Nazi German population followed it up. There is a distinct difference between people that were active supporters of it and people that were not. There is also no real way to say whether one was a Nazi or not. many people had to give in to the Nazi regime to survive, whether this is morally correct or not depends on yourself. I am not simply equating the bombing campaign over Nazi Germany, I am equating the deliberate mass murder of civilian lives by the Allied Air forces to the deliberate murder of civilian lives (Even when certain ethnic groups were targeted). There is no difference, one side actively sought to destroy the other's population whilst the other actively sought to eradicate certain people. Both resulted in the tremendous and tragic loss of lives and what everyone seems to be forgetting is that there was no real good or bad guy in WW2, everyone by modern definition was a bad guy. One was simply less evil than the other. That is why I don't say any side was better in killing civilians than the other.
I specifically said 60,000 were 'actively' involved. Yes, that is right, sources vary but the average says 50-60k. We are talking about actively taking part therefore people such as Death camp train conductors or death camp wardens etc.... Of course the number of people that were actual Nazis can't be as simple as saying 'Oh everyone that had a Nazi flag in their house was one' or things such as that since some were forced to do so and others did it to hide or blend in (Which, again, I am not saying is correct).
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Posted 2/20/14
Don't you love how Neo-nazis love to deflect blame? Oh look the Allies did bad things to so that makes up for any bad thing the germans did. Hogwash. You think the german people were such victims? Who do you think built the tanks the planes the stuff the Nazi's needed to wage war? Magcal elves? No the german people did and they knew what was happening to the jews how could they not know after Kristallnach were they so fucking blind they could not see the synagogues burning and people being dragged from their home? Are the german people to blame for everything that happen no they are not but to say they are fully blameless is just dumb
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Posted 2/21/14 , edited 2/21/14

uncletim wrote:

Don't you love how Neo-nazis love to deflect blame? Oh look the Allies did bad things to so that makes up for any bad thing the germans did. Hogwash. You think the german people were such victims? Who do you think built the tanks the planes the stuff the Nazi's needed to wage war? Magcal elves? No the german people did and they knew what was happening to the jews how could they not know after Kristallnach were they so fucking blind they could not see the synagogues burning and people being dragged from their home? Are the german people to blame for everything that happen no they are not but to say they are fully blameless is just dumb


No one ever tried to imply that the entire German population was innocent, however you are claiming that all were accountable for what a minority did. You are being so anti-German it is quite depressing, I thought people were more intelligent than they were 70 years ago, clearly you are not. Trying to call me a Neo Nazi is stupid as well, just take a look at my username.
OF COURSE THE GERMAN POPULATION BUILT THE EQUIPMENT THE ARMY USES, SO DO WE AND SO DID THE SOVIET POPULATION, ARE THEY ACCOUNTABLE FOR WHAT THE ARMY DID WITH THEM? NO. It's sickening to see such flawed logic, you are pretty much blaming yourself for everything governments do. Think about it for a second, we all know what war crimes our nations committed post-WW2 and currently in other places on earth with the weapons we built for them yet we don't care. You have a double standard, double standards are stupid. Stop looking to blame others when you yourself are not any better.
Stop playing this little game of 'Mother! I am an idiot let me go cry and point the stinky finger at other people because I have nothing better to do than be a fail troll or absolutely ridiculous.'
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Posted 2/21/14

aGreekSudaneseGerman wrote:


uncletim wrote:

Don't you love how Neo-nazis love to deflect blame? Oh look the Allies did bad things to so that makes up for any bad thing the germans did. Hogwash. You think the german people were such victims? Who do you think built the tanks the planes the stuff the Nazi's needed to wage war? Magcal elves? No the german people did and they knew what was happening to the jews how could they not know after Kristallnach were they so fucking blind they could not see the synagogues burning and people being dragged from their home? Are the german people to blame for everything that happen no they are not but to say they are fully blameless is just dumb


No one ever tried to imply that the entire German population was innocent, however you are claiming that all were accountable for what a minority did. You are being so anti-German it is quite depressing, I thought people were more intelligent than they were 70 years ago, clearly you are not. Trying to call me a Neo Nazi is stupid as well, just take a look at my username.
OF COURSE THE GERMAN POPULATION BUILT THE EQUIPMENT THE ARMY USES, SO DO WE AND SO DID THE SOVIET POPULATION, ARE THEY ACCOUNTABLE FOR WHAT THE ARMY DID WITH THEM? NO. It's sickening to see such flawed logic, you are pretty much blaming yourself for everything governments do. Think about it for a second, we all know what war crimes our nations committed post-WW2 and currently in other places on earth with the weapons we built for them yet we don't care. You have a double standard, double standards are stupid. Stop looking to blame others when you yourself are not any better.
Stop playing this little game of 'Mother! I am an idiot let me go cry and point the stinky finger at other people because I have nothing better to do than be a fail troll or absolutely ridiculous.'


so your saying the german people didn't support the government and every single one but a few were freaking blind to the what was going on around them is even more insulting. Report said you could smell the death in the concentration camps for miles did none of the people around not have noses?? If just a quarter of the german people had stood up and said NO THIS IS NOT RIGHT it would have ended right there but they didn't they went sheepishly along with what their government did so they are just as fucking guilty Call me aint-german all you want I am just sick of pantie waist librals like you crying on how the poor germans suffered

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Posted 2/21/14
Perhaps not entirely relevant, but my paternal grandfather was in the Raf, during the second world war. So I do tend to get miffed if the RAF
are compared to the SS .
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Posted 2/21/14 , edited 2/21/14

cosham wrote:

Perhaps not entirely relevant, but my paternal grandfather was in the Raf, during the second world war. So I do tend to get miffed if the RAF
are compared to the SS .


shh dude if you speak ill of the germen people during WW2 your a racist don't you know they were just victims picked on by the mean ol allies

back on topic this guy nails the subject

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jrxxZunGwtM&list=PL84A91744A72011F6&index=92

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