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Censorship on Manga, your opinion?
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39 / M / Surrey, UK
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Posted 1/22/14
Personally, I tend to dislike all censorship. Sort of on principle, but not entirely. Mainly as I like to see something as close to the original intent as possible. Translating out of native language is one thing, altering artwork 'cos of cultural sensibilities is something different entirely. After all, I'm trying to read (or watch...) a story based in Japanese culture.

It's not even as if what's being censored is things I necessarily like. But I really don't like an imperfect version of something.
Plus some of the best manga I've read recently would not have been as good (or as powerful) if it'd been censored. Some of it was powerful simply because the visuals were uncomfortable.
It helped convey a sense of "something isn't right here" that wouldn't have been anywhere near as tangible if things were sanitised to more socially acceptable levels. The the sense of wrongness conveyed that the characters were all quite broken. Which, in turn, made their character growth and self-improvement all the more meaningful.
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27 / M / Mor Dhona
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Posted 1/22/14

KamisamanoOtaku wrote:

Are there really people who want "censoring for censoring's sake", Genbu89?

...

TL;DR: That got somewhat lengthy, so let me state that I am mostly in agreement with Genbu89; I just challenging his characterization of censorship for the sake of censorship and sought to be clear about where "bad" censorship comes from.


Well, I apologize, but I wrote that late last night. Was kind of tired.

Anyway, I digress. There aren't people who censor works just to do so, but there are people who go overboard with the censorship - the Jack Thompsons of the world - and insist if it's available to the public it should be free of violence, blood, and sexuality. Or something like that.

Personally, I think if parents were a little more attentive and caring as to what their children purchase / read / play / whatever, it would be a nonissue, but...

Anyway, still hold fast to the belief that blanket judgments like "all censorship is bad" aren't very well thought out. Case-by-case basis.

In regards to the digital censoring of I"s, if it has a mature tag and is shrink wrapped in print form, OK, yeah, censorship of it is BS; that said, it might be unlawful to distribute it uncensored in the US (legal definition of child pornography and all that). Regardless, does censoring an image of an underage (in the US) girl with her breasts bared really detract that much from the story?
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27 / M
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Posted 1/22/14
I think if it passes the editor's table then it should be able to be viewed by all, not altered to fit our sensibilities. All or nothing in my opinion.
Posted 1/22/14 , edited 1/22/14
I feel that if it is a rated "M" manga, it should not be censored. I mean, it is already rated "M" for mature...It is understood that it is catered to, and directed to a mature audience. So why censor? It is a different culture, with different ways of showing and depicting things. If it was such a problem, then it should not have been licensed in the first place.

Problem is, this happens all over the world. This "tweaking" and removal of certain things. Sometimes it is just little things (like removing an exposed nipple) or sometimes it is much more serious.

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35 / M / Canada
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Posted 1/22/14
I am guessing it is your location? I have Viz books and I cannot think of any that have been sensored. At least not that I noticed. Hrm. Might need to check my collection to see. Here in Canada, things rarely get censored.

So... from viz... this is what I got that is on their website that I think had nudity. Don't feel like going through all my books to check.

Biomega
Ikigami

I dunno the big deal on censorship is. Here, they just have age notification and say cannot sell to under certain age if it is a certain rating :s

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39 / M / Surrey, UK
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Posted 1/22/14

Genbu89 wrote:OK, yeah, censorship of it is BS; that said, it might be unlawful to distribute it uncensored in the US (legal definition of child pornography and all that). Regardless, does censoring an image of an underage (in the US) girl with her breasts bared really detract that much from the story?


It depends on the context. It can make the image seem less awkward and uncomfortable. However, some scenes may require that awkwardness to work. Some may work as well (or better, maybe) with details hidden. But it is all down to context and can vary form story to story.

If, for example, there is a scene of some skeezy old guy trying to cop a feel with a clearly underage girl, it is not a pleasant scene. But the detail can add to the (correct) sense of wrongness and really make you want the scumbag to get his comeuppance.
My sense of justice doesn't flare up quite so much when someone tries to feel up a featureless barbie doll.

It can also come down to whether the lack (or sometimes appearance) of nipples looks out of place or not. I've seen examples the other way around, especially in anime, where the uncensored version has nipples that look superimposed and actually look worse than censor steam.
Detail, or its lack, can be done artfully or it can be done blatantly. And I'm more likely to accept censorship (or, conversely, nudity) if it doesn't feel forced and out of place.

The other thing I find, sometimes, is that censorship effects can actually draw more attention than leaving things visible.
I don't, for example, have much of an interest in viewing up the skirts of overly young characters. But when a scene is editied to have an impossibly dark and long stretch of shadow... it actually makes me more aware that it is an upskirt view. Without the censorship, I may have given it no more thought than "Well, that's not a very ladylike position" and then promptly mentally filtered out the fact that her underwear was on display. "Unfeasible Patch Of Darkness" is harder to filter out.

"All censorship is bad" may be simplistic, but so is "all censorship is good". But, as a general rule, I prefer to see things as the artist (or whoever) intended, so i can make my own mind up as to whether it was appropriate or not.
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32 / M / California, USA
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Posted 1/22/14
I think if it's rated to the appropriate age limit etc why censor it??.... I
oz100 
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Posted 1/22/14
About the age of consent in the US; it actually varies by state. Some states are 16, some are 17 and some are 18.

The reason most people think the age of consent for all states is 18 is because of the media. Most of the media comes from California and the age of consent there is 18.

http://www.ageofconsent.us/
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27 / M / Mor Dhona
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Posted 1/22/14

TiggsPanther wrote:


Genbu89 wrote:OK, yeah, censorship of it is BS; that said, it might be unlawful to distribute it uncensored in the US (legal definition of child pornography and all that). Regardless, does censoring an image of an underage (in the US) girl with her breasts bared really detract that much from the story?


It depends on the context. It can make the image seem less awkward and uncomfortable. However, some scenes may require that awkwardness to work. Some may work as well (or better, maybe) with details hidden. But it is all down to context and can vary form story to story.

If, for example, there is a scene of some skeezy old guy trying to cop a feel with a clearly underage girl, it is not a pleasant scene. But the detail can add to the (correct) sense of wrongness and really make you want the scumbag to get his comeuppance.
My sense of justice doesn't flare up quite so much when someone tries to feel up a featureless barbie doll.

It can also come down to whether the lack (or sometimes appearance) of nipples looks out of place or not. I've seen examples the other way around, especially in anime, where the uncensored version has nipples that look superimposed and actually look worse than censor steam.
Detail, or its lack, can be done artfully or it can be done blatantly. And I'm more likely to accept censorship (or, conversely, nudity) if it doesn't feel forced and out of place.

The other thing I find, sometimes, is that censorship effects can actually draw more attention than leaving things visible.
I don't, for example, have much of an interest in viewing up the skirts of overly young characters. But when a scene is editied to have an impossibly dark and long stretch of shadow... it actually makes me more aware that it is an upskirt view. Without the censorship, I may have given it no more thought than "Well, that's not a very ladylike position" and then promptly mentally filtered out the fact that her underwear was on display. "Unfeasible Patch Of Darkness" is harder to filter out.

"All censorship is bad" may be simplistic, but so is "all censorship is good". But, as a general rule, I prefer to see things as the artist (or whoever) intended, so i can make my own mind up as to whether it was appropriate or not.


Again, case-by-case basis. I never said all censorship was good. Americans in general are very touchy on a lot of subjects (especially religion and sexuality), and I doubt the publishing companies can afford to deal with a controversy because some idiot got offended by a trite detail. There's also the problem of whether or not it's lawful to distribute the work as the artist (or whoever) intended in a given region (see below).


oz100 wrote:

About the age of consent in the US; it actually varies by state. Some states are 16, some are 17 and some are 18.

The reason most people think the age of consent for all states is 18 is because of the media. Most of the media comes from California and the age of consent there is 18.

http://www.ageofconsent.us/


While it's certainly true the age of consent is different depending on the state (and 18 is the socially accepted standard due to most media coming from Cali), if a work is going to be sold, it has to conform to the law everywhere it's going to be sold. Given that 18 is the oldest age of consent in the US, if the censoring in question deals with underage nudity... you see where this is going. Even then, if there's a federal definition of child pornography and it includes printed work (and I'm assuming both counts are true), it's still unlawful to distribute it uncensored in any state regardless of each state's individual laws. Now, just how far reaching is the internet?

Granted, they could always publish a censored and uncensored version, but it probably wouldn't be profitable to do so. So uhh...
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23 / F / Northampton, Mass...
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Posted 1/22/14
But underage nudity is not the same as child pornography. From the info linked by oz100 on the previous page:

Prohibits drawings, sculptures, and pictures of such drawings and sculptures depicting minors in actions or situations that meet the Miller test of being obscene, OR are engaged in sex acts that are deemed to meet the same obscene condition. The law does not explicitly state that images of fictional beings who appear to be under 18 engaged in sexual acts that are not deemed to be obscene are rendered illegal in and of their own condition (illustration of sex of fictional minors).

Later in the article, it says that parts of this Act defining virtual child pornography were struck down. Browsing Wikipedia some more, I found this page which has more info relevant to issues of child pornography in anime and manga.
The conclusion I drew from the article is that there is no way that I''s would become illegal just from having uncensored nipples, so the censorship probably occurred for a different reason.
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27 / M / Mor Dhona
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Posted 1/22/14

fuzzytipsy wrote:

But underage nudity is not the same as child pornography. From the info linked by oz100 on the previous page:

Prohibits drawings, sculptures, and pictures of such drawings and sculptures depicting minors in actions or situations that meet the Miller test of being obscene, OR are engaged in sex acts that are deemed to meet the same obscene condition. The law does not explicitly state that images of fictional beings who appear to be under 18 engaged in sexual acts that are not deemed to be obscene are rendered illegal in and of their own condition (illustration of sex of fictional minors).

Later in the article, it says that parts of this Act defining virtual child pornography were struck down. Browsing Wikipedia some more, I found this page which has more info relevant to issues of child pornography in anime and manga.
The conclusion I drew from the article is that there is no way that I''s would become illegal just from having uncensored nipples, so the censorship probably occurred for a different reason.


Thanks for doing the legwork for me, hahaha!

... anyway, while it may be lawful to show minors with their naughty bits exposed as long as it isn't sexually obscene, the moral guardians would have a field day with it. Basically, the US as a culture is rather prudish when it comes to nudity in general (let alone underage nudity), so in the interest of avoiding controversy they'll make a couple edits here and there.

I"s is a romance if I remember right anyway. (Actually, browsing TVTropes I see it's a romance/drama.) It really depends on the context, I suppose.
Posted 1/22/14
I"s was a good manga and I do believe some manga should be censored,well at least free digital versions, but if you personally buy it digitally from a legit source like Viz Manga then i think there should be a version that's censored and uncensored and unless your 18 the uncensored version can't be bought.
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47 / M
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Posted 1/22/14
If it censored in the orignal work it should be censored here. Else its the localization issue and we know how funimation and other companies are with that. hehe
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43 / M / Canada
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Posted 1/22/14
I dislike it, but I understand the reasons for it and I'm ok with it as long as it isn't too badly done

and, more importantly, the company in question admits it.

There was a label called CMX Manga that used "Manga the way it was meant to be read" as a tag line bold as brass on their covers and then proceeded to censor and edit several of their books.
I didn't mind the censoring and I kind of understand the reasons for it. What annoyed me was the flat out lie they had on the cover of their books, so I never bought another title from them.

and from what I heard I wasn't the only one.
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27 / M / Jamaica
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Posted 1/23/14
I dislike censorship, because the original intent of the creator is lost. I want to see manga or any other media free of censorship, if the content is too extreme for some people then don't partake in that media. If you are trying to protect children then parents should be more vigilant and stop leaving everything to the FCC.
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