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Post Reply Sword Art Online or Log Horizon?
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Posted 1/25/14 , edited 1/25/14
SAO has a lot of action and a cute love story I'm actually rather fond of.
LH has a much more cultivated world and pretty engaging politics.

There's not much overlap; if we're just going to pick favorites I'll need to wait for LH to end first.
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Posted 1/25/14
Hands down Log Horizon it's a much better story and feels more like a real MMORPG and not like a crapy dateing sim that SAO turned out to be
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Posted 1/25/14

Koda89 wrote:


Ron1083 wrote:

While i like them both... SAO no question.

1. Shit was real!
Made you scared to think what would happen being stuck in there n possibly die!

2. Characters i actually care about.
in LH no one has drawn me to care if they die or not, not even MC.

3. Goal/Love story.
SAO had a goal, (beat the game n survive/ Rescue your loved one)
LH: politics and use strategy (mainly teaching it thru a lower level char)

4. Emotion.
everyone running around in LH like nothing big has happened... YOU'RE STUCK IN A GAME!
no ones freaking out about it... REALLY!
SAO was an emotional roller coaster: death/ sex/ monsters/ marriages/ children... etc.

i do agree with people saying the fairy arc was sub-par because it was, but i have high hopes for the next season/ arc.

That's my 2 pennies


See I am 8 episodes into SAO right now(so I am more than halfway through the consensus best part of the show) and I just don't really see any of those. Aside from the first one. But it is also real in LH. Sure death isn't permanent like SAO, but it has....other consequences. For #2 I definitely don't agree with SAO having that. I just don't care for the characters that much. Why? Because they have been barely built by this point. And nearly everyone not named Kirito, Asuna, and Klein have died the episode they debuted. Characters actually have shorter life spans in SAO than Attack on Titan(which honestly surprised me)! Which makes it hard to care about these side characters cause I know most will die before the episode ends.

#3 isn't exactly true with LH. They do have a goal, pretty much the same goal as SAO, escape their situation. Unlike SAO, though, they aren't told literally every important facet of their plight so they don't even know what to do to accomplish this goal. So while they try and find how to escape, they have to still live some form of a life.

#4, again you are kind of selling LH short. People were freaking out in LH at first. Until they started building a society, that is, but still they did freak out. And again I am just not that invested in the characters in SAO yet for that to be true with me.

Now can my opinion change on SAO? Sure, it totally can. Just right now I am in the thick of the best part and I just am not seeing it. Don't get me wrong, it is still a good series, just not as good as it was hyped to be.


Haha! The second half will destroy any hopes you had for SAO.
Posted 1/25/14 , edited 1/25/14
Log Horizon is heaps better in the sense that it actually focuses heavily on the mechanics of an MMORPG. But in terms of plot complexity and characterization, it's sort of similar to SAO.
However, in Log Horizon, the character called Lenessia is pretty redeeming.


Join my group if you want to discuss about characters in Log Horizon: http://www.crunchyroll.com/group/Log_Horizon_Characters

(Don't know if we're allowed to shamelessly promote personal groups on here.... so forgive me if this is against the rules )
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Posted 1/25/14
It's only tangentially related but I'm wondering, is there anything more universally hated in the general community than the second half of SAO?
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Posted 1/25/14
In response to the OP, Log Horizon for sure. I could care less about the whole romance thing throughout SAO, but the first half had a pretty good consistent plot. Won't speak for the second half because there's not much to talk about for that horrible arc. For Log Horizon though, it's basically abandoned any hope for romance (with a slight possibility between Crusty and Lenessia) and has stuck true to what its purpose is. Trapped in an MMORPG (which we don't even know how they were warped there to begin with, whether it be similar to SAO's virtual helmet style or have their entire being inside the game w/ no traces of them in the real world) trying to figure out how to live together for the time being until they figure out how to escape with some good politics involved as well. I also enjoy how, unlike SAO, they don't try to explain everything right off the bat (w/ exception to their skill abilities of course). That's what Keeps Log Horizon more mysterious and has you wanting to find out what happens next. I think if SAO ended after the first arc or kept the original plot and kept going, it would've turned out a LOT better.
Koda89 
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Posted 1/25/14

windsagio wrote:

It's only tangentially related but I'm wondering, is there anything more universally hated in the general community than the second half of SAO?


The OVAs for Oreimo 2? For many people they literally ruined the entire show for them. I despise the hell out of them too, but not enough to hate the entire show.
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Posted 1/25/14
Accel World, why didn't I post in this thread sooner?

I've been rewatching Accel World, which I feel is a superior animation, with stronger story, characters, and narrative focus.

Being animated by A-1 Studio's, they've got stronger action, better general animation, and a great deal of color in their scenes. The story and characters are also well served. With the short, fat, and timid pig-themed hero Haru serving as one of the best leads in recent history. Haru has more character growth in his opening episode than Kirito and Shiroe hold in their entire series...not that they had much room to grow in the first place! Taking a pathetic character and improving upon that hold far more meaning to me. It's also set in the same universe of SAO, and was indeed written by the same person.


Focusing on the shows themselves -

SAO was animated by Production I.G. and holds a far higher budget and far more experienced team than Satelights Log Horizon. The original work also leads a far stronger narative with one of the best opening episode in Anime Period, I'll have to heavily review AoT and SAO's opening episodes to even properly compare the two they're both so great. SAO was based upon an LN book taking place through a handful of episodes. This was later suplemented through additional material to cover moments the original LN skipped over, leading to extremely awkward filler episodes. Episode 3 was essentially "Chibi-Berserk" in how it goes through 12 episodes of content in the span of 20 Minutes. Upon finally returning to the main SAO source the show takes hold of the viewers....before reaching it's proper second half and losing the collective fanbase of the masses to a trainwreck of bad storytelling. While I have a lot of things I can defend SAO for, the show ends up alot like the previous years Guilty Crown as being too much Michael Bay and not enough Joss Whedon.

Log Horizon was based upon a LN release a year later, and most likely influenced in some way by SAO. The anime is easily a band-wagon jump by another studio, hoping to cash in on the SAO appeal BUT FOR KIDS. The show is released on a channel and at a time as for the primary audience to be of a slightly younger crowd than SAO's.
Log Horizons source material however, is slightly more adult. Being written by Mayou creator what's-his-name. The focus is aimed around the community of players stuck in an MMO, rather than SAO's player focus. It's about the community and the politics and economics behind it, as well as a group of adventurers learning about the game. Unlike SAO which assumes you know basic MMO knowledge, Log Horizon gives detailed exposition dumps. Log Horizon has it's own appeal, and it's main draw isn't wasted with horrible horrible story telling, altho it's characters arn't too much better. Unlike SAO, in which Filler was the bane of it's viewerbase, Log Horizon has plenty of room to shove it in..not that it can with all the Exposition and Story already progressing.

I feel Log Horizon has far more lasting appeal, and could go on for several more seasons if allowed.

But as far as single seasons stand, SAO is the better Anime. We'll have to wait for Log Horizons ending for it to change, but I don't see that incoming. If Log Horizon makes it to say, 50 episodes, it can easily surpass SAO....but we might not be so lucky to receive such.
xxJing 
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Posted 1/25/14 , edited 1/25/14
.hack//sign .hack//liminality .hack//dusk .hack//roots .hack//quantum ... maybe not the .hack cg movie though, that kind of sucked if you ask me, was a bit too hollywoodish feeling.
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Posted 1/25/14 , edited 1/25/14

Ron1083 wrote:

While i like them both... SAO no question.

1. Shit was real!
Made you scared to think what would happen being stuck in there n possibly die!

2. Characters i actually care about.
in LH no one has drawn me to care if they die or not, not even MC.

3. Goal/Love story.
SAO had a goal, (beat the game n survive/ Rescue your loved one)
LH: politics and use strategy (mainly teaching it thru a lower level char)

4. Emotion.
everyone running around in LH like nothing big has happened... YOU'RE STUCK IN A GAME!
no ones freaking out about it... REALLY!
SAO was an emotional roller coaster: death/ sex/ monsters/ marriages/ children... etc.

1. Yeah, I felt more raw emotion from the characters in SAO, both from their initial reactions and from the subtleties in the way their facial expressions/body language were animated.

2 & 4. Minori has felt the most real to me as she was enduring hardship and crying and then found hope in Shiroe's guidance to become a leader herself. I had a hard time warming up to Shiroe, but have come to respect, if not resonate with, his character as he's matured; he and Kirito actually follow similar paths of being reluctant heroes. Akatsuki, Nao, Nyanta and the others, especially the guild leaders, being so politically minded and/or nonchalant in the face of what I feel should be a depressing situation for most really baffles me. How can they all be so calm about being turned into game characters? They seem to have no qualms about living life here as if it were the real world. So much so that they form an actual society from the ground up as if they are resigned to live in this world forever with no hope or aspiration to find a way home if possible. If I were in their shoes, I'd want to go home and would be looking for clues if that is possible, who brought us to that world, and why we were brought there. No one seems to earnestly question their existence there, or even how that's possible, and instead decide playing politics is a better use of their time. Thinking about being the best or most powerful guild would be the last thing on my mind, I'd be more concerned with my state of existence and what that meant long term for my life and survival.

In SAO, I appreciated the fact that even though this new world held possibilities for taking advantage of others, most desired to work together to return home. I know, some will say that they had to get out or die there, but isn't it the same in LH? Sure their bodies respawn for now, but they did not anticipate they would lose memories or even if that fact could change over time. They took for granted dying was no big deal. What will become of the people in LH if they cannot escape... can they grow old and die or will this be a purgatory of endless life as a game character? That's even more scary than SAO where at least you could die if you chose to, so, again, why do they look this calm given the fact they've become something no longer human and may not see the real world, and their family and friends ever again. I'd be so depressed by just contemplating that fact if I were in LH that I'd make it my goal to get out one way or another no matter the cost. Where are the people who think like me that want to escape from this purgatory and why has the show not given any time to a group of people who feel this way?

3. Having a clear goal in SAO definitely helped hook me into the narrative, until the ALO stuff started then it was just kind of was meh. In LH there's no clear goal at the start, so they do what they want or act aimlessly without purpose to their actions until Shiroe gives them one by force. Even then, though, it remains a mystery how LH will end because there's no clear goal in sight besides bringing more order I guess. For some the mystery works well, but for me I'd rather have some overarching plot line to follow, like save the people from the titans in AoT.

So far, I'm definitely enjoying SAO more than LH for many of the reasons you described. By no means do I think LH is bad, but it simply does not appeal to me on the same level SAO did. That's a question of my personal preferences, though, which is different from if I think one show is objectively better than the other. I don't think either is superior because they are different stories written in differing styles and with seemingly different end goals. SAO just spoke to me more at this point in the story than LH has; I still am having fun watching LH though for different reasons than SAO.
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Posted 1/25/14

sonic720 wrote:


Ron1083 wrote:

While i like them both... SAO no question.

1. Shit was real!
Made you scared to think what would happen being stuck in there n possibly die!

2. Characters i actually care about.
in LH no one has drawn me to care if they die or not, not even MC.

3. Goal/Love story.
SAO had a goal, (beat the game n survive/ Rescue your loved one)
LH: politics and use strategy (mainly teaching it thru a lower level char)

4. Emotion.
everyone running around in LH like nothing big has happened... YOU'RE STUCK IN A GAME!
no ones freaking out about it... REALLY!
SAO was an emotional roller coaster: death/ sex/ monsters/ marriages/ children... etc.

1. Yeah, I felt more raw emotion from the characters in SAO, both from their initial reactions and from the subtleties in the way their facial expressions/body language were animated.

2 & 4. Minori has felt the most real to me as she was enduring hardship and crying and then found hope in Shiroe's guidance to become a leader herself. I had a hard time warming up to Shiroe, but have come to respect, if not resonate with, his character as he's matured; he and Kirito actually follow similar paths of being reluctant heroes. Akatsuki, Nao, Nyanta and the others, especially the guild leaders, being so politically minded and/or nonchalant in the face of what I feel should be a depressing situation for most really baffles me. How can they all be so calm about being turned into game characters? They seem to have no qualms about living life here as if it were the real world. So much so that they form an actual society from the ground up as if they are resigned to live in this world forever with no hope or aspiration to find a way home if possible. If I were in their shoes, I'd want to go home and would be looking for clues if that is possible, who brought us to that world, and why we were brought there. No one seems to earnestly question their existence there, or even how that's possible, and instead decide playing politics is a better use of their time. Thinking about being the best or most powerful guild would be the last thing on my mind, I'd be more concerned with my state of existence and what that meant long term for my life and survival.

In SAO, I appreciated the fact that even though this new world held possibilities for taking advantage of others, most desired to work together to return home. I know, some will say that they had to get out or die there, but isn't it the same in LH? Sure their bodies respawn for now, but they did not anticipate they would lose memories or even if that fact could change over time. They took for granted dying was no big deal. What will become of the people in LH if they cannot escape... can they grow old and die or will this be a purgatory of endless life as a game character? That's even more scary than SAO where at least you could die if you chose to, so, again, why do they look this calm given the fact they've become something no longer human and may not see the real world, and their family and friends ever again. I'd be so depressed by just contemplating that fact if I were in LH that I'd make it my goal to get out one way or another no matter the cost. Where are the people who think like me that want to escape from this purgatory and why has the show not given any time to a group of people who feel this way?

3. Having a clear goal in SAO definitely helped hook me into the narrative, until the ALO stuff started then it was just kind of was meh. In LH there's no clear goal at the start, so they do what they want or act aimlessly without purpose to their actions until Shiroe gives them one by force. Even then, though, it remains a mystery how LH will end because there's no clear goal in sight besides bringing more order I guess. For some the mystery works well, but for me I'd rather have some overarching plot line to follow, like save the people from the titans in AoT.

So far, I'm definitely enjoying SAO more than LH for many of the reasons you described. By no means do I think LH is bad, but it simply does not appeal to me on the same level SAO did. That's a question of my personal preferences, though, which is different from if I think one show is objectively better than the other. I don't think either is superior because they are different stories written in differing styles and with seemingly different end goals. SAO just spoke to me more at this point in the story than LH has; I still am having fun watching LH though for different reasons than SAO.


Agreed
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Posted 1/25/14

windsagio wrote:


Evilshadowx wrote:

I've watched tons of anime and play tons of MMO's through my life. I would just take both and stop arguing.


There's not really any arguing is the strange bit. Mysteriously civil, if anything.


I ment in general. Not so much this thread, but there are many other threads that aren't civil.
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Posted 1/25/14

Evilshadowx wrote:


windsagio wrote:


Evilshadowx wrote:

I've watched tons of anime and play tons of MMO's through my life. I would just take both and stop arguing.


There's not really any arguing is the strange bit. Mysteriously civil, if anything.


I ment in general. Not so much this thread, but there are many other threads that aren't civil.


That's because they treat anime as their life ^.^ (AKA the unsociable rejects)
xxJing 
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As a non trolling answer now : Log Horizon.

SAO may have characters you care more about, it may have more romance, it may even have more action, but there is one thing it does not have that both Log Horizon and .hack did : suspense. Suspense is the most important thing you can have in any type of story.

I was not surprised by ANYTHING in SAO. Nothing in it made me feel at the edge of my seat or worried, it was such a predictable show. The one thing that probably got any emotion out of me was funnily enough Sugou. It's rare for me to hate a villain as much as I have hated Sugou, I think the last time I hated a villain so much was in Basilisk, now the villain of that show was a real douchebag. Other than that nothing really phased me, Asuna and Kirito were beyond generic, Klein and Agil were like 100% anime wingman characters, silica was template loli, leafa was template imouto, the one girl that did keep me interested was Lizbeth, but she got like 1.2 episodes of screen time.

I'd say that SAO is the corniest anime I have ever seen, but that award has to go to Strike the Blood... the level of corn in StB so outdoes anything SAO could even hope to have.

Log Horizon has me loosely invested in the characters themselves, doesn't have much action, but it does have me interested in the world and the political affairs. I have no idea where the show wants to go, and I really want to find out what is going on. LH has suspense and mystery, it lays down questions and leaves the audience wanting answers.

If I were to present this as a metaphor, I would say that SAO is a wonderfully decorated cake, but the cake itself isn't baked very well. LH on the other hand is a decently baked cake, but it's decoration and toppings are lacking. However it is important to get the basis right.


Now for something a little offensive. There is a derogatory label that some japanese people use for certain animes : moebuta - literally moe pig. Essentially this refers to animes like Infinite Stratos that have a weak plot, but strong fan service elements. The term was derived from the fact that pigs will eat pretty much anything you feed them, so you do not need to feed them anything special, just keep giving them the same old slop you know that they will eat. This doesn't just have to refer to visuals, it can also refer to plot elements. Anime fans are really weak to romantic plots, and as I have noticed the faster the romance comes, the more the fans squeal (like pigs). I feel a lot of people really like SAO only because of how the romance is handled in it. It is handled like that slop fed to pigs, it is given to you up front, constantly, and with little resistance.
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Posted 1/25/14

xxJing wrote:

As a non trolling answer now : Log Horizon.

SAO may have characters you care more about, it may have more romance, it may even have more action, but there is one thing it does not have that both Log Horizon and .hack did : suspense. Suspense is the most important thing you can have in any type of story.

I was not surprised by ANYTHING in SAO. Nothing in it made me feel at the edge of my seat or worried, it was such a predictable show. The one thing that probably got any emotion out of me was funnily enough Sugou. It's rare for me to hate a villain as much as I have hated Sugou, I think the last time I hated a villain so much was in Basilisk, now the villain of that show was a real douchebag. Other than that nothing really phased me, Asuna and Kirito were beyond generic, Klein and Agil were like 100% anime wingman characters, silica was template loli, leafa was template imouto, the one girl that did keep me interested was Lizbeth, but she got like 1.2 episodes of screen time.

I'd say that SAO is the corniest anime I have ever seen, but that award has to go to Strike the Blood... the level of corn in StB so outdoes anything SAO could even hope to have.

Log Horizon has me loosely invested in the characters themselves, doesn't have much action, but it does have me interested in the world and the political affairs. I have no idea where the show wants to go, and I really want to find out what is going on. LH has suspense and mystery, it lays down questions and leaves the audience wanting answers.

If I were to present this as a metaphor, I would say that SAO is a wonderfully decorated cake, but the cake itself isn't baked very well. LH on the other hand is a decently baked cake, but it's decoration and toppings are lacking. However it is important to get the basis right.


Now for something a little offensive. There is a derogatory label that some japanese people use for certain animes : moebuta - literally moe pig. Essentially this refers to animes like Infinite Stratos that have a weak plot, but strong fan service elements. The term was derived from the fact that pigs will eat pretty much anything you feed them, so you do not need to feed them anything special, just keep giving them the same old slop you know that they will eat. This doesn't just have to refer to visuals, it can also refer to plot elements. Anime fans are really weak to romantic plots, and as I have noticed the faster the romance comes, the more the fans squeal (like pigs). I feel a lot of people really like SAO only because of how the romance is handled in it. It is handled like that slop fed to pigs, it is given to you up front, constantly, and with little resistance.


Couldn't have said it better myself. And that bit w/ Strike the Blood....so damn true.
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