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Can Americans create anime?
xxJing 
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Posted 2/13/14

HauAreWe wrote:


twintiger12 wrote:

Hypothetically, if some animation studios inthe U.S were contracted to do an animation for Japanese audience, and the VAs were all Japanese, was it an anime?


Reminds me of the "Made in USA" argument I heard someone making one day..
If the idea for a product was planned in the US, but was formed and created in China, yet the end-product was assembled and finished in the US, is it "Made in the USA?"


What decides the country of origin, for me anyway, is who conceived and planned the blue print for it, not who worked to produce the final product based on that blue print. Anyone with enough training can draw thousands of slightly different pictures. The person who decides what those pictures are going to be about is the person responsible for country of origin.

Although there are exceptions. For example, Heroman. Heroman was written by Stan Lee, but everything else was done by Japanese people. I consider that an anime though. Deltora Quest is another example, the original work was an Australian children's book series. I guess with anime it is more about the audience it is designed for than who designs it.
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Posted 2/13/14

HauAreWe wrote:


Anime was inspired from Walt Disney cartoons


This is off-topic, but a pretty good example of that is
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Ne-0e6P4jo

I know some really good Chinese, Korean, and French examples of this too, but I'd rather not overcrowd things =/


Question. Do you want american animation to be more Japanese style?
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Posted 2/13/14 , edited 2/13/14

Leechan69 wrote:

Question. Do you want american animation to be more Japanese style?


Absolutely not.
Japan's take on limited animation is far too taxing and too much effort is lost in the progress.

If something like Toon Boom can do just as good of a job of re-animating minor things such as 2D movement (by using an anchor) and using 3D skeletal structures, there isn't much of a need to go back to archaic methods of limited animation and efforts/funding can be outsourced to create more interesting visual effects and styles.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2LzofHulP4

The usual Japanese style its-self is inefficient and limits creative development on a wider scope in my personal opinion.

Lately, it seems like most anime are making use of 3D programs such as 3D studio Max for everything outside the character and Production I.G. has been making some interesting technological developments lately, so progress is being made.
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Posted 2/13/14

HauAreWe wrote:


Leechan69 wrote:

Question. Do you want american animation to be more Japanese style?


Absolutely not.
Japan's take on limited animation is far too taxing and too much effort is lost in the progress.

If something like Toon Boom can do just as good of a job of re-animating minor things such as 2D movement (by using an anchor) and using 3D skeletal structures, there isn't much of a need to go back to archaic methods of limited animation and efforts/funding can be outsourced to more interesting visual effects.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2LzofHulP4

The usual Japanese style its-self is inefficient and limits creative development on a wider scope in my personal opinion.

Lately, it seems like most anime are making use of 3D programs such as 3D studio Max for everything outside the character and Production I.G. has been making some interesting technological developments lately, so progress is being made, I suppose.


Good points. So I want to get into animation, so what online school do you go to anyway?
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Posted 2/13/14

Leechan69 wrote:

Good points. So I want to get into animation, so what online school do you go to anyway?


I went to a physical university for a year.. about 5 years ago.

I wish I could help you out, but I'm not that versed in on-line schooling.
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Posted 2/13/14

HauAreWe wrote:


Leechan69 wrote:

Good points. So I want to get into animation, so what online school do you go to anyway?


I went to a physical university for a year.. about 5 years ago.

I wish I could help you out, but I'm not that versed in on-line schooling.


Oh okay, thanks anyway.
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Posted 2/13/14
Explain Boondocks to me?

If you don't know it then Google it please.
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Posted 2/13/14 , edited 2/13/14

qualeshia3 wrote:

Explain Boondocks to me?


Western group makes the storyboard, animation outsourced to Korean studios.
Avatar/Legend of Korra was made the same way.
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Posted 2/13/14 , edited 1/16/16

HauAreWe wrote:
The usual Japanese style its-self is inefficient and limits creative development on a wider scope in my personal opinion.

I both agree and disagree.

In some cases, limits in what is possible can lead to greater creativity. Take, for example, the poetic form of the sonnet. There were, initially, stringent restrictions on what you could do within the form and still call it a sonnet. This lead to some of the greatest poetry in the English language in the English language because poets had to become MORE creative in order to match their message to the form.

On the other hand, it is often in breaking out of limits that leads to new bursts of creativity. For example, when Walt Whitman pioneered free verse in Leaves of Grass, it was a product of immense creative energy.

However, since free verse has become the most prevalent form of poetry in the English language, I would say that there is relatively less "great" poetry. Sure, there is creative and ground-breaking stuff, but (and this is my opinion now) very few of these poems approach the level of technical and creative genius to which the formal poems of the past bore witness. Whitman's book was more of a paradigm shift, while what is happening today is still merely experimentation within that paradigm.

Too much freedom can lead to a vacuum. The human mind isn't equipped to deal with a life without limits. It's coded into nature: gravity, centrifugal force, etc, etc (I don't know enough scientific concepts to further elaborate, but the point should be clear). Humans need limits within which they can express their creativity.

-----
I will also re-state what I said earlier: genre and medium are fluid terms. You will never be able to pin specific definitions, simply by the nature of art that pushes boundaries, morphs, incorporates and rejects elements.
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Posted 2/13/14



Have you ever watched it?
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Posted 2/13/14 , edited 2/13/14

iblessall wrote:


HauAreWe wrote:
The usual Japanese style its-self is inefficient and limits creative development on a wider scope in my personal opinion.

I both agree and disagree.

In some cases, limits in what is possible can lead to greater creativity.


Hold on. I meant the opposite. I consider the Japanese method of "limited animation"** to be inefficient, since there are plenty of shortcuts available for that very thing that are not widely adopted by Japanese animators.

Also, the style that most anime characters are in creates a sort of up-hill battle when it comes to simplifying character motions.

So, what I was saying, is that the usual anime style limits creativity by requiring an unnecessary workload for its animators whenever dynamic actions or visuals are called for.

** Limited animation is animating a specific aspect of a frame rather and re-using the rest of the character or environment.. Early Disney would not always do this and would instead re-create a character every time they moved (rather than just re-create the body parts that had stretched, squashed, or changed in angle). The visual imagery was therefore extremely dynamic and akin to a moving painting.


qualeshia3 wrote:

Have you ever watched it (Boondocks)?


Yes, a few episodes when my sister had it on. Why?
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Posted 2/13/14

HauAreWe wrote:
Hold on. I meant the opposite. I consider the Japanese method of "limited animation"** to be inefficient, since there are plenty of shortcuts available for that very thing that are not widely adopted by Japanese animators.

Also, the style that most anime characters are in creates a sort of up-hill battle when it comes to simplifying character motions.

So, what I was saying, is that the usual anime style limits creativity by requiring an unnecessary workload for its animators whenever dynamic actions or visuals are called for.

** Limited animation is animating a specific aspect of a frame rather and re-using the rest of the character or environment.. Early Disney would not always do this and would instead re-create a character every time they moved (rather than just re-create the body parts that had stretched, squashed, or changed in angle). The visual imagery was therefore extremely dynamic and akin to a moving painting.

Ah, I see. I misunderstood. Probably wasn't reading close enough.

But I got a good post out of it, so it works out, I think.
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Posted 2/13/14 , edited 2/13/14

uncletim wrote:

putting the art aside the west will never produce the grand stories that appeal to most if not all anime fans


Since you say 'Will not" instead of 'Can Not' I'll buy that. Fox can't (or won't) even meet another country's (mine) standards for a local branch/varient (but Al Jezaira can),

The only people I have a problem with are the hipsters who insist that Anime is NOT cartoons. becuase somehow Cartoon sullies their precious great art. I think such people need to get over themselves.

Anyone who is saying americans CAN'T make cartoons for similar reasons. Receives a similar judgement.


I DO have one question for those who insist only cartoons made in Japan are anime...

What if it's made in Korea. or Vietnam or China?

----

A little not so fun fact. One of the reasons there is a push for CGI at least according to one insider. This insider was campaigning hard for CGI because the in-between work was being done by political prisoners in North Korea. The insider in question didn't some poor schmuck beaten because some crappy in between work got rejected.


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Posted 2/13/14

iblessall wrote:
I got a good post out of it, so it works out, I think.


A lesson in poetry is always welcome.


papagolfwhiskey wrote:

I DO have one question for those who insist only cartoons made in Japan are anime...

What if it's made in Korea. or Vietnam or China?


We don't import a lot of Korean, Vietnamese, or Chinese cartoons. Western studios work with studios from the countries to create domestic IPs, but Korean, Vietnamese, and Chinese IPs are unusual.

"Manhwa" was adopted for Korean graphic novels. (At least I think it's called Manhwa..)
If their domestic animation studios start creating big hits in Korea and we start seeing a lot of localization, we'll probably get a term for it too.
xxJing 
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Posted 2/13/14
I love Boondocks. The thing I love about Boondocks though is it is a unique show in and of itself. It takes artistic inspiration from Samurai Champloo and Afro Samurai specifically, but it is a comedy and parody on current events and racism at the end. I'd almost be willing to say that Boondocks is the American Gintama.

Yeah Boondocks is a great example of how American Animation should be done. The art is detailed, fluid, and enjoyable. However even though the show pays homage to some animes, it doesn't try to be an anime, it tries to be a comedy show. The problem with a lot of other shows, is they try to be like anime but they aren't willing to go all the way. Sort of like Taco Bell, it's mexican food, but mexican food only to the point that it doesn't scare Americans.
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