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The sun revolves around the earth?
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Posted 2/19/14 , edited 2/19/14

crypticcrunch wrote:

So you think she actually believed God was literally powering the sun from moment to moment, and its rays are the direct beneficence of his mind, or that he powered it indirectly the way many religious people believe?

That is, she actually believed it was God's ongoing direct miraculous power, or that it was indirect as in the fire in the fireplace, or lightbulbs and automobiles are also "from God" because everything is from God?

Honestly, I'm curious, people who believe in the Sun as an actual direct manifestation of deity, very very rare. If you don't mind my asking, what religious affiliation did she have, if you know, or if any?

Although I don't think that's dogma for any church I know of today. Maybe Raleians or something... certainly it just might have been something she came up with on her own.

Are there other reasons you believe that? Did she used to talk about other stuff as "from God" or "being God" etc.?

I lied. She asked the class what the sun was made of and after I said gases she said God. But then again, I was wrong for not saying fire.

[edit]

*googles* pfft, wrong again. Turns out the sun is made out of gases. Dam I was one smart 10 year old....just getting dumber each year.
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Posted 2/19/14
You know, the Sun DOES revolve around the Earth, from our frame of reference. Relativity!

"Did you pass the car, or did it pass you going in the opposite direction?"
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Posted 2/19/14

FlyinDumpling wrote:
I lied. She asked the class what the sun was made of and after I said gases she said God. But then again, I was wrong for not saying fire.

[edit]

*googles* pfft, wrong again. Turns out the sun is made out of gases. Dam I was one smart 10 year old....just getting dumber each year.


Oh, dear.

You are going to hate me. You are correct it's not fire.

But, technically, it's charged plasma in the solar atmosphere, which is not really gas or liquid or a solid. There is even iron and other elements in it which are at an incredible temp and pressure.

Gas is a state of matter, and many of the elements the Sun is composed of would be gases at room temperature and pressure here on earth. That's true. But you can turn liquid water into a solid, or a gas, and you can do the same with those other elements.

There are other elements on the sun, including iron, although mostly it's He and H, and O. The other, heavier elements would probably be gassified at normal sea level pressure, given their current temperature. But because of their location, they are not technically in the gaseous state, they are compressed by vast gravity into another state. Also, they are carrying huge magnetic and electric charges.

This makes them a state of matter rarely found on the earth outside of microwave experiments on youtube you should not repeat for your own safety, and at nuclear research facilities. And certain TV sets.

Wikipedia Sun article goes into that, including the posited solar composition at different levels. It's pretty good.

I will just write it off that your teacher was one of the few remaining followers of Amaterasu who believe the shinto texts literally. She can't have been a believer in Genesis, the account of the creation of the Sun there is pretty clear, and it's not made "of God", just "by God".

Oh, and relativity does not mean that due to our frame of reference, the sun might as well go around the earth. That's not quite how that works... I know that wasn't you, but I thought I should tell someone.
Posted 2/19/14 , edited 2/19/14

Ouzoathena11 wrote:

...and I'm pretty sure most everyone who took it seriously gave a response about how someone could get it wrong. 1/4 of 2200 is 550. That is a decent amount of people, but when faced with many facts that other people have said (such as the comment about rural area people sometimes being looked down upon for being educated), it's not that groundbreaking of a number.

Some people are just that stupid. Even with education.

And as for patriotism... *rolls eyes* Kind of hard not to react that way when it specifically attacks Americans and practically every thing from other countries and even people within the country hate on Americans. The government is bad, that I agree with. But I have not personally met many people who I would classify as fitting into the American stereotype, which makes it hard to take.

Besides, I did find an article pointing out that it's not just Americans who get it wrong. It said that Europeans actually score worse than Americans on quizzes like that. It's in my first post. Which means it's not just the American education system, which I doubt would be the only reason to blame for it anyways, there are teachers who try to teach but kids who just don't want to learn. And I'm sure there are people who lived under a rock who somehow never heard that. Or they're just messing around like other people have suggested.

Or it could be the phrasing of the question as someone else pointed out. It took me a moment to figure out what it meant, I actually thought it meant the earth revolves around the sun, so my automatic answer was yes before I read the first post and went 'wait... I had the wrong understanding of the question.'


At no point was this attacking Americans. Also, have you ever considered that since the US has such extensive power as well as negative and positive influence on what happens around the world, it's not that people are hating on America so much as they are providing constructive criticism? This could also be analyzing on where America could better itself? Is pointing out a flaw or forming a complaint when an outside influence does something wrong or under performs automatically an attack? You say you have not personally met many people who you would classify as a stereotypical American so ponder on this. Its pretty stereotypical to believe that all Americans are so self-righteous and paranoid that any time someone outside, now even inside, says anything against the US, its citizens, international activities, or their governments policies it automatically means they are again the US and are attacking them? George Bush "You are either with us or against us." Rolling your eyes is essentially an attempt to belittle me when clearly you have made it about defending the US because you felt the poll was attacking it. That's called patriotism. You then looked up information on European responses to the same question purposefully to show that Europeans did worse than Americans, if that truly is the case to make America look better. You ripped on a poll because it made Americans look bad in your eyes and then used the same sort of poll to say Europeans are worse than Americans when it comes to these questions. I'm not really sure why you're rolling your eyes.

As for the question itself I'm not really sure where the confusion comes in when it clearly asks about the sun revolving around the earth and not does the earth revolve around the sun.

Yes, people suggested such possibilities about people living under rocks.

What I find unfortunate is that all this really feels like is you just feeling a need to correct me.

Anyway, I added a helpful guide to the opening comment. I hope it helps because aside from that and this post I'm not spending anymore time on the forum topic. It's been a mess since the beginning.
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Posted 2/20/14 , edited 2/20/14
I did not go looking for something that said Europeans did worse. I was looking for more information on the study since the link in the original post was lacking in information I wanted. So I went and looked it up. First article I found was from Time.com which is sponsored by CNN so it can be considered reliable information. I thought the fact was interesting particularly with how people were reacting. I don't think the fact necessarily was attacking Americans. Most people's reactions were, which is why I became offended, and also because I predicted that sort of reaction, people always look at the stupid people of any fandom, and it's the same when it comes to countries, race, religion etc, and it's annoying. I thought people needed to know that it's not just the US that has problems with that question.

I find it interesting that you say it's not scientific considering the last paragraph of the article says this "We won’t know the full results of the survey—or its methodology—until the National Science Foundation delivers its report to President Obama and U.S. lawmakers. But on this evidence we may end up getting a new national holiday out of this: Spread the Word That the Earth Revolves Around the Sun Day." That means that it's being taken seriously enough that the government is looking at the results, and with the limited information on how it was conducted so far, that has me concerned. If it's not scientific, then the results aren't accurate so neither are the statistics... yet it seems there will be discussion based on this.

I'm sorry but when people say things like "U.S.A.? Doesn't surprise me." I do get offended because that is some sort of derogatory comment and I don't think that's very constructive either.

I don't mean to correct. I like to have facts straight and to clarify things. And to acknowledge what other people say with my own knowledge or opinion instead of just focusing on whatever I want to after my first post. Maybe I should learn to just not participate since I do seem to get these sort of responses a lot. Too bad, I like engaging in decent discussions, and this did have the potential to be a good one.

Here's the article I referenced: http://newsfeed.time.com/2014/02/16/1-in-4-americans-thinks-sun-orbits-earth/#ixzz2tY4DDPkP
Posted 2/20/14
To the last paragraph. People like us who write these long statements well... no one really cares

Maybe I'm misunderstanding you but you did say the poll was attacking Americans, I just wanted to clarify that that's not what it was. From what you said then yes, pulling up information pointing out that Europeans fare worse will look like you're doing it to make Americans looks better. It seemed to me that you got defensive so if I'm wrong, it is what it is.

I was referring to the poll of 2,000 + people as not being scientific as sampling such a small demographic really does not give a full view of the situation. It was probably used by the NSF as a starting point to a deeper research project that is scientific. From what you've said it seems there will be further discussion based on continued research and not the poll itself. I don't think anyone in the scientific community would take a poll of 2,000+ people and claim the result as scientific fact when trying to evaluate an entire education system of a country with ~313 million people.

Anyway, your position sounds a lot clearer. I'm probably doing a poor job at trying to clarify the point of the thread.

You can participate as much as you'd like and I actually understand where you're coming from now so, do what you want.

If you've got a better way to form that opening comment I'm all ears.
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Posted 2/26/14
OP nuked.

Locked and closed.
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