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The meaning of the word gender
Posted 2/20/14


Oh the shit
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Posted 2/20/14
Genetically speaking you are either male or female. With a genetic disorder you might wind up with both, but one tends to be the dominant. Now a days people want to blend mental state in consideration of gender and use that. Sorry I'm old school. You were born either male, female or, have a medical disorder. Your mental state is irrelevant. This is not a statement versus anyone's sexuality, which is a completely different discussion. Irregardless of surgical enhancement and hormone therapy you cannot change what you were born as. If you stop taking the hormones after the surgery you will begin reverting to your original sex. The current "gender debate " is more aptly stated as the current " mental sexuality " debate.
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Posted 2/20/14
I think the Original Poster deserves credit for asking in the first place. The OP was wrong about the definition of the word gender vs. the word sex, but asking whether or not your position is insensitive... cannot itself be wholly insensitive. How are you supposed to listen if it is impossible to ask a question? Lots of folks do not start out with the words to ask their questions kindly-- but if we answer more kindly than angrily, then it is easier to understand each other.

I would also add that suggesting that someone's sex is the result of a disease or condition, suggests that there is something wrong with a lot of perfectly healthy people. We are learning that difference is not pathological-- having a sex that is not male or female can be as natural as having red hair.
Posted 2/20/14

taarakian wrote:

Genetically speaking you are either male or female. With a genetic disorder you might wind up with both, but one tends to be the dominant. Now a days people want to blend mental state in consideration of gender and use that. Sorry I'm old school. You were born either male, female or, have a medical disorder. Your mental state is irrelevant. This is not a statement versus anyone's sexuality, which is a completely different discussion. Irregardless of surgical enhancement and hormone therapy you cannot change what you were born as. If you stop taking the hormones after the surgery you will begin reverting to your original sex. The current "gender debate " is more aptly stated as the current " mental sexuality " debate.


Do you think that science is taking a backseat in recent times?
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Posted 2/20/14

taarakian wrote:

Genetically speaking you are either male or female. With a genetic disorder you might wind up with both, but one tends to be the dominant. Now a days people want to blend mental state in consideration of gender and use that. Sorry I'm old school. You were born either male, female or, have a medical disorder. Your mental state is irrelevant. This is not a statement versus anyone's sexuality, which is a completely different discussion. Irregardless of surgical enhancement and hormone therapy you cannot change what you were born as. If you stop taking the hormones after the surgery you will begin reverting to your original sex. The current "gender debate " is more aptly stated as the current " mental sexuality " debate.


Does that mean women who reach menopause stop being women?
Does that mean that a cancer patient who has had a double mastectomy is somehow a different gender?

I can understand disliking politically driven evolution of language. there was I time when I mockingly stated we'd have to start calling a sewer opening a 'person hole' and pointed out that words like policeman, fireman didn't change the fact that women had been part of EMS services for several years.

Times change. We say Firefighter, Police officer and Sewer opening. No woman I know is stupid enough to be unafraid of a 'man-eating' shark.

There are other words to describe someone who is rigidly old school. I'm not sorry for thinking them about you but I'll respect your dignity by not name calling.
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Posted 2/20/14
what you are thinking of is sex. you are born into one sex, either male or female. gender is a matter of identity and how you perceive yourself. you can be born as one sex, but your gender identity could be the opposite sex. people tend to have the misconception that the two are synonymous.

sex is determined by biology, and gender is determined by culture. there have been, and are cultures where 3 or 4 genders existed even if there are only two sexes.
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Posted 2/20/14

NFTS wrote:

what you are thinking of is sex. you are born into one sex, either male or female. gender is a matter of identity and how you perceive yourself. you can be born as one sex, but your gender identity could be the opposite sex. people tend to have the misconception that the two are synonymous.

sex is determined by biology, and gender is determined by culture. there have been, and are cultures where 3 or 4 genders existed even if there are only two sexes.


Although it's even more complex than that. there are many people born intersex or despite appearing to be a specific sex are have the XXY chromosone instead of XX or XY

There's also some evidence that people can have hormones of the other sex. And there has been little research about brain function differences between the sexes and how they may relate to gender perception.

Back in the day, (1800s and before) when male privilege was much more obvious and extensive. Some females impersonated males not over sexual orientation or gender dysphoria but because they were capable and wanted to do job they were told girls couldn't do.


Posted 2/20/14
At sites like these I use 'Gender' to describe my 'Sex', but I don't have the terms confused. I'm also not confused about my gender, it's just that I never had one; I'm not a man, woman, or trans. I observe that my vessel is male, which is meaningless to me, and I observe that I do not feel sexually attracted to- or sexually acceptant of the male anatomy of others. I also observe that femininity and masculinity often irritates me, as I view them as strange and unnecessary theatricals, and tools that insecure people often use to prove or reassure their position in a societal structure that is meaningless to me. Classifications and specifications is not necessary in my case, and whatever strange theatricals the rest of the world wants to perform is their business as long if they don't involve me.
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Posted 2/20/14 , edited 2/20/14
Here's a clearcut framework of definitions you can all use as taught in college biology/sex ed classes.

Genotypical Sex: Your Karyotype (chromosome count and typing), the actual genes on your chromosomes, and any mutations or gene swaps. Ie: your chromosomes and related genes. In terms of genetic sex this is not necessarily clear cut. Along with having different Karyotypes than XX and XY like X0, XXY, XXX, XYY etc, someone with an XY Karyotype may lack an SRY gene and therefore grow female reproductive organs in utero, or someone with an XX karyotype might have that gene and therefore grow male parts. There are other things too, for example with Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome, where someone is missing the AR (Androgen Receptor) Gene on all of their X chromosomes. In an XY Karyotype person, this can result in female development in utero given a lack of sensitivity to testosterone, albeit that person will likely be infertile. There are many other conditions like this, but in general, they all fall under the category of intersex. Transsexual people and certain transgender people may or may not have atypical genotypical sex, this matter is currently unclear from a scientific perspective.

Phenotypical Sex: Observable/Developed Traits. IE: Primary Sex characteristics such as the genitalia, and secondary sex characteristics such as skeletal structure, body fat distribution, skin texture, brain architecture and personal temperment, hair texture and growth, etc. In general, anything you can see, excluding genetics. The reason for a transsexual or transgender person (both types of people who don't completely identify with their birth gender) for being what they are would likely fall under this category in regards to the structure of their mind and their temperament, and a transsexual (someone who doesn't identify with their birth sex as well) would also have phenotypical traits of the sex they weren't born as after hormone therapy, electrolysis/laser treatments, surgeries, etc.

Phenotypical traits are caused by environmental factors (like where you live, diet, etc), and genotype. Transsexuals and transgender people may or may not have their conditions due to in utero environmental effects on their minds or perhaps due to upbringing. This matter is, however, unclear.

Gender: Cultural roles in society originally constructed around observable differences in sexual function, stereotypical or otherwise. IE: Girls wear dresses and homemake, men go serve in the military and work. Cisgender people (the majority of the people in society) feel comfortable with the gender aligned with their birth sex, transgender and transsexual people do not. There are alot of genders on facebook now mainly due to discontent people have with the traditional binary gender system for personal and biological reasons.

Hope that clears things up for all of you, and for the op as to why we're not going to change the term gender to mean something else. We already have genotypical and phenotypical sex as terms for what you're mentioning.
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Posted 2/20/14
Your gender is whatever you believe it to be
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Posted 2/20/14
I thought gender was a bunch of geese
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Posted 2/20/14

uncletim wrote:

I thought gender was a bunch of geese
Your geese is whatever you believe it to be
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Posted 2/20/14

Jsybird2532 wrote:

Here's a clearcut framework of definitions you can all use as taught in college biology/sex ed classes.

Genotypical Sex: Your Karyotype (chromosome count and typing), the actual genes on your chromosomes, and any mutations or gene swaps. Ie: your chromosomes and related genes. In terms of genetic sex this is not necessarily clear cut. Along with having different Karyotypes than XX and XY like X0, XXY, XXX, XYY etc, someone with an XY Karyotype may lack an SRY gene and therefore grow female reproductive organs in utero, or someone with an XX karyotype might have that gene and therefore grow male parts. There are other things too, for example with Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome, where someone is missing the AR (Androgen Receptor) Gene on all of their X chromosomes. In an XY Karyotype person, this can result in female development in utero given a lack of sensitivity to testosterone, albeit that person will likely be infertile. There are many other conditions like this, but in general, they all fall under the category of intersex. Transsexual people and certain transgender people may or may not have atypical genotypical sex, this matter is currently unclear from a scientific perspective.

Phenotypical Sex: Observable/Developed Traits. IE: Primary Sex characteristics such as the genitalia, and secondary sex characteristics such as skeletal structure, body fat distribution, skin texture, brain architecture and personal temperment, hair texture and growth, etc. In general, anything you can see, excluding genetics. The reason for a transsexual or transgender person (both types of people who don't completely identify with their birth gender) for being what they are would likely fall under this category in regards to the structure of their mind and their temperament, and a transsexual (someone who doesn't identify with their birth sex as well) would also have phenotypical traits of the sex they weren't born as after hormone therapy, electrolysis/laser treatments, surgeries, etc.

Phenotypical traits are caused by environmental factors (like where you live, diet, etc), and genotype. Transsexuals and transgender people may or may not have their conditions due to in utero environmental effects on their minds or perhaps due to upbringing. This matter is, however, unclear.

Gender: Cultural roles in society originally constructed around observable differences in sexual function, stereotypical or otherwise. IE: Girls wear dresses and homemake, men go serve in the military and work. Cisgender people (the majority of the people in society) feel comfortable with the gender aligned with their birth sex, transgender and transsexual people do not. There are alot of genders on facebook now mainly due to discontent people have with the traditional binary gender system for personal and biological reasons.

Hope that clears things up for all of you, and for the op as to why we're not going to change the term gender to mean something else. We already have genotypical and phenotypical sex as terms for what you're mentioning.


Thanks, it's nice to have a really informed person make the science clear. Then we can't be told the moon is made of green cheese because some 'old school' person thinks the science says so.

Posted 2/20/14 , edited 2/20/14
Not much changes

http://www.sciencecodex.com/viewing_genderspecific_objects_influences_perception_of_gender_identity-99116

The first possibility they suggest is that common brain regions may be involved in identifying gender-associated objects and identifying the gender of androgynous faces, so the effect is akin to what occurs in the red screen-white screen example above. Alternately, the researchers suggest that a higher cognitive function of 'adapting to gender' may modulate the process of 'assigning gender', whether to an object or an androgynous face.

"This study highlights how exposure to objects in our environment can affect our perception of gender in everyday life" says Javadi, lead author of the paper.

Your mental state is still very much irrelevant. Only facebook wants to come out on top, rule. Help you make those tribes and you will be a slave.
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Posted 2/20/14



^All of this :D

Also I'd like to add in that as a Genderqueer I was incredibly happy to see that my gender was added, especially since I had messaged FB a few times asking for it to be done =)

Gender the way I see it is just that. "Gender Identity". And if identifying differently makes somebody happy, I have no clue why it would bother people, it literally has zero effect on those around that person...
Live and let live <3
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