First  Prev  1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9  10  11  12  13  14  Next  Last
The meaning of the word gender
75430 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
49 / F / Center of the Uni...
Offline
Posted 2/20/14 , edited 2/20/14

demongurrl13 wrote:


papagolfwhiskey wrote:

It's important to the people who feel male or female YOU MUST CHOOSE ONE. doesn't describe them. If it's not important to you, what is the problem?

It's important to facebook I'm sure. Though I suspect It's less about being progressive and more about targeted ads. when I let face book know I'd traded in my jockey shorts for pantyhose they immediately stopped sending me adds for 40 something single girls and started instead showing me pictures of hot guys 'In your home city!'



Why do you assume that there's a problem? That I have a problem with it or something... I'm just curious.

What I don't understand is why you seem to be so defensive of the need for them and why you seem to be on a crusade on this thread.

I simply find it interesting that the more people feel the need to be accepted and recognized by society, the more they keep finding ways to put up social barriers to separate everyone and highlight all our differences. At the end of the day, there are more people left out than accepted.



because 'they' are not a 'they' to me but a bunch of specific people with names and dreams and hopes. and pain. I speak up for them out of fear that no one else will. I'm happy to be wrong in that regard.

and yes I'm passionate about it the issue. sue me.

PS
You haven't seen me on other threads. sometimes I just get bitten by the bug that 'someone is wrong on the internet'



Sometimes I enjoy serious give and take with someone who brought their wits loaded and their logic cocked and ready.
and sometimes the pedant in me takes over. The threads I'm on. I'm on.

but as a T-girl myself with a lot of friends in the LGBT+ community this one hits closer to home. (you shoulda seen me on facebook )


so yes, I have a tendency to speak up when I perceive a lack of knowledge whether willful or honest. I have a tendency to speak up when I know I can speak from knowledge. It's hard to tell people the moon is made of green cheese when there is an astronaut in the room. and I really have a tendency to speak up when it's something that touches me directly.

Weather it's freedom of expression. http://www.crunchyroll.com/forumtopic-838619/lolicon-psa-an-in-depth-analysis


Or the perception of furries.http://www.crunchyroll.com/forumtopic-339707/furries?pg=16#34627363
Posted 2/20/14
Posted 2/20/14

papagolfwhiskey wrote:

because 'they' are not a 'they' to me but a bunch of specific people with names and dreams and hopes. and pain. I speak up for them out of fear that no one else will. I'm happy to be wrong in that regard.

and yes I'm passionate about it the issue. sue me.



So you are passionate about making sure human beings are properly labeled and segregated in their appointed cages?

I just want to make it clear that I have nothing against the added gender terms. If that is what makes people happy and satisfied, then go right ahead. I just wish to understand what makes it such a great thing and why you and a lot of people feel so strongly about it.

So far all I have is that people need it for their own self-satisfaction. If there is more to it, please feel free to enlighten me.
786 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
18 / M / new york
Offline
Posted 2/20/14 , edited 2/20/14

papagolfwhiskey wrote:


NFTS wrote:

what you are thinking of is sex. you are born into one sex, either male or female. gender is a matter of identity and how you perceive yourself. you can be born as one sex, but your gender identity could be the opposite sex. people tend to have the misconception that the two are synonymous.

sex is determined by biology, and gender is determined by culture. there have been, and are cultures where 3 or 4 genders existed even if there are only two sexes.


Although it's even more complex than that. there are many people born intersex or despite appearing to be a specific sex are have the XXY chromosone instead of XX or XY

There's also some evidence that people can have hormones of the other sex. And there has been little research about brain function differences between the sexes and how they may relate to gender perception.

Back in the day, (1800s and before) when male privilege was much more obvious and extensive. Some females impersonated males not over sexual orientation or gender dysphoria but because they were capable and wanted to do job they were told girls couldn't do.




yup, all perfectly accurate points. sex, gender, and sexuality are all extremely complex, and to approach it as a black and white issue is as ignorant as it is scientifically incorrect.

as for the cases of women pretending to be men in order to carry out culturally male-exclusive careers or privileges, it's not really gender identity. these cases were more of women trying to overcome discrimination.
75430 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
49 / F / Center of the Uni...
Offline
Posted 2/20/14

demongurrl13 wrote:


papagolfwhiskey wrote:

because 'they' are not a 'they' to me but a bunch of specific people with names and dreams and hopes. and pain. I speak up for them out of fear that no one else will. I'm happy to be wrong in that regard.

and yes I'm passionate about it the issue. sue me.



So you are passionate about making sure human beings are properly labeled and segregated in their appointed cages?

I just want to make it clear that I have nothing against the added gender terms. If that is what makes people happy and satisfied, then go right ahead. I just wish to understand what makes it such a great thing and why you and a lot of people feel so strongly about it.

So far all I have is that people need it for their own self-satisfaction. If there is more to it, please feel free to enlighten me.


Now you're getting into the difference between something that matters to me personally and something that matters to people I care about.

For this person with gender dysphoria (me) and I infer from the conversations with others like me. but I'll talk about me. Life was ... a dangerous masquerade, of desperately pretending to be someone you were not because to act any other way was to invite derision, rejection, and pain. The moment you can truly say this is me, this is who I am. is liberating heady, empowering and feels finally like you've been acknowledged as the whole person you really are. For me it was easy enough since I have no problems with the gender binary. I just identified with the other half. But I've come to know on my journey many people who don't even have that outlet. For whom.. who they are doesn't fit into either of the narrow two choices offered. It was a little alien to me to be honest. but I could emphasis with the pain at least.

You see them as cages. but the cage for these people was having only the choice of Male or Female. being able to take a word that meant something to THEIR core identity and say NO I'm not a boy or a girl I'm X. means a lot to them. I resent anyone who tries to take it away from them.

Appointed Cages. wow. sorry that's alien thinking to me too.

31372 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
25 / F / Connecticut
Offline
Posted 2/20/14

papagolfwhiskey wrote:


Jsybird2532 wrote:


demongurrl13 wrote:


papagolfwhiskey wrote:

Then why not remove gender all together from face book? M and F are already tags with containers. But somehow the people trying to kick holes in their boxes are making it worse?



Not my words.
I just don't get what the obsession is with fitting into set categories.
Is it really that important to be separated in that sense?





As papagolfwhiskey (PGF comes to mind as I type that given the NATO alphabet, does that mean anything? lol) said, it's important to those who feel it's important, which is seemingly a large portion of the world. My hypothesis is that this is mostly due to how people have been brought up to perceive things like gender and sexuality over the course of history given cultural bias.

Anyway, I believe it was actually possible before this change was instituted, and still is to go without a gender on facebook, the system would just refer to you with gender neutral pronouns and such.


That would be my Cousin PapaGolfFoxtrot. but yes. It's some of my initials in Phonetic Alphabet. I suppose if I were old school oh wait.. Abel.. Baker... Charlie ... Dog... ... I think it would still be PapaGolfWhiskey.



Damn I'm half-asleep mixing the f in golf with whiskey--lol.
Posted 2/20/14

NFTS wrote:

as for the cases of women pretending to be men in order to carry out culturally male-exclusive careers or privileges, it's not really gender identity. these cases were more of women trying to overcome discrimination.


And they thought that those women were asexual.

75430 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
49 / F / Center of the Uni...
Offline
Posted 2/20/14

NFTS wrote:



as for the cases of women pretending to be men in order to carry out culturally male-exclusive careers or privileges, it's not really gender identity. these cases were more of women trying to overcome discrimination.


er that's what I thought I said but... yeah. In other places and times other social issues got added to the pot. Here in this time, for example the ignorant bundle up everyone in the LGBTQRST+ community under the various labels for gays and lesbians. To them we're all Fags.

Posted 2/20/14 , edited 2/20/14

papagolfwhiskey wrote:


NFTS wrote:



as for the cases of women pretending to be men in order to carry out culturally male-exclusive careers or privileges, it's not really gender identity. these cases were more of women trying to overcome discrimination.


er that's what I thought I said but... yeah. In other places and times other social issues got added to the pot. Here in this time, for example the ignorant bundle up everyone in the LGBTQRST+ community under the various labels for gays and lesbians. To them we're all Fags.



They were looking for a cure.

I also remember reading that men played female parts in theater


At one point you seem to want gender neutralism then the next ,you are praising facebook for potentially increasing cyber bullying, encouraging separetism and creation of micro- internet tribes that can lead to Darwinism's survival of the fittest.

I don't understand you.
786 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
18 / M / new york
Offline
Posted 2/20/14 , edited 2/20/14

papagolfwhiskey wrote:


NFTS wrote:



as for the cases of women pretending to be men in order to carry out culturally male-exclusive careers or privileges, it's not really gender identity. these cases were more of women trying to overcome discrimination.


er that's what I thought I said but... yeah. In other places and times other social issues got added to the pot. Here in this time, for example the ignorant bundle up everyone in the LGBTQRST+ community under the various labels for gays and lesbians. To them we're all Fags.



i couldn't agree more. people tend to not realize that it's not just gay and straight, male and female. it's really more of a very elaborate spectrum. if we're going by labels then i would consider myself gay, but quite honestly, why should it be a big deal who we like or what we identify as? i personally don't like labels, mainly because i feel everybody is different when it comes to these things, so i don't really see why we try to classify people into groups when we are all unique. to me, labels are just an attempt to classify something that really can't be classified accurately.
118 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
23 / M
Offline
Posted 2/20/14
Don't hate me.
75430 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
49 / F / Center of the Uni...
Offline
Posted 2/20/14 , edited 2/20/14
Re Labels. well yes and no

I very strongly believe that people aren't their labels and we should never see someone just as <insert label here> most 'isms' start that way.

That said. labels are how we as humans work. Computer Graphics and Science in general work by breaking everything down into distinct components that can be assigned a numerical value and whom have known mathematical relationships with each other. And thus we can use math to make a model of reality. It's morally neutral. The ability to model reality with mathematics allows shells and bombs to be more accurate about who they kill when some stranger in a room pushes a button. It also allows us to create live singing sensations who only exist as code and smoke and mirrors.

Language is labels. I however inaccurately, am able to only share my thoughts by breaking down their kaleidoscopic beauty into concepts we call words, structuring them via grammar, and then because you use the same decoder ring of language ... you get a glimpse of my thoughts.

Labels aren't the only way to go. That's why we have Art and the 'soft sciences' (mostly the ones revolving people and personalities) but they are a useful and morally neutral tool.

Labels are fine as long as you remember that the person is not the label.
118 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
23 / M
Offline
Posted 2/20/14 , edited 2/20/14



i couldn't agree more. people tend to not realize that it's not just gay and straight, male and female. it's really more of a very elaborate spectrum. if we're going by labels then i would consider myself gay, but quite honestly, why should it be a big deal who we like or what we identify as? i personally don't like labels, mainly because i feel everybody is different when it comes to these things, so i don't really see why we try to classify people into groups when we are all unique. to me, labels are just an attempt to classify something that really can't be classified accurately.


If you're gay, the last thing even cross your mind is 'going by labels, at least that's what I thought. But hey, who am I to type like that, I'm not gay.
Posted 2/20/14

papagolfwhiskey wrote:

Now you're getting into the difference between something that matters to me personally and something that matters to people I care about.

For this person with gender dysphoria (me) and I infer from the conversations with others like me. but I'll talk about me. Life was ... a dangerous masquerade, of desperately pretending to be someone you were not because to act any other way was to invite derision, rejection, and pain. The moment you can truly say this is me, this is who I am. is liberating heady, empowering and feels finally like you've been acknowledged as the whole person you really are. For me it was easy enough since I have no problems with the gender binary. I just identified with the other half. But I've come to know on my journey many people who don't even have that outlet. For whom.. who they are doesn't fit into either of the narrow two choices offered. It was a little alien to me to be honest. but I could emphasis with the pain at least.

You see them as cages. but the cage for these people was having only the choice of Male or Female. being able to take a word that meant something to THEIR core identity and say NO I'm not a boy or a girl I'm X. means a lot to them. I resent anyone who tries to take it away from them.

Appointed Cages. wow. sorry that's alien thinking to me too.



I can see how that can be empowering, sure.

However, I do see them as appointed cages because even now with the addition of other recognized genders it's still a case of "if you're this then you go here, if you're that then you go there."

It's still propagating a system of segregation where people's differences are highlighted as opposed to being accepted and integrated.

I've always wondered why people don't just go, "No! We won't let our differences define who we are!"

Then again, that might cause total anarchy. I guess, there always has to be some form of order in this world in order for us to survive.
786 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
18 / M / new york
Offline
Posted 2/20/14

happy-pizza-face wrote:




i couldn't agree more. people tend to not realize that it's not just gay and straight, male and female. it's really more of a very elaborate spectrum. if we're going by labels then i would consider myself gay, but quite honestly, why should it be a big deal who we like or what we identify as? i personally don't like labels, mainly because i feel everybody is different when it comes to these things, so i don't really see why we try to classify people into groups when we are all unique. to me, labels are just an attempt to classify something that really can't be classified accurately.


If you're gay, the last thing even cross your mind is 'going by labels, at least that's what I thought. But hey, who am I to type like that, I'm not gay.


the reason i said that is because "gay" doesn't completely and accurately describe my sexuality, but it is the label that i can most closely associate with.
First  Prev  1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9  10  11  12  13  14  Next  Last
You must be logged in to post.