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What love is
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Sogno- wrote:

Apostle Paul knows where it's at

Celibacy?
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nanikore2 wrote:


Saw some old threads on the same subject, but unfortunately they're locked by now so I couldn't chime in without starting one. However, it's just as well because (sorry, I really don't mean any disrespect) I found some of the answers rather appalling.

I'm going to write about love. People (especially younger people- This is for them) can take it or leave it but I really hope that at least someone out there would listen and take in even a small bit of what I say because this is really important.

Three things I'm going to try to do:

-NOT be pedantic because that means insta-zoneouts. I'll try making it at least slightly interesting, sorry if people fall sleep anyways
-NOT claim or act like any kind of an expert (I haven't been married very long myself- Only 7 years instead of some real veterans of marriage)
-Actually help someone, even if it's just one person, to understand the topic more

Before we go into what love is, we need to first, through a process of elimination, say what love is NOT.

Love is not just a feeling. It is not just an emotion.

People focus far too much on what is known as romantic love (Greek term: eros). Feelings are fleeting, and if you just focus on them then love could be there one day and not be there the next; It could even be there one moment and not be there the next! This is not the way love should be. If love is subject to mere whim then there might as well not be love. Personal preferences and likings are whimsical but please do not apply it to love unless you want this "love" to be extremely fragile and not able to stand up to any sort of a test whatsoever. When the feeling isn't there, boom! That's it. This easy-come, easy-go conception of love is downright harmful.

Love is not about you. It is not about what you're getting out of the other person.

What happens when love is carried out in a self-centered manner is this. Each person carries expectations on what he or she would and should get out of the relationship and how the other person should be in general. It's the old "what's in it for me?" and "What have you done for me today?" Love thus becomes completely conditional upon the performance of the other party. "If you love me, you would change" "If you love me, you would do this" and "I've done all these things for you, didn't you see?" or "I made these adjustments, why can't you?". If the expectations aren't met, then it's Fail Time. Enough failures then boom! It's done. This vending machine conception of love would be one heck of a tough thing to live under. Love is not bought by anyone's good behavior. It is not some kind of a "deal" that you sign up on and then cancel out of.

Okay, all these things about what love isn't. Then was IS love?

Love is selfless giving (closest Greek term: agape). Part of this selfless giving involves commitment, and the other involves a whole lot of work. Yes- WORK. A love relationship takes quite a bit a work to maintain, which may surprise a lot of people. If someone is not prepared to commit and do some serious work FOR and WITH this other person (of course, it has to be two people doing it at the same time- Love has much more to do about what you do than what you feel) ...then there had better be some second thoughts about whether it's love that's being done instead of something akin to liking, appreciation, infatuation, "luv", "wub", et cetera.

Some finer point regarding the characteristics of love and I'll be done.

Love is patient – Since you're committed to the other person, it takes patience to work things through even if it's something small like waiting for your wife to finish choosing what to wear.

Love is kind – It goes without saying that you had better be nice even when you don't exactly feel like being nice. Control yourself, before doing anything hasty that might hurt the other person.

It does not envy – You and the other person is a team now. A team member doesn't say to the other team member, "Hey! Last night I scored more points than you" or "How come you always get the better T-shirt?" Team members don't compete with each other or get jealous of each other (e.g. what each person has accomplished or how much money that person earned) because at the end it's about the team.

It does not boast – "See how much I've done for you lately?" is NOT the best thing to say to a love one if you want help or concessions. Not only boasting is practically bad, it's bad on principle [see what I mentioned above about "vending machine love"]

It is not proud – When you love someone you treat him or her as an equal (parent-child notwithstanding). When you want something, you can ask an equal instead of commanding an underling.

It does not dishonor others – We all know it's way easier said than done, but flinging insults and insinuations only serve to drive people apart. You do not "win" an argument or a shouting contest. Love and respect goes together.

It is not self-seeking – Again, love is for the benefit of the other. What you seek is not you but the wellness of the other. Love often involves sacrifice.

It is not easily angered – When you get angry, what you can easily forget is the fact that you two are supposed to be one team instead of one person going "against" this other person. Do not forget that the two of you are supposed to stand together, be patient toward one another, and also...

It keeps no record of wrongs – Forgive one another of wrong and slights (perceived or otherwise; It takes communication to figure out and smooth out misunderstandings. Again, this takes work; To just be upset takes no work but it only leads to harm. Even working out an apology takes work!)

Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth – If and when you notice something is really amiss with the other person, you would have to lovingly and patiently correct him or her. Just standing by and let the other person self-destruct or others-destruct is not what one would define "freedom". Be patient, be kind, listen, but also be not afraid to speak out. Silence only isolates and separates.

It always protects – It is also your job to protect your loved ones, including slights and slander, whether coming from other people or even from yourself.

Always trusts - How well can a team function when you can't trust each other? Give the benefit of the doubt, forgive, and work to build trust.

Always hopes, always perseveres – Don't give up the first moment something goes wrong. I know this is a broken record by now but love takes work and patience. For love to last, there must be perseverance and hope.

That's it. It got longer than I planned- I hope it was palatable and helpful.

Nice exposition.I can't help wondering what it looks like when you decide to be pedantic.
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chocolates
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nanikore2 wrote:


saksiss wrote:

Love doesn't exist. It's simply a glorified term for relying on others, which is weak.


That is a self-centered kind of "love", which does make one weak.

When one is strong, one loves.


That is so corny. But to each their own, I guess.
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saksiss wrote:

Love doesn't exist. It's simply a glorified term for relying on others, which is weak.


Weak is a bit harsh but I do have to agree,

not saying love can't be a feeling I mean i was in love for 3 years and honestly after the break up I felt a lot stronger that makes me sound heartless but it's true. I think it works for some people and doesn't, I just find relationships annoying now maybe because I only felt the touch of love once. or ect not to get all soapy up in here but honestly it does give you an opportunity to be hurt or broken or exposed.

if you fall in love or whatever your definition of it is that's great but be prepared if it doesn't work out.
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Posted 2/23/14 , edited 2/23/14

pirththee wrote:

Nice exposition.I can't help wondering what it looks like when you decide to be pedantic.


For your curious eyes only
(cut-paste OT bloc, do not read unless there's absolutely nothing else to see)



hellisfire wrote:

not saying love can't be a feeling I mean i was in love for 3 years and honestly after the break up I felt a lot stronger that makes me sound heartless but it's true. I think it works for some people and doesn't, I just find relationships annoying now maybe because I only felt the touch of love once. or ect not to get all soapy up in here but honestly it does give you an opportunity to be hurt or broken or exposed.

if you fall in love or whatever your definition of it is that's great but be prepared if it doesn't work out.


In my experience, disappointments and annoyances (to put it lightly) were all preparations for The Real Deal. Of course, one had better be prepared TO make that one work and make it stick come thick and thin...
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Love is something most people aren't capable off. The word gets thrown around with no meaning.
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Posted 2/23/14

WRoksana wrote:

Love is something most people aren't capable off. The word gets thrown around with no meaning.


None of us is perfect, but as long as people are willing to love there's still hope. Love takes practice.
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nanikore2 wrote:


pirththee wrote:

Nice exposition.I can't help wondering what it looks like when you decide to be pedantic.


For your curious eyes only
(cut-paste OT bloc, do not read unless there's absolutely nothing else to see)This reminds me of a line from the movie FireFly.



hellisfire wrote:

not saying love can't be a feeling I mean i was in love for 3 years and honestly after the break up I felt a lot stronger that makes me sound heartless but it's true. I think it works for some people and doesn't, I just find relationships annoying now maybe because I only felt the touch of love once. or ect not to get all soapy up in here but honestly it does give you an opportunity to be hurt or broken or exposed.

if you fall in love or whatever your definition of it is that's great but be prepared if it doesn't work out.


In my experience, disappointments and annoyances (to put it lightly) were all preparations for The Real Deal. Of course, one had better be prepared TO make that one work and make it stick come thick and thin...


Weak force.Newton would disagree .You said it yourself "We Witness" There's the rub.EPR Paradox. Perception is both affirmation and denial.Philosophy- is the investigation of the overall nature of reality.Let's see ,(now I'm doing it,), What do the four corners of the mortarboard represent?I'm starting to appreciate the utility of Haiku.
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Posted 2/23/14

pirththee wrote:




Why does anything change, at all?
Posted 2/23/14 , edited 2/23/14

saksiss wrote:

Love doesn't exist. It's simply a glorified term for relying on others, which is weak.


I love you
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Posted 2/23/14 , edited 2/23/14

nanikore2 wrote:


Saw some old threads on the same subject, but unfortunately they're locked by now so I couldn't chime in without starting one. However, it's just as well because (sorry, I really don't mean any disrespect) I found some of the answers rather appalling.

I'm going to write about love. People (especially younger people- This is for them) can take it or leave it but I really hope that at least someone out there would listen and take in even a small bit of what I say because this is really important.

Three things I'm going to try to do:

-NOT be pedantic because that means insta-zoneouts. I'll try making it at least slightly interesting, sorry if people fall sleep anyways
-NOT claim or act like any kind of an expert (I haven't been married very long myself- Only 7 years instead of some real veterans of marriage)
-Actually help someone, even if it's just one person, to understand the topic more

Before we go into what love is, we need to first, through a process of elimination, say what love is NOT.

Love is not just a feeling. It is not just an emotion.

People focus far too much on what is known as romantic love (Greek term: eros). Feelings are fleeting, and if you just focus on them then love could be there one day and not be there the next; It could even be there one moment and not be there the next! This is not the way love should be. If love is subject to mere whim then there might as well not be love. Personal preferences and likings are whimsical but please do not apply it to love unless you want this "love" to be extremely fragile and not able to stand up to any sort of a test whatsoever. When the feeling isn't there, boom! That's it. This easy-come, easy-go conception of love is downright harmful.

Love is not about you. It is not about what you're getting out of the other person.

What happens when love is carried out in a self-centered manner is this. Each person carries expectations on what he or she would and should get out of the relationship and how the other person should be in general. It's the old "what's in it for me?" and "What have you done for me today?" Love thus becomes completely conditional upon the performance of the other party. "If you love me, you would change" "If you love me, you would do this" and "I've done all these things for you, didn't you see?" or "I made these adjustments, why can't you?". If the expectations aren't met, then it's Fail Time. Enough failures then boom! It's done. This vending machine conception of love would be one heck of a tough thing to live under. Love is not bought by anyone's good behavior. It is not some kind of a "deal" that you sign up on and then cancel out of.

Okay, all these things about what love isn't. Then was IS love?

Love is selfless giving (closest Greek term: agape). Part of this selfless giving involves commitment, and the other involves a whole lot of work. Yes- WORK. A love relationship takes quite a bit a work to maintain, which may surprise a lot of people. If someone is not prepared to commit and do some serious work FOR and WITH this other person (of course, it has to be two people doing it at the same time- Love has much more to do about what you do than what you feel) ...then there had better be some second thoughts about whether it's love that's being done instead of something akin to liking, appreciation, infatuation, "luv", "wub", et cetera.

Some finer point regarding the characteristics of love and I'll be done.

Love is patient – Since you're committed to the other person, it takes patience to work things through even if it's something small like waiting for your wife to finish choosing what to wear.

Love is kind – It goes without saying that you had better be nice even when you don't exactly feel like being nice. Control yourself, before doing anything hasty that might hurt the other person.

It does not envy – You and the other person is a team now. A team member doesn't say to the other team member, "Hey! Last night I scored more points than you" or "How come you always get the better T-shirt?" Team members don't compete with each other or get jealous of each other (e.g. what each person has accomplished or how much money that person earned) because at the end it's about the team.

It does not boast – "See how much I've done for you lately?" is NOT the best thing to say to a love one if you want help or concessions. Not only boasting is practically bad, it's bad on principle [see what I mentioned above about "vending machine love"]

It is not proud – When you love someone you treat him or her as an equal (parent-child notwithstanding). When you want something, you can ask an equal instead of commanding an underling.

It does not dishonor others – We all know it's way easier said than done, but flinging insults and insinuations only serve to drive people apart. You do not "win" an argument or a shouting contest. Love and respect goes together.

It is not self-seeking – Again, love is for the benefit of the other. What you seek is not you but the wellness of the other. Love often involves sacrifice.

It is not easily angered – When you get angry, what you can easily forget is the fact that you two are supposed to be one team instead of one person going "against" this other person. Do not forget that the two of you are supposed to stand together, be patient toward one another, and also...

It keeps no record of wrongs – Forgive one another of wrong and slights (perceived or otherwise; It takes communication to figure out and smooth out misunderstandings. Again, this takes work; To just be upset takes no work but it only leads to harm. Even working out an apology takes work!)

Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth – If and when you notice something is really amiss with the other person, you would have to lovingly and patiently correct him or her. Just standing by and let the other person self-destruct or others-destruct is not what one would define "freedom". Be patient, be kind, listen, but also be not afraid to speak out. Silence only isolates and separates.

It always protects – It is also your job to protect your loved ones, including slights and slander, whether coming from other people or even from yourself.

Always trusts - How well can a team function when you can't trust each other? Give the benefit of the doubt, forgive, and work to build trust.

Always hopes, always perseveres – Don't give up the first moment something goes wrong. I know this is a broken record by now but love takes work and patience. For love to last, there must be perseverance and hope.

That's it. It got longer than I planned- I hope it was palatable and helpful.


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Posted 2/23/14

nanikore2 wrote:


pirththee wrote:




Why does anything change, at all?

Perception.
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Posted 2/23/14

Sornette wrote:


saksiss wrote:

Love doesn't exist. It's simply a glorified term for relying on others, which is weak.


I love you


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