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Russia invades Ukraine
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25 / M / houston,tx
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Posted 3/2/14
Father and son. Just imagine what they must be thinking.
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49 / F / Center of the Uni...
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Posted 3/2/14

crypticcrunch wrote:

Embarrassing for the west who can't keep their promises of protection they made for getting the UKR nukes disposed of.

I'm sure everyone but the craziest are glad the Ukraine didn't keep their warheads at this moment. Whether they admit it or not.

I would just negotiate a careful surrender of the Crimea, or turn it into an autonomous area... I don't envy Putin or the West, this is a fiasco they have no good way to untangle without loosing face, so they have no way of untangling it without damaging their pathetic political standing. So, in their very small minds, they have no way out.

Hopefully none of the pinheads make it worse.


The whole 'autonomous' zone thing didn't work out for what became Bohemia and Moravia, back in 1938-39. Being too "reasonable" risks being this generation's Neville Chamberlain. I don't have any better answers but it's easy for us sitting safe in our own countries to decided what 'Should' be done with the Ukraine. Harder I suspect to deal with the reality on the ground.


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Posted 3/2/14

papagolfwhiskey wrote:

The whole 'autonomous' zone thing didn't work out for what became Bohemia and Moravia, back in 1938-39. Being too "reasonable" risks being this generation's Neville Chamberlain. I don't have any better answers but it's easy for us sitting safe in our own countries to decided what 'Should' be done with the Ukraine. Harder I suspect to deal with the reality on the ground.




Ah, yes. All those autonomous zones never work. Never ever. So many examples still exist today, and go on for centuries ( I can cite examples from the Roman era ). Some of them are now small countries of their own, or are returned peacefully to their neighbors through negotiation. but they never work.

I should have known, they never ever work, since there is one example where they were trampled over. Not that it would matter either way, since if they were assigned to countries, Hitler invaded those too. But I take your point, they clearly caused WWII. Clearly, an insane German and his followers was not to blame, it was the autonomous zones that did it.

I'm just a Neville Chamberlain. Putin is Hitler. Very good. End of the conversation. Thanks, you really straightened it out for me. It was all so simple the whole time.

Instead, we should just start WWIII now. Off you go. Have fun.

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24 / M / Fairyland
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Posted 3/2/14
With the number of force Russia have... everyone may as well just surrender
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20 / M / Tórshavn
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Posted 3/2/14

crypticcrunch wrote:

Embarrassing for the west who can't keep their promises of protection they made for getting the UKR nukes disposed of.

I'm sure everyone but the craziest are glad the Ukraine didn't keep their warheads at this moment. Whether they admit it or not.

I would just negotiate a careful surrender of the Crimea, or turn it into an autonomous area... I don't envy Putin or the West, this is a fiasco they have no good way to untangle without loosing face, so they have no way of untangling it without damaging their pathetic political standing. So, in their very small minds, they have no way out.

Hopefully none of the pinheads make it worse.


They didn't 'promise' any kind of help in that treaty, they only said that; if anything were to happen they will have a meeting with the UN and then discuss this and then probably send an angry letter to Russia, but the fact is, Russia has veto power and supplies one third of the gas and oil in EU, so I don't think they would dare to try something fishy.

Lastly, Russia isn't in this for land, they want their bases in Crimea and most of the people in Crimea are pro-Russian anyway, I don't see why the hell all these western countries are trying to involve themselves with this, the Russians have kept to the law when it comes to adding soldiers to protect a base, which it is allowed to because of the revolution, Putin doesn't want a naval base end up in the hands of Extremists (which are the ones that control the revolution at this point) He isn't there to start anything, that's only what the western media wants everyone to think.
If anything happens it was not an act of aggression of Russia, it will be the stupidity of the people who try something against Russia.
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49 / F / Center of the Uni...
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Posted 3/2/14 , edited 3/2/14

crypticcrunch wrote:


papagolfwhiskey wrote:

The whole 'autonomous' zone thing didn't work out for what became Bohemia and Moravia, back in 1938-39. Being too "reasonable" risks being this generation's Neville Chamberlain. I don't have any better answers but it's easy for us sitting safe in our own countries to decided what 'Should' be done with the Ukraine. Harder I suspect to deal with the reality on the ground.




Ah, yes. All those autonomous zones never work. Never ever. So many examples still exist today, and go on for centuries ( I can cite examples from the Roman era ). Some of them are now small countries of their own, or are returned peacefully to their neighbors through negotiation. but they never work.

I should have known, they never ever work, since there is one example where they were trampled over. Not that it would matter either way, since if they were assigned to countries, Hitler invaded those too. But I take your point, they clearly caused WWII. Clearly, an insane German and his followers was not to blame, it was the autonomous zones that did it.

I'm just a Neville Chamberlain. Putin is Hitler. Very good. End of the conversation. Thanks, you really straightened it out for me. It was all so simple the whole time.

Instead, we should just start WWIII now. Off you go. Have fun.



Sorry I seem to have missed my part in the script you are reading from that requires I say never. or that I claim that you are any kind of historical figure. As for Putin or Obama being Hitler I don't recall saying that either. You know you could come off your holier than thou Ivory tower and talk to people, but I guess it's more fun to sneer at us an make criptic statements to make yourself look more learned. I've not see one post from you that didn't mock a belittle and claim some greater wisdom than the rest of us plebes. but hey as you say off you go. have fun.


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papagolfwhiskey wrote:


Sorry I seem to have missed my part in the script you are reading from that requires I say never. or that I claim that you are any kind of historical figure. As for Putin or Obama being Hitler I don't recall saying that either. You know you could come off your holier than thou Ivory tower and talk to people, but I guess it's more fun to sneer at us an make criptic statements to make yourself look more learned. I've not see one post from you that didn't mock a belittle and claim some greater wisdom than the rest of us plebes. but hey as you say off you go. have fun.




Sneering, yes. Neville Chamberlain, who history records as a winging coward, was brought up. I wonder who did that. To make a clear analogy between the current situation and Hitler's lunacy, it doesn't suit.

So, now we are off script. But you were the one who wrote me into one with your false analogy.

But I'm the Ivory Tower sneerer. I'm sorry about that. My high position of actually having an argument probably seems that way. Forgive me for citing the larger scope of history, instead of the narrow one you wanted for your argument. How "Ivory Tower" of me. I must live in a fantasy world subsidized by... uh, I don't know. No one, I suppose.

Ivory tower. Spare me.

I don't claim greater wisdom, you made an analogy and I pointed out, with some sarcasm, that you A) were trying to equate me with Neville Chamberlain, which makes little sense without a Hitler Obama Hitler huh? Obama would be NC, if anything, in this "script".

I, at least, own up to the sarcasm. If it burns a bit, maybe, just maybe, it's sticking because there is something to stick to?

Actually, NC would have probably been recorded as a fine Gentleman, if a bit of a cynical pragmatist, if Hitler hadn't been certifiably insane. His only unforgivable fault in that deal was not recognizing the total lack of logic on the other side. As a political deal, the one he made was sensible and would have benefited almost all parties, if Hitler hadn't been an mad racist idiot with higher functions intact, somehow.

Putin hasn't spent much time invading other countries. He is following an idiotic notion of buffer states, one of which is Ukraine. I don't like him, but I don't think he is bent on world conquest or expansion. I don't see a single piece of evidence for it. To him, the Ukrainians are Russians who don't know it. All he wants is an acceptable government there he can pull enough strings on.

If you back him into a corner, he will fight. It's unwise to treat a badger as a wolf, unless you plan to kill it.

Hopefully Obama is smarter than that, and hopefully Putin is less prickly than he can seem, or at least it won't cloud his thinking as it has in the past. As long as egos don't get in the way, the Ukrainians may actually survive all the "help" they are getting.

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Posted 3/2/14
The Nazis of the Slavic world, are, once again, acting like the Nazis of the Slavic world. Disappointing, but not unexpected.
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21 / SABER
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Posted 3/2/14
its kinda of hard not to say anything offensive in a thing like this
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49 / F / Center of the Uni...
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Posted 3/2/14

crypticcrunch wrote:


papagolfwhiskey wrote:


Sorry I seem to have missed my part in the script you are reading from that requires I say never. or that I claim that you are any kind of historical figure. As for Putin or Obama being Hitler I don't recall saying that either. You know you could come off your holier than thou Ivory tower and talk to people, but I guess it's more fun to sneer at us an make criptic statements to make yourself look more learned. I've not see one post from you that didn't mock a belittle and claim some greater wisdom than the rest of us plebes. but hey as you say off you go. have fun.




Sneering, yes. Neville Chamberlain, who history records as a winging coward, was brought up. I wonder who did that. To make a clear analogy between the current situation and Hitler's lunacy, it doesn't suit.

So, now we are off script. But you were the one who wrote me into one with your false analogy.

But I'm the Ivory Tower sneerer. I'm sorry about that. My high position of actually having an argument probably seems that way. Forgive me for citing the larger scope of history, instead of the narrow one you wanted for your argument. How "Ivory Tower" of me. I must live in a fantasy world subsidized by... uh, I don't know. No one, I suppose.

Ivory tower. Spare me.

I don't claim greater wisdom, you made an analogy and I pointed out, with some sarcasm, that you A) were trying to equate me with Neville Chamberlain, which makes little sense without a Hitler Obama Hitler huh? Obama would be NC, if anything, in this "script".

I, at least, own up to the sarcasm. If it burns a bit, maybe, just maybe, it's sticking because there is something to stick to?

Actually, NC would have probably been recorded as a fine Gentleman, if a bit of a cynical pragmatist, if Hitler hadn't been certifiably insane. His only unforgivable fault in that deal was not recognizing the total lack of logic on the other side. As a political deal, the one he made was sensible and would have benefited almost all parties, if Hitler hadn't been an mad racist idiot with higher functions intact, somehow.

Putin hasn't spent much time invading other countries. He is following an idiotic notion of buffer states, one of which is Ukraine. I don't like him, but I don't think he is bent on world conquest or expansion. I don't see a single piece of evidence for it. To him, the Ukrainians are Russians who don't know it. All he wants is an acceptable government there he can pull enough strings on.

If you back him into a corner, he will fight. It's unwise to treat a badger as a wolf, unless you plan to kill it.

Hopefully Obama is smarter than that, and hopefully Putin is less prickly than he can seem, or at least it won't cloud his thinking as it has in the past. As long as egos don't get in the way, the Ukrainians may actually survive all the "help" they are getting.



Again. more abuse. and putting it all on me over one post. when your every post sounds the same. They stand out with your hipster-esque, superiority and your mocking 'bravo bravo' I'm not talking just this thread or just your one reply to me personally but every post of yours that I've seen.


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Angerudusto wrote:

The Nazis of the Slavic world, are, once again, acting like the Nazis of the Slavic world. Disappointing, but not unexpected.


Uh.. the Nazi's of the slavic world were believe it or not. The Nazis. Invasions from the west colour the slavic view of the world far more painfully than those of the Moscovite Empire.

Posted 3/2/14 , edited 3/2/14

JayVeeDees wrote:


crypticcrunch wrote:

Embarrassing for the west who can't keep their promises of protection they made for getting the UKR nukes disposed of.

I'm sure everyone but the craziest are glad the Ukraine didn't keep their warheads at this moment. Whether they admit it or not.

I would just negotiate a careful surrender of the Crimea, or turn it into an autonomous area... I don't envy Putin or the West, this is a fiasco they have no good way to untangle without loosing face, so they have no way of untangling it without damaging their pathetic political standing. So, in their very small minds, they have no way out.

Hopefully none of the pinheads make it worse.


They didn't 'promise' any kind of help in that treaty, they only said that; if anything were to happen they will have a meeting with the UN and then discuss this and then probably send an angry letter to Russia, but the fact is, Russia has veto power and supplies one third of the gas and oil in EU, so I don't think they would dare to try something fishy.

Lastly, Russia isn't in this for land, they want their bases in Crimea and most of the people in Crimea are pro-Russian anyway, I don't see why the hell all these western countries are trying to involve themselves with this, the Russians have kept to the law when it comes to adding soldiers to protect a base, which it is allowed to because of the revolution, Putin doesn't want a naval base end up in the hands of Extremists (which are the ones that control the revolution at this point) He isn't there to start anything, that's only what the western media wants everyone to think.
If anything happens it was not an act of aggression of Russia, it will be the stupidity of the people who try something against Russia.


America has been provoking Russia for some time now.

It's about time Putin *claps*. They need to secure their bases in Crimea.

http://www.metu.edu.tr/~utuba/Walt%20Bogeymen.pdf
cosham 
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49 / M / Sussex UK
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Posted 3/2/14
The Ukraine is not part of NATO has no treaty with NATO, I would be somewhat more worried if NATO did have a treaty with the Ukraine. Then the risk of another global conflagration would be greatly increased. This will blow over. I hope. ?.
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26 / M / Canada
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Posted 3/2/14
It may be part of Ukraine, but a large Russian population with a significant deployment of Russian military assets there makes Crimea de facto Russian territory. Given that the Ukraine government changed from pursuing Russian-appeasement policies to being anti-Russia literally overnight, I'm not at all surprised Putin is doing what he's doing. If the West was concerned about the growing Russian influence in Ukraine, they should have acted years ago instead of waiting for it to hit the boiling point like it did recently.

I don't say this lightly, but unless there's new developments I don't consider this to be an act of aggression on Russia's part. If there is a military deployment by the west in Ukraine (or god forbid Crimea) then that would categorically be an act of aggression.
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28 / M / wherever my work...
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Posted 3/2/14
Apocalypse, Here we come!
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