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Why S.A.O. was B.A.D. and you should still watch G.G.O. (with pictures)
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Posted 3/12/14

sonic720 wrote:


I could say the same thing of Shiroe from Log Horizon, but I don't believe either he or Kirito is as simple as you make him out to be. Both are conflicted characters who prefer solo play, but that does not mean they are loners in the truest sense of the word. They both like people, but cannot necessarily trust people. Nor does everyone like them.

Kirito has enemies as does Shiroe because people are envious of their abilities. Kirito has family reasons why he does not readily trust others, in addition to being singled out as a beater and his negative guild experience. He has to mask his level and identity as a beater to keep from being targeted, just as Shiroe has to act behind the scenes to avoid his enemies who view him as the "villain in the glasses." Shiroe also has many ladies who want him without much reason why explained to the audience. So if Kirito is a self-insertion fantasy character, then so also is Shiroe; and most any other character in anime with women who fawn over them without clear motives for that matter.


I'd argue they're pretty dissimilar, and the reasons people dislike the characters (ingame) are fairly different.

Kirito is a loner who likes being a loner and is awesome on his own. Everything is driven by his awesomeness.

Shiroe, on the other hand, doesn't particularly want to be a loner, but his social problems and cripplingly low self-esteem get him into trouble.

To my mind, one is a loner because he's just too amazing, the other is a loner because of identifiable, relatable personality flaws. It's a world of difference.

The hate is different too, Kirito's 'hate' (which appears slightly in early episodes and then almost entirely dissappears) has to do with his ego and his jerkish persona. It is relatable, because we all have met gamers like that, but it's not something that he really gets over either. He's just so totally amazing that people have to admit he's right to be elitist. He's simply the best (again to the point that he's actually annointed by God with special powers and God has to cheat in order to avoid being beaten by him).

Shiroe, in comparison, is hated because he's so goddamn awkward and because he does always act in the shadows (which I'd argue again is based on his low self-esteem). It's a reasonable if unfortunate response from people. It doesn't help that he's also willing to do some pretty scary things in order to meet his goals.

~~~

Which hits the point of characterization complaints. With Kirito, even his flaws are just vectors of the power-fantasy, just like his good deeds always have the advantage of making him look really good.

In the Log Horizon comparison, you have a character who has flaws you can see hurting him in the game world, and even the greatest of his good deeds often end up not helping him very much.
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Posted 3/12/14 , edited 3/12/14

windsagio wrote:



I guess we will have to agree to disagree here because I see Kirito's character in a very different light than you see him. I never got the impression he thought he was awesome; just the opposite, actually. He beats himself up for his sin of abandoning the new players in their time of need when he could have helped them instead of improve himself. He atones for that somewhat by taking on the role of beater at the end of the first boss fight to cover for the other beta testers who might be singled out as well.

He sacrificed his own reputation in that world to save those around him, but in the process made his ability to work in the open very difficult. I saw it as him using games as an escape from reality; from dealing with his own demons. Kirito put up this facade to others that he was strong. Had a bad day? Don't talk about it, go level up. Worried about trusting someone else? Forget them, go level up. He dealt with his problems by leveling up, and if you combine that with his natural talent for reacting quickly, then you get someone that looks strong on the outside but is really broken on the inside. I believe he and Shiroe have a lot more in common than you think. Both ran from their issues and had a time where they resolved to change.
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Posted 3/12/14
The thing about anything that's popular is everyone jumps on the hate wagon. I personally love SAO, so I don't agree with the hate. One Piece is a great example. One of the most popular anime series and the reason it's lasted so long and will continue to is it's well developed. But it's popular so a lot of hate is targeted towards it.
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Posted 3/12/14 , edited 3/12/14

Mauno wrote:


Des85 wrote:

I liked SAO, all of it.
I haven't managed to finish the other half, because it was sooooo boring and stupid.



The first arc of the anime was honestly great, it had its share of problems (logic and pacing, maybe?).

It was the Alfheim arc that was just so horrible that it made people think so bad of the whole series. Suddenly elves, silly imouto romance and constant cleavage zooming. Not to mention that the final boss fight was just... either really ridiculous or just plain bad. Alfheim felt like a parody of the first arc.

Also, wtf is G.G.O? I like how people abbreaviate things even before they're released.

The hate started long before the ALO arc; the two-year time-skip and episodes 3-8 shook a lot of people loose. There was a lot of griping over "I thought this was a death game", "What are all these stories about all these random girls", "Why isn't anything happening", "Why did they skip so much time", "What is this some kind of freaking dating sim?" and so on. ALO just delivered more buckets of nails to the coffin-maker by really going to town.

Kirito was supposed to be a loner, but he wasn't alone for any reason except for the fact that he wanted to be. But the anime tried to paint it like he was some sort of tragic anti-hero, when really he just didn't like hanging out with crowds (I can relate; strongly). He also never suffers for being a Beater, two years down the road nobody even knows who he is. It was just his tragically cool "Because he's the hero Aincrad deserves, but not the one it needs right now" moment.

After Sachi he avoids people because he doesn't want to see them die, which is a more relatable issue. But that still came 6-7 months after the anime had conclusively proved he just didn't like hanging out with people, period.

Kirito gave up nothing by becoming a Beater, if anything it let him simply justify his own reclusiveness.

He's actually a bit of a tsundere, although if you think about him in that light he instantly becomes an unlikable idiot.


I'm in a predicament because I largely enjoyed SAO; I've rewatched much of it (particularly from the first arc), I really like Asuna (even though she's blatant nadeshiko material with just enough tsun to be sexy), and I've gotten used to the slice-of-life/dating-sim thing they went for because it did give me an enjoyable experience, even though it wasn't the one I was expecting. I'm also a sucker for fairy tale romances, so I thought Kirito×Asuna was quite beautiful.

But I really can't say SAO wasn't shit, despite being enjoyable shit. It's enjoyable because it's a bad story, it's an overpowered self-insert Gary Stu character who's a cool dark loner while simultaneously getting all the chicks. It strokes the viewers' ego and worms its way into their good graces, so it doesn't surprise me at all that some people respond to it with incredible violence. Every character, trope, and event is designed to fuel the self-insert hero fantasy.

But it was still fun, so we're back to the age-old question of "can it be bad if it was still entertaining" and "is being entertaining the only thing that matters when deciding if its good". SAO is like a dose of morphine, basically.

Anyway, I'll be happy to get high off GGO this year. Because it's fun, even if it is grossly irresponsible.

(Don't do drugs kids).



windsagio wrote:

He's supposed to be a loner who learns to work with others, but all the other folks like him from the start, especially the ladies (which matches, he's nothing if not a self-insertion fantasy).

Hehe, insertion... sex joke.
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Posted 3/12/14

Insomnist wrote:

(Don't do drugs kids).


Nailed it.
Posted 3/12/14

stoner789 wrote:


Giotto_Tsuna wrote:

I like SAO, but I dislike the ALO Arc especially Sugou molesting Asuna


she didn't exactly get molested but almost, thank god kirito was there right?


I know right? Thank god he was there to watch it happen right in front of his eyes, I'm pretty sure he wouldn't want to miss out on it.
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23 / M / Free World Jail
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Posted 3/12/14
I'm definitely gonna OD on GGO this year.
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Posted 3/12/14 , edited 3/12/14

Insomnist wrote:




A pretty eloquent analogy in my opinion. I'd add that the drug induced haze was magnified in my case by marathoning the episodes instead of parcelling them out week by week. The sudden end of the Aincrad arc and subsequent shark jumping sobered me up in a hurry and through the entire ALO arc, I'll admit, I raged like an addict in withdrawal. After a while I made peace with SAO, but I understand both those who never sobered up and those who are still raging. I don't understand the people who hated it from the beginning, but I've learned not underestimate how much some people hate fun.
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Posted 3/12/14

KiteCross wrote:


stoner789 wrote:


Giotto_Tsuna wrote:

I like SAO, but I dislike the ALO Arc especially Sugou molesting Asuna


she didn't exactly get molested but almost, thank god kirito was there right?


I know right? Thank god he was there to watch it happen right in front of his eyes, I'm pretty sure he wouldn't want to miss out on it.


lol the f*** way to twist it
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Posted 3/12/14 , edited 3/12/14

KiteCross wrote:

I know right? Thank god he was there to watch it happen right in front of his eyes, I'm pretty sure he wouldn't want to miss out on it.

Some quality NTR right there.


Well_Spoken_Man wrote:

A pretty eloquent analogy in my opinion. I'd add that the drug induced haze was magnified in my case by marathoning the episodes instead of parcelling them out week by week. The sudden end of the Aincrad arc and subsequent shark jumping sobered me up in a hurry and through the entire ALO arc, I'll admit, I raged like an addict in withdrawal. After a while I made peace with SAO, but I understand both those who never sobered up and those who are still raging. I don't understand the people who hated it from the beginning, but I've learned not underestimate how much some people hate fun.

Man, I was watching it weekly. Episode 14: "So they're going to live happily ever after now, right?"

...

WHAT THE ____ IS THIS?! WHO CUT MY SAO WITH NETORARE?!

And thus I was enraged for the next three straight months until they finally beat the shit out of Sugou.
Posted 3/12/14 , edited 3/12/14
Another SAO thread about why it "sucked"? Are we seriously still having this discussion? I almost wish SAO didn't have a third season just so I can stop hearing about it.
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Posted 3/12/14
I'm really looking forward to ggo now!
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24 / M / Queens, New York...
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Posted 3/12/14
This is how you know an anime was so good it is awesome, so good it was bad, or so bad it was good. [Personally I liked SOA]. But, if an anime that was released like a year ago (if not two by now. .) is 'STILL' getting people to talk about it (Especially people in a different country then japan), then quite frankly. . It's done a good job.
xxJing 
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30 / M / Duckburg
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Posted 3/12/14
Here is my SAO experience.

I watch episode 1 : Oh, this looks like it is going to be great. I can't wait for episode 2.
I read 1st Light Novel : Well that was decent but quite underwhelming.
I watch the rest of the series : Not bad, but definitely could have been better. 7/10.
I go on the internet to post my opinion :
Me: Well guys, I think SAO was pretty good for what it ....
Internet : ZOMG! That was the bestest anime ever!!! The love story between Asuna nd Kirto was so beautiful!!! I want to have sex with my monitor right now!
Me:... let the trolling begin.
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Posted 3/12/14 , edited 3/12/14
I only want it to have a third season so that it can have a fourth season. Alicization would be a pretty sweet anime arc.

I read the Light Novels before the ALO portion of SAO had even aired, so having watched it with tempered expectations I really didn't mind it at all at the time, and I truly believe that it was a better story than GGO. And now since everyone is acting like GGO will be some great savior for the franchise I am seriously concerned that we're going to have another hate fest plastering topic after topic on here after it comes out and doesn't meet expectations.
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