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Why S.A.O. was B.A.D. and you should still watch G.G.O. (with pictures)
Posted 3/12/14

sonic720 wrote:


windsagio wrote:



I guess we will have to agree to disagree here because I see Kirito's character in a very different light than you see him. I never got the impression he thought he was awesome; just the opposite, actually. He beats himself up for his sin of abandoning the new players in their time of need when he could have helped them instead of improve himself. He atones for that somewhat by taking on the role of beater at the end of the first boss fight to cover for the other beta testers who might be singled out as well.

He sacrificed his own reputation in that world to save those around him, but in the process made his ability to work in the open very difficult. I saw it as him using games as an escape from reality; from dealing with his own demons. Kirito put up this facade to others that he was strong. Had a bad day? Don't talk about it, go level up. Worried about trusting someone else? Forget them, go level up. He dealt with his problems by leveling up, and if you combine that with his natural talent for reacting quickly, then you get someone that looks strong on the outside but is really broken on the inside. I believe he and Shiroe have a lot more in common than you think. Both ran from their issues and had a time where they resolved to change.



True but at the same time their approach to solving their problems tend to be completely different where as Kirito just relies heavily on brute force and mechanics outside of the game. Shiroe operates on logic and observation, he knows how to coordinate his attacks with his party members creating a good synergy between them and providing support when needed (excluding healing). Not to mention the class that he plays with is not ideal for soloing and that's the way how he likes it.

It's funny that you say all the ladies fawn over Shiroe because from what I've seen so far the person who is receiving most of the fawning is Soujirou Seta from the West Wind Brigade. There are only three girls that like Shiroe so far Akatsuki, Minori, and Nureha.
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Posted 3/12/14

Jinatious wrote:

This is how you know an anime was so good it is awesome, so good it was bad, or so bad it was good. [Personally I liked SOA]. But, if an anime that was released like a year ago (if not two by now. .) is 'STILL' getting people to talk about it (Especially people in a different country then japan), then quite frankly. . It's done a good job.


It's representative. It was the huge blow-up success because the show does a really good job appealing to certain elements of our natures. Peoples reasons are all over the place, but I think the reason that it sticks around as a subject of discussion is because of that specific appeal.

The fantasy-fulfillment/hormone-tugging gets people greatly emotionally involved one way or another, it's visceral and instinctive.


xxJing wrote:

Here is my SAO experience.

I watch episode 1 : Oh, this looks like it is going to be great. I can't wait for episode 2.
I read 1st Light Novel : Well that was decent but quite underwhelming.
I watch the rest of the series : Not bad, but definitely could have been better. 7/10.
I go on the internet to post my opinion :
Me: Well guys, I think SAO was pretty good for what it ....
Internet : ZOMG! That was the bestest anime ever!!! The love story between Asuna nd Kirto was so beautiful!!! I want to have sex with my monitor right now!
Me:... let the trolling begin.


That's the fantasy element again. Even if I think Asuna is a terrible character from a narrative and messaging POV, I sure as hell would want to date her.

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Posted 3/12/14

Insomnist wrote:
He also never suffers for being a Beater, two years down the road nobody even knows who he is. It was just his tragically cool "Because he's the hero Aincrad deserves, but not the one it needs right now" moment.

After Sachi he avoids people because he doesn't want to see them die, which is a more relatable issue. But that still came 6-7 months after the anime had conclusively proved he just didn't like hanging out with people, period.

Kirito gave up nothing by becoming a Beater, if anything it let him simply justify his own reclusiveness.


Wait, to say no one even knows who he is after 2 years is a bit of an exaggeration, don't you think? People have heard about the black swordsman and beaters, so he probably does not want to advertise himself much. He's hiding his true identity by avoiding people, and that is a form of mental suffering I think. Doesn't Sachi and MBC also suffer because Kirito is hiding being a beater from them? Is he not called out as a "no good beater not worthy of Asuna" by her body guard, Kuradeel, thus setting in motion his eventual retreat with her? I agree him being a beater let him justify his own reclusiveness, but disagree that it is not relevant beyond that first boss fight.

Also, when did the anime conclusively prove "he just didn't like hanging out with people?" He met Klein and helped him, then offered to party up with him. He met Asuna before the boss fight and formed a party with her. He had a heart to heart with a fallen Diavel and, per his wishes, deflected blame from other beta testers onto himself as the worst kind of player. His friends knew what he did for them and never held that against him, but Kibaou led a witch hunt to ensure he'd rise to power by blaming the beta testers and cheaters. The beater stigma became real because the ignorant are easily swayed by rhetoric that tells them, "it is all their fault we are lacking."

I'd argue Kirito enjoyed hanging out with people, those he could trust at least, but the circumstances forced him into a position where he chose self preservation over cooperation; something he would come to regret and would overcome with Asuna's help. Once he made the choice to be selfish, he decided to avoid others out of his self loathing and fear of being outed as a beater. He did not hate hanging with others, he hated himself for not helping others when he had the chance, and that self hate led to self isolation. Asuna was the first one to reach him in that state of mind before the first boss fight and planted the seed for him to grow out of that negative way of thinking. That's why he loves her because she reached out to him before he could accept himself flaws and all.
xxJing 
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Posted 3/12/14

windsagio wrote:



xxJing wrote:

Here is my SAO experience.

I watch episode 1 : Oh, this looks like it is going to be great. I can't wait for episode 2.
I read 1st Light Novel : Well that was decent but quite underwhelming.
I watch the rest of the series : Not bad, but definitely could have been better. 7/10.
I go on the internet to post my opinion :
Me: Well guys, I think SAO was pretty good for what it ....
Internet : ZOMG! That was the bestest anime ever!!! The love story between Asuna nd Kirto was so beautiful!!! I want to have sex with my monitor right now!
Me:... let the trolling begin.


That's the fantasy element again. Even if I think Asuna is a terrible character from a narrative and messaging POV, I sure as hell would want to date her.



My point was, I watched the series in seclusion, I gave it an opinion without being influenced by haters or fan boys, it was an alright series. However, for some reason the internet seemed to start treating it like it was the messiah of anime, like it was the harbinger of a new golden age. Thus my moderate voice was silenced by the screams of the haters and the fan boys. And I swore to my father, who was trampled to death by a horde of raging fanboys, that I would never become a fanboy. Thus I let the hate flow through me, and I became a sith.
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Posted 3/12/14
^I'm the same way lmao...
The hate...it is too strong. It fuels me.
Posted 3/12/14
For all the nerds like me out there, you've gotta agree that the anime wasn't as good as it could have been. I loved the light novels and was truly ecstatic to hear about the anime, but I didn't get the same sense of the story that was portrayed in the novel. The anime followed the light novels, but never really came too close... It wasn't until a few episodes later that the story actually met with the first novel (I loved this part, but my friends hated it). Another thing is some of the main themes of the novels were given little attention to, like dehumanization and true reality. Those two themes dovetailed with the many other themes in the novels were what made the story truly satisfying. However, I'm totally okay with what they did since, y'know, animating takes a lot of work, so you might as well add stuff for the fans... I mean, what better way to make money than to create a protagonist that's too badass, an over-exaggerated harem, and not to mention the infamous near-rape scene (Abenomics, eh?).

All in all, I overly enjoyed the series, and I still re-watch it all the time. Definitely going to watch and buy more of Kawahara-sensei's work.
Which reminds me... I bought the limited ed. box sets but never used them lol. I downloaded the episodes before I bought them, so I never really had the need to open anything other than the CDs lol.
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Posted 3/12/14

sonic720 wrote:


Insomnist wrote:
He also never suffers for being a Beater, two years down the road nobody even knows who he is. It was just his tragically cool "Because he's the hero Aincrad deserves, but not the one it needs right now" moment.

After Sachi he avoids people because he doesn't want to see them die, which is a more relatable issue. But that still came 6-7 months after the anime had conclusively proved he just didn't like hanging out with people, period.

Kirito gave up nothing by becoming a Beater, if anything it let him simply justify his own reclusiveness.


Wait, to say no one even knows who he is after 2 years is a bit of an exaggeration, don't you think? People have heard about the black swordsman and beaters, so he probably does not want to advertise himself much. He's hiding his true identity by avoiding people, and that is a form of mental suffering I think. Doesn't Sachi and MBC also suffer because Kirito is hiding being a beater from them? Is he not called out as a "no good beater not worthy of Asuna" by her body guard, Kuradeel, thus setting in motion his eventual retreat with her? I agree him being a beater let him justify his own reclusiveness, but disagree that it is not relevant beyond that first boss fight.

Also, when did the anime conclusively prove "he just didn't like hanging out with people?" He met Klein and helped him, then offered to party up with him. He met Asuna before the boss fight and formed a party with her. He had a heart to heart with a fallen Diavel and, per his wishes, deflected blame from other beta testers onto himself as the worst kind of player. His friends knew what he did for them and never held that against him, but Kibaou led a witch hunt to ensure he'd rise to power by blaming the beta testers and cheaters. The beater stigma became real because the ignorant are easily swayed by rhetoric that tells them, "it is all their fault we are lacking."

I'd argue Kirito enjoyed hanging out with people, those he could trust at least, but the circumstances forced him into a position where he chose self preservation over cooperation; something he would come to regret and would overcome with Asuna's help. Once he made the choice to be selfish, he decided to avoid others out of his self loathing and fear of being outed as a beater. He did not hate hanging with others, he hated himself for not helping others when he had the chance, and that self hate led to self isolation. Asuna was the first one to reach him in that state of mind before the first boss fight and planted the seed for him to grow out of that negative way of thinking. That's why he loves her because she reached out to him before he could accept himself flaws and all.

I disagree with you about... everything...

But I'd honestly flip a table before getting into another one of these SAO debates, so I'll just apologize for accidentally flagging myself for one and leave it at that. If I can think of a simple way to explain it later though I will.
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Posted 3/12/14
The hate and arguments based around SAO make me laugh. At the end of the day, I watched SAO I loved it. Some people didn't love it. I hate marmite, others love it, should I make a song and dance? No.

Just let people enjoy a show without the pressure of having to conform to everyone else's opinions. You should watch GGO if you enjoyed SAO or just because you want to! Bascially, don't take a show too seriously
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Posted 3/12/14
The thing about SAO is Kirito was such a cliche and uninteresting character. Really, his whole personality has been done 100x over in almost every harem show. The otaku white knight that overcomes every problem through his plot armor and not really using any intelligence or skill. I'm not saying SAO is a harem, but the fact that all these girls fall for him was just shocking.

First season's villain was actually a really great character. Sugou, on the other hand, was one of the worst created antagonists I personally have ever seen.
"Sugou is introduced, we find out he's a creepy pervert. Okay. He's evil.
Sugou is shown as Oberron, creepy lecherous face shown. Really Evil.
Sugou is keeping other SAO players hostage. Not just rape-evil, but also brainwashing evil as well? This is getting annoying...
Sugou has aspirations of being a god? Of course. Not like we've seen that over a thousand times in a thousand other villains....
Sugou attempts to rape Asuna in front of Kirito? Mother of God, we get it already, he's evil!
Sugou, in the middle of raping Asuna, STOPS TO LICK HER FUCKING TEARS. <Insert sound of my head exploding>

Look.
People like Aizen from Bleach are the boring kind of evil. Overpowered, deific, and without any depth or complexity. What Sugou has done is become a Villain SO one-dimensional, SO disgusting, SO pathetic, SO....... Stupid...... "
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Posted 3/12/14

Halebek wrote:

I'm not saying SAO is a harem, but the fact that all these girls fall for him was just shocking.

It actually is, so you wouldn't be wrong in saying so.
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Posted 3/12/14 , edited 3/12/14

Insomnist wrote:


But I'd honestly flip a table before getting into another one of these SAO debates, so I'll just apologize for accidentally flagging myself for one and leave it at that. If I can think of a simple way to explain it later though I will.


C'mon now, SAO debates are fun. People aren't even getting that worked up about it :D

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"Year-end cleanup. Closing threads with no activity since 2014."
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