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Third hokage using all elements
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24 / M / united states oregon
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Posted 3/15/14
Remember when the statue madara summoned , was attacking with all the elements and the third hokage summoned 4 clones , so he could use ALL elements at the same time....WHOA WHOA WHOA , that is VERY impressive , like demi god status among ninja to me .....i know he has been called the god of shinobi but , i always thought it was exaggerating a lot...even tho he is a great ninja , but anywhore , i just dont buy it because , if he REALLY knew all the elements , i think we would have heard about it by now a LONG time ago , like in the original " naruto" series.
And again , it is very impressive , and that might be a understatement because knowing all the elements is something that is like nearly impossible as stated by kakashi once , unless you have a kenkai genkai or something , and not ONLY did he use all elements , he used all of them at a MASTER level , i do not think even as old as he is....he has lived long enough to MASTER ALL the elements and use them all AT THE SAME TIME..that sounds to difficult .

So yea...i think when he wrote this , he forgot his own lore for a moment and gave him all elements on accident and it should NEVER have been done because its nearly impossible ( especially since it was never mentioned in the MANY MANY times people would talk about how amazing the third was ).

Lastly , i think the third SHOULD have learned all the elements , it seems fitting so he could earn the title " god of shinobi" a little , but the way its been done , its just not believable and should have been written better.

So whats your opinions on this? ^_^
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Posted 3/15/14
I think you are looking for consistency in a show where a person made a moon. He created a moon.
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Posted 3/15/14
what are you talking about? since when has the third been called that and the third has not used all the elements. what chapter was this
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Posted 3/15/14
madaara is an uchia god

and minato is a God too but dont know what to classify him
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24 / M / united states oregon
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Posted 3/15/14

badmartialarts wrote:

I think you are looking for consistency in a show where a person made a moon. He created a moon.


I am a man who LOVES fantasy , but also loves rules to be followed and i hate it when things dont make sense. In the world naruto , they have different rules in it than the real world , some things are possible , some aren't and i just want it to follow its own rules , which do allow a moon to be created by what is almost or is a demi god , sage of the 6 paths.

" what are you talking about? since when has the third been called that and the third has not used all the elements. what chapter was this"

Even before shippuden he has been nicknamed the " god of shinobi " and a quick google search of it and you will find it on first page , like this link here http://narutobase.net/forums/showthread.php?t=153230
And he used all elements on chapter 662 , check it out = ) .


drbock 
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Posted 3/16/14 , edited 3/16/14
In chapter...120 Orochimaru says that Third can use every technique known in Konoha and that make Third "The Professor". So probably through all time he lived he was able to master all elements.

But I feel that back then in Naruto's lore learning multiple elements techniques wasn't so unusual and Kishimoto decided it would be very special much later. Kakashi was shown using Earth, Water and Lighting, but during fight against Haku and Zabuza he said that he can't copy Haku's Hyōton beacause it is kekkei genkai - suggesting that Kakashi can use ALL basic elements.

Right now Third knowing all elements to this level feels exaggerated especially remembering Kakuzu or Nagato. Still it can be said that Kakuzu was too impatient to learn them normally and Hiruzen could learn all of this by talent and hard work using all the time he lived.
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Posted 3/16/14
Yea , i remember that. But that is only counting the konoha exclusives jutsu , not all jutsu in the world , so its possible not every element is adopted in konoha specialty, i think its a lot of fire and neutral jutsu such as substitution , transformation maybe and the shadow clone , all those are not element specific.....i guess that means he can use all the jutsu from shikamaru , ino and even choji! thats cool and none of them are element specific.

Also , i dont think kakashi needs to have a affinity with a element to copy a jutsu , i THINK , not sure but , pretty sure. Just because kakashi cant copy a kenkai genkai doesnt mean its because of its element specifically , it can just mean the jutsu its self cane be copied. for example a fire jutsu , could STILL be a kenkai genkai , like maybe amateratsu .
and that would mean , he doesnt have all the elements , he can copy a jutsu and use it for ever to if i am correct. btw if he cant use them for ever , and you have proof please show.

Yea we agree there for the most part. And btw , i respected your opinions/theory's , they made me think and i almost agreed , but on the last second , i gave it another round of thinking.

drbock 
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Posted 3/16/14
The problem is how "Every technique know in Konoha" is defined. Primary, it seems that secret clan-specific techniques are out. Since "using all elements is unthinkable" came out I decided that what Orochimaru ment back then was Konoha-specific techniques meaning mostly elementaly-neutral or fire-based - the same as you wrote.

Btw does it mean Third can use Rasengan, Flying Thunder God Jutsu and Edo Tensei as well? O_O

However even if Konoha is in Fire Country, users of various elements resides there, so "every technique known in Konoha" could refer to techniques of various elements as well. Why would Konoha ninjas wouldn't be able to create new jutsus from other elements?

To completely copy (meaning you can perform it) a technique requires having capability of using it. As it was told that sharingan itself wasn't enough for Sasuke to copy Lee's taijutsu style - he needed physical capability as well. Basing on this - if Kakashi had Hyōton user's cells implanted so he could use Ice Style, he should be able to copy Demonic Ice Mirrors. I believe that Kakashi (or any sharingan user) needs to be able to use jutsu's element (well enough) to fully copy it - meaning he/she can perform observed technique.

Having a natural affinity is not needed for every elemental technique, but learning to use at all an element that isn't your natural affinity requires much more training (if I understand well) - this is supposed to make it very hard for one person to be able to use (and master) multiple elements, but I doesn't make it impossible with enough time, I think. Still it was told that you need to have natural affinity to use most powerful (or at least to get best of them) techniques of one element.
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24 / M / united states oregon
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Posted 3/16/14 , edited 3/16/14
See , konoha( village ) jutsu , are really old jutsu , passed down by generations , tho konoha is still a little young i think , but , still kinda old....but anyways , these jutsu are the main focus to be passed down and taught and are kept in the forbidden scroll that naruto stole in episode one , any jutsu in there , is konoha jutsu. and rasengan is NOT in there , it was invented recently by minato and further more was not actually complete , it was still in beta so the third will not know rasengan unless minato taught him.
Edo tensei tho , that is a interesting one....second hokage invented it , but he seemed to really look down on it like most people and probably kept it a secret as much as possible and didnt pass it down. He also made the flying thunder god , but it looks very difficult to learn so its hard to say if he even bothered to pass it down much , he might have tho....hard to say.

HMM interesting point....the things you mention seem pretty direct to the actual physical body , and the affinity , master over elements might not really be part of the body , because if you remember when kakashi and sakura taught how to use jutsu , its half of the body's energy and minds energy , which is more like the experience of the user and mental state. so i think the elemental affinity derives from the minds energy , unlike taijutsu and a BLOOD line jutsu , in which case the jutsu its self is encoded into there body physically ( also again , difference of elements and the jutsu its self ) .
In my theory , most jutsu ( all but blood line ) are encoded into the dna from birth , and you can only use those jutsu , but still need to learn them , that explains how they pass down blood lines to there child. and how people can put the DNA of the first hokage into them and suddenly be able to learn the jutsu.

Lastly , kakashi is to young to master all the elements....MAYBE third hokage , but no way kakashi , he gets a lot of praise for his skill , but that much skill at that age , he should be called a prodigy or legend , not just a elite. So if he doesnt have all elements , that would mean , sharingan gives jutsu to the user for ever.
oh wait , dont forget , in episode 75 , when naruto was eating ramen , about to go train with kakashi , kakashi then soon after used a rasengan he copied from minato , that proves he keeps jutsu for ever.
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