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What makes a Fight Good in Anime?
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Posted 3/22/14

EmpReb wrote:

Edit: the Guy above is right plot wise...... but mechanics I am talking how to get people to beleave the shit happening if you don't full on into the Rule OF Cool territory of anime fights. Really full out disregard for physics......the huge leap, jumps and mid air movement in shows that does not imply superhumans, or powers or something to make me believe its just animation ignoring the rules of gravity.... AGAIN


You've reminded me of "The Incredible Hulk" just now.

The previous Hulk movie featured a lime-green Hulk, who weightlessly flew through the air and fought imaginary wolves. It was poorly received. During the remake, they focused on giving a weight to the character. The Hulk ruined the grown as he walks, he's lugging around all this weight and things she slams into just shatter. It makes his jumps and attack really powerful to watch.

Naruto falls into the previous movie a lot, Animation wise. If you've ever seen the infamous "Jumping through trees" animation cycle, it feels like that. Sure they're all Ninja's, but they're ignoring the rules of physics by hilariously jumping around. At least Dragonball Z had them fly, here they just float through trees.

The fights from Hajime no Ippo however, they've got some heft to them. Look at those punches! They can hurt you just by looking at them!

I find Studio Madhouse consistently good with their fight choreography

A lot of the early Gundams had great choreography as well, causing them to age just that much better than other shows from the 80's.
Fist of the North Star's fights were exaggerated nonsense half the time, relying on more re-used cells than anybody could get away with. But the plot battles had huge weight to them, as it was the end of the world! Death was more common than water! Everybody wanted to rule, and gave up anything they could for that power.
Posted 3/22/14
as long as they don't explain themselves to the opponent, i actually enjoy fight scenes.
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Posted 3/22/14 , edited 3/22/14

Felstalker wrote:

In addition to what was said previously, I'll put in Weight.

The showdown between Guts and Griffith during Berserk is a short one, spanning like, 9 seconds.
But it's a critical point in the story of Berserk, perhaps my favorite moment as a whole. Without this fight, the following events could seem out of character.


Strangely enough, I was hoping you meant "weight" as in physics.
Usually in an anime fight, the characters are lighter than air and their hits have little impact (or the other character is hardly hurt despite losing a gallon of blood.. or has no problem punching someone with a broken arm.)

Hesitation is also terrible. If an action is slowed down a bit so viewers could see it, that makes sense. Dragging out actions or leaving long pauses is just the animation company being lazy or filling air time. It's not meant for you to enjoy the scene more.

Also, unless a character is supposed to be savagely beaten by an overpowered opponent, it should seem difficult for either character to win. Not the fake difficult where they struggle and miraculously win. It should be difficult for both the protagonist and the antagonist, so that winning is an accomplishment and not a super power.

A protagonist vs antagonist fight should not be a deciding factor for anything.
At worst, it should be a plot device or should be part of an already finished conclusion (like Spike's fight with Vicious in Cowboy Bebop.) The audience should never be expected to say "I wonder if the protagonist will lose," because they usually don't. As such, whether they win or lose shouldn't be important in a fight. Monumental examples of a protagonist LOSING usually occurs during such fight scenes where the conclusion is unimportant. Is it emphasized that Mami should win? No. What's emphasized is the plot that is supposed to occur after the unimportant fight scene.

And it should never take longer than it has to.

Unfortunately, most fights in anime go like this:
"So ultimate big bad guy or villain of the week shows up, and the protagonist is like 'I can beat you even though you're canonically far stronger than me. Why!? Because, the gods of Deus Ex Machina made me stronger than ever and I can survive anything you hurt me with and ignore my broken bones and injuries thanks to friendship!! (or some super power or ultimate MacGuffin!!)'"

One of my favorite fight scenes is:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-HOAuiY5XFQ
Is beating up the Suruga Monkey an important goal? No. He's just trying to get through to her. The fight is just an attachment.
Does Araragi Deus Ex Machina during the fight? No. That happens later..
Is there weight to the characters? Yes.
Does Araragi struggle? Absolutely.
Does getting injured handicap one of the characters? Obviously. It turns the whole fight around.
Does Araragi, a character that isn't supernaturally built like a tank, crack walls and bend polls that hit him? No.
Does the fight take a long time? Not at all.

Is it a good fight scene? Yes.


Felstalker wrote:

A lot of the early Gundams had great choreography as well, causing them to age just that much better than other shows from the 80's.


While not necessarily limited to being different than the rather silly over-the-top fights of 80s anime, The battle between Monsha and Kou in episode 3 of Gundam 0083: Stardust Memory is surprisingly good as well.
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Posted 3/22/14 , edited 3/22/14
I love fight scenes where the characters don't spend an episode monologuing only to do one attack. If anyone has seen the last fight in Sword of the Stranger, now THAT was a fight done well. I also think a good fight should give all the characters in question fighting each other a challenge.

I hate when a character gets beaten to crap only to rise up and do a super overkill one hit kill attack. I don't mind a one sided beatdown if it's to showcase the strength of the villain and how the MC will have to grow to beat them, but last minute comebacks with one outlandish attack after they've received a beatdown kind of annoy me.

Next, show damage. It's kind of silly when a character get punched right into a building and then gets out of it with only a few scratches. Sure they might be strong, but their opponent is usually just as strong, so their punches or attacks would do more damage than leave a few scratches. The two would cancel each other out in terms of one guys body resistance, versus the strength of his enemy's attack, and would essentially be the same as one of us receiving a normal punch to the face.

Emotion: Facial expressions and all that are nice to show the determination, rage, or confidence of those fighting. It can really add depth to a fight.

Next up is the soundtrack and sound design. Now sure, I won't lie that a great soundtrack can make a fight even better, but have you ever realised how impactful a fight can be when their is literally no music? I find it can add drama if the two characters are on their last legs, the music cuts off and there's nothing but the sound of their grunts, their breathlessness and attacking each other.

Also, if you really want your opponent dead, don't wait until the last possible minute to do your strongest attack. It always annoys me when you might even see a character have a big fight with someone, win, and then when they think they've won they get stabbed right through the back and out the chest with an energy blade or something, after they've just withstood a 5-10 minute long fight. Sure that can add a shock factor but still.

Also, I like it when the character deaths mean something, and when you can tell they're finally dead. I've stopped caring about characters dying in anime, because we see them brought back to life so much, and it removes all the impact and the point of that character dying if you do. Sure it's sad to see a liked character killed off, but bringing them back happens so much that it kind of feels like it's forced these days.

Finally, the POWER OF FRIENDSHIP also annoys me. Just because you have something worth protecting doesn't strike me as a valid reason to receive a massive power boost. It might be motivation, but it wouldn't affect your power level in any way. If anything, it's taught me that maybe if villains had more friends they'd win more.

Here are some fights I enjoyed:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rR1cMPnMcaY (The all too fantastic Sword of the Stranger fight and my absolute favourite)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-HOAuiY5XFQ (Koyomi vs Araragi in Bakemonogatari albeit more of a beatdown to showcase the strength of the demon in question)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y41FCMkOFnQ (Spike Spiegel vs Vincent Volaju from the end of Cowboy Bebop Knockin' on Heaven's Door, also some fantastic choreography)


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Posted 3/22/14 , edited 3/22/14

BLACKOUTMK2 wrote:
Finally, the POWER OF FRIENDSHIP also annoys me. Just because you have something worth protecting doesn't strike me as a valid reason to receive a massive power boost. If anything, it's taught me that maybe if villains had more friends they'd win more.


Reminds me of Robot Girls Z where the villains are certainly a large group of friends, but they get trumped by the cold heartless Mazinger girls because they're not the protagonists XD.


BLACKOUTMK2 wrote:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-HOAuiY5XFQ (Koyomi vs Araragi in Bakemonogatari albeit more of a beatdown to showcase the strength of the demon in question)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y41FCMkOFnQ (Spike Spiegel vs Vincent Volaju from the end of Cowboy Bebop Knockin' on Heaven's Door, also some fantastic choreography)


I've been repeated -.-
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Posted 3/22/14 , edited 3/22/14

BLACKOUTMK2 wrote:



Finally, the POWER OF FRIENDSHIP also annoys me. Just because you have something worth protecting doesn't strike me as a valid reason to receive a massive power boost. It might be motivation, but it wouldn't affect your power level in any way. If anything, it's taught me that maybe if villains had more friends they'd win more.
Saint Seiya is notorious for this. Even worse than Fairy Tail, maybe? I still like to watch those shows, though (sans Fairy Tail as I just like the manga).

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Posted 3/22/14

Magilad wrote:


BLACKOUTMK2 wrote:



Finally, the POWER OF FRIENDSHIP also annoys me. Just because you have something worth protecting doesn't strike me as a valid reason to receive a massive power boost. It might be motivation, but it wouldn't affect your power level in any way. If anything, it's taught me that maybe if villains had more friends they'd win more.
Saint Seiya is notorious for this. Even worse than Fairy Tail, maybe? I still like to watch those shows, though (sans Fairy Tail as I just like the manga).



Oh yeah, I'm not saying it makes the shows bad per se, and I sort of shrug it off if it does happen, it's just that it sort of feels like a cop out excuse of a power up since so many shows use it.
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Posted 3/22/14 , edited 3/22/14

HauAreWe wrote:


BLACKOUTMK2 wrote:
Finally, the POWER OF FRIENDSHIP also annoys me. Just because you have something worth protecting doesn't strike me as a valid reason to receive a massive power boost. If anything, it's taught me that maybe if villains had more friends they'd win more.


Reminds me of Robot Girls Z where the villains are certainly a large group of friends, but they get trumped by the cold heartless Mazinger girls because they're not the protagonists XD.


BLACKOUTMK2 wrote:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-HOAuiY5XFQ (Koyomi vs Araragi in Bakemonogatari albeit more of a beatdown to showcase the strength of the demon in question)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y41FCMkOFnQ (Spike Spiegel vs Vincent Volaju from the end of Cowboy Bebop Knockin' on Heaven's Door, also some fantastic choreography)


I've been repeated -.-


And? We wrote similar things. Last I checked your post didn't have any more superiority or entitlement to exist over mine. The fact you're getting annoyed at how I agree with you just convinces me more and more that humans are stupid.
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Posted 3/22/14

BLACKOUTMK2 wrote:

Here are some fights I enjoyed:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rR1cMPnMcaY (The all too fantastic Sword of the Stranger fight and my absolute favourite)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-HOAuiY5XFQ (Koyomi vs Araragi in Bakemonogatari albeit more of a beatdown to showcase the strength of the demon in question)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y41FCMkOFnQ (Spike Spiegel vs Vincent Volaju from the end of Cowboy Bebop Knockin' on Heaven's Door, also some fantastic choreography)

Made the links "clickable" to make it easier for others to enjoy without having to Copy & Paste them in their browser window.
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Posted 3/22/14


That fight in Bakemonogatari made me laugh.
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Posted 3/22/14

Hairbelly wrote:


BLACKOUTMK2 wrote:

Here are some fights I enjoyed:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rR1cMPnMcaY (The all too fantastic Sword of the Stranger fight and my absolute favourite)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-HOAuiY5XFQ (Koyomi vs Araragi in Bakemonogatari albeit more of a beatdown to showcase the strength of the demon in question)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y41FCMkOFnQ (Spike Spiegel vs Vincent Volaju from the end of Cowboy Bebop Knockin' on Heaven's Door, also some fantastic choreography)

Made the links "clickable" to make it easier for others to enjoy without having to Copy & Paste them in their browser window.


Well sorry for making you have to exert an inane amount of effort. Seriously, it takes all of 3 seconds to copy and paste. If you can't be bothered nor have the time to do that, god knows you don't have time to watch the video.
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Posted 3/22/14

BLACKOUTMK2 wrote:

Well sorry for making you have to exert an inane amount of effort. Seriously, it takes all of 3 seconds to copy and paste. If you can't be bothered nor have the time to do that, god knows you don't have time to watch the video.


I wasn't being a dick... I was trying to help you out. Thought the stuff you posted was good. Calm down.
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Posted 3/22/14

Hairbelly wrote:


BLACKOUTMK2 wrote:

Well sorry for making you have to exert an inane amount of effort. Seriously, it takes all of 3 seconds to copy and paste. If you can't be bothered nor have the time to do that, god knows you don't have time to watch the video.


I wasn't being a dick... I was trying to help you out. Thought the stuff you posted was good. Calm down.


I appreciate the help, but the way you said it sounded like one of those 'sheesh, the laziness of some people' types of posts. Though in all fairness it's impossible to accurately pick up someone's tone from text alone.
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Posted 3/22/14

BLACKOUTMK2 wrote:

I appreciate the help, but the way you said it sounded like one of those 'sheesh, the laziness of some people' types of posts. Though in all fairness it's impossible to accurately pick up someone's tone from text alone.


Totally understandable. I come across like that sometimes. Honestly, just trying to be helpful.
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Posted 3/22/14

Hairbelly wrote:


BLACKOUTMK2 wrote:

I appreciate the help, but the way you said it sounded like one of those 'sheesh, the laziness of some people' types of posts. Though in all fairness it's impossible to accurately pick up someone's tone from text alone.


Totally understandable. I come across like that sometimes. Honestly, just trying to be helpful.


Well I've changed it now. I just wouldn't have been surprised if you were mad, since the last person had a go for me typing very similar stuff to them. I mean, seriously? We're getting mad at people because they agree with us now?
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