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Some Thoughts About Art
Bavalt 
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Posted 3/22/14

RedExodus wrote:

Talent is a combination of even smaller talents, some of which may not even be talents and are skills that can be learned. It's way too complex.

Besides that, the 10,000 hour estimate it takes to reach grandmaster level at something is fairly accurate. Even if you have zero talent, you can reach levels where you can easily fool almost anyone into thinking you have immense talent with enough serious hours. Hours, not years or even days is what counts.

A person makes the most progress within the first 20 or so hours of effective practice so I suppose it would be easy to exaggerate the learning curves between people. This is also known as the Pareto principle. After that phase, the improvement curve takes a major dip and it becomes much harder to tell the difference between peoples' skills.


To further emphasize this: compare this post to mine, above it. We're basically saying the same thing, but RedExodus gets his point across much more concisely and elegantly that I do, because, well, he knows what he's talking about. He's got actual knowledge under his belt on the topic and is not just winging his reply based on personal experience, like I did.

Getting good at something is basically learning. Some people have some knowledge innately, but there's no real discernible limit to how much you can learn about something. Art follows that principle: every time you sit down and make a piece of art, you're learning something about art. Maybe you make a mistake and fix it; maybe you find a neat little trick to use in the future. Over time, these little pieces of knowledge will be so miniscule that you don't consciously notice them, but they're still building up as long as you're engaging with the activity. As long as habits remain consistent, you will eventually surpass people who don't do so as much as you do, regardless of your respective starting points.
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Posted 3/23/14

GayAsianBoy wrote:

all an artist needs is inspiration... ability to digest ideas and then communicate that idea through a medium.


it's not rocket science...


but if you want to become the composer that can move billions of people with a composition... then that might be a different story, might need both innate talent, passion and dedication.

but if you just want to express yourself and be able to appreciate your own art... then anybody can do it...


Close to that. Just a mangaka or comic artist.
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Posted 3/23/14
I do not believe anybody is born with talent. There are some that have a bit of an affinity for something and can pick it up more easily than someone else, but no genius ever achieved greatness without putting everything they had into their work.

It doesn't matter how impossibly hard you think drawing is, if you want to learn it badly enough then chase after it. It may take more effort than someone else but you can still surpass them in talent if you put the effort in.

To give a real life example, I was a swimmer for 16 years. At year 12, I ended up having to stop year round training because my family went into serious debt, and I had to take a job to help pay for it, so I only swam seasonally for my high school. A lot of people hated me because I still won 2 state championships and got all-state qualified even though I only swam about 4 months out of the year. But it always pissed me off because I sacrificed an immense amount of my time, and dedicated my entire life trying to get good at it. My social life was nearly nonexistent, and I hardly ever slept, all I did was work out, work, and swim in high school. And I wouldn't have it any other way, if I was just like, "whatever gg ez noobs" and could swim just because it was my destiny to or whatever I wouldn't have felt rewarded for getting to where I ended up.
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Posted 3/23/14

Elvi_Chan wrote:


BigDaddyDelish wrote:

I do not believe anybody is born with talent. There are some that have a bit of an affinity for something and can pick it up more easily than someone else, but no genius ever achieved greatness without putting everything they had into their work.

It doesn't matter how impossibly hard you think drawing is, if you want to learn it badly enough then chase after it. It may take more effort than someone else but you can still surpass them in talent if you put the effort in.

To give a real life example, I was a swimmer for 16 years. At year 12, I ended up having to stop year round training because my family went into serious debt, and I had to take a job to help pay for it, so I only swam seasonally for my high school. A lot of people hated me because I still won 2 state championships and got all-state qualified even though I only swam about 4 months out of the year. But it always pissed me off because I sacrificed an immense amount of my time, and dedicated my entire life trying to get good at it. My social life was nearly nonexistent, and I hardly ever slept, all I did was work out, work, and swim in high school. And I wouldn't have it any other way, if I was just like, "whatever gg ez noobs" and could swim just because it was my destiny to or whatever I wouldn't have felt rewarded for getting to where I ended up.


VERY WELL stated! and that's the truth, without putting 100% effort you will not get anywhere to drawing good. BRAVO -claps-


Wrongly stated. You cannot deny there are born geniuses in the world. Genetics is a heavy factor but so is environmental factors. You also cannot speak for every talented person that existed. Am I saying you can't learn to draw well? Not at all. But it is inaccurate to say hard work 100% gets you anywhere.


Posted 3/23/14

CoffeeGodEddy wrote:


Elvi_Chan wrote:


BigDaddyDelish wrote:

I do not believe anybody is born with talent. There are some that have a bit of an affinity for something and can pick it up more easily than someone else, but no genius ever achieved greatness without putting everything they had into their work.

It doesn't matter how impossibly hard you think drawing is, if you want to learn it badly enough then chase after it. It may take more effort than someone else but you can still surpass them in talent if you put the effort in.

To give a real life example, I was a swimmer for 16 years. At year 12, I ended up having to stop year round training because my family went into serious debt, and I had to take a job to help pay for it, so I only swam seasonally for my high school. A lot of people hated me because I still won 2 state championships and got all-state qualified even though I only swam about 4 months out of the year. But it always pissed me off because I sacrificed an immense amount of my time, and dedicated my entire life trying to get good at it. My social life was nearly nonexistent, and I hardly ever slept, all I did was work out, work, and swim in high school. And I wouldn't have it any other way, if I was just like, "whatever gg ez noobs" and could swim just because it was my destiny to or whatever I wouldn't have felt rewarded for getting to where I ended up.


VERY WELL stated! and that's the truth, without putting 100% effort you will not get anywhere to drawing good. BRAVO -claps-


Wrongly stated. You cannot deny there are born geniuses in the world. Genetics is a heavy factor but so is environmental factors. You also cannot speak for every talented person that existed. Am I saying you can't learn to draw well? Not at all. But it is inaccurate to say hard work 100% gets you anywhere.




This was not wrongly nor rightly stated. hence it being an opinion. and speaking that this thread is purely for art purposes and opinions, hard work does get you somewhere. Without practice and determination then one will not be able to achieve the best in their art skills. I did not say that with 100% hard work will get you anywhere. I simply stated that without giving it your 100% in drawing "Art" you will not be able to become good at it or come out with a "good" drawing.
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Posted 3/23/14



Not to be rude, but this line right here: VERY WELL stated! and that's the truth, without putting 100% effort you will not get anywhere to drawing good.

Truth & Opinion are not synonyms like you are trying to use them as.
Also, the underlined portion implies that you cannot draw unless you put in effort which is untrue.
Besides, art isn't limited to drawing.
Posted 3/23/14 , edited 3/23/14


not being rude at all. Yes it is the truth to what I think -my opinion- as to without giving it your all then you will not end up with a good drawing. No where did I ever imply that you cannot draw without putting effort. Everyone can draw, but since this thread is about acquiring this skill for those who cannot draw well or good in perspective to what others think is good or what not, then I stay with what I have stated. Without putting your 100% effort how will anyone achieve the best that they can be. And please correct me if I am wrong. ..
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Posted 3/23/14

Elvi_Chan wrote:



not being rude at all. Yes it is the truth to what I think -my opinion- as to without giving it your all then you will not end up with a good drawing. No where did I ever imply that you cannot draw without putting effort. Everyone can draw, but since this thread is about acquiring this skill for those who cannot draw well or good in perspective to what others think is good or what not, then I stay with what I have stated. Without putting your 100% effort how will anyone achieve the best that they can be. And please correct me if I am wrong. ..


A new problem as arisen: Being the best they can be and being talented. If someone wants to be their very best, I believe that's where your hard work plays a very heavy factor but I also believe that pure talent is present in this world. It's up to the artist at that point. But for someone like myself who can't draw to save their life, I would have to put hours into my work and be instructed before I could even draw a stick figure. I've been in art classes with first timers also who pick up a pencil and make wonders. It's frustrating but that's one of the reasons I believe talent is innate for a lot of people. Talent can be acquired through hard work and dedication too. But on terms of the potential of someone, that is entirely hard work. Being talented however is a seesaw; it rocks back and forth on one or the other or both.
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"Year-end cleanup. Closing threads with no activity since 2014."
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