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How many of you know Japanese?
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19 / M / Not a place you n...
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Posted 3/27/14
I actually personally have been thinking about learning Japanese, although I'll admit, the absolute magnitude of differences between it and English (and French, which I speak loosely) are very intimidating. One thing I wanna try, though, is watching the RAWs with knowing hardly anything and making up my own story. Sort of like a fanfic but with audio and visual accompaniment taken right from the original source material. THE ULTIMATE WOOLSEYISM! Yeah, it'd be stupid, but entertaining nonetheless.
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Posted 3/27/14

thewanderingforce wrote:

I actually personally have been thinking about learning Japanese, although I'll admit, the absolute magnitude of differences between it and English (and French, which I speak loosely) are very intimidating. One thing I wanna try, though, is watching the RAWs with knowing hardly anything and making up my own story. Sort of like a fanfic but with audio and visual accompaniment taken right from the original source material. THE ULTIMATE WOOLSEYISM! Yeah, it'd be stupid, but entertaining nonetheless.


Ehhh. I thought so too, but I managed to memorize the hiragana and katakana, as well as their variations easily enough.
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Posted 3/27/14

Phersu wrote:


thewanderingforce wrote:

I actually personally have been thinking about learning Japanese, although I'll admit, the absolute magnitude of differences between it and English (and French, which I speak loosely) are very intimidating. One thing I wanna try, though, is watching the RAWs with knowing hardly anything and making up my own story. Sort of like a fanfic but with audio and visual accompaniment taken right from the original source material. THE ULTIMATE WOOLSEYISM! Yeah, it'd be stupid, but entertaining nonetheless.


Ehhh. I thought so too, but I managed to memorize the hiragana and katakana, as well as their variations easily enough.


Okay, I'll probably sound stupid, but how exactly did you learn? I've been trying to look up different ways to get a handle on the language, but the methods I've found are either expensive or just don't seem that effective. Maybe I'm just looking in the wrong places, perhaps? I just want to make sure that if I invest a lot of time into something, there's at least a fairly good chance it'll pay off. If you could answer, thanks. If not, bizarre fanfics ho!
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Posted 3/27/14

thewanderingforce wrote:


Phersu wrote:


thewanderingforce wrote:

I actually personally have been thinking about learning Japanese, although I'll admit, the absolute magnitude of differences between it and English (and French, which I speak loosely) are very intimidating. One thing I wanna try, though, is watching the RAWs with knowing hardly anything and making up my own story. Sort of like a fanfic but with audio and visual accompaniment taken right from the original source material. THE ULTIMATE WOOLSEYISM! Yeah, it'd be stupid, but entertaining nonetheless.


Ehhh. I thought so too, but I managed to memorize the hiragana and katakana, as well as their variations easily enough.


Okay, I'll probably sound stupid, but how exactly did you learn? I've been trying to look up different ways to get a handle on the language, but the methods I've found are either expensive or just don't seem that effective. Maybe I'm just looking in the wrong places, perhaps? I just want to make sure that if I invest a lot of time into something, there's at least a fairly good chance it'll pay off. If you could answer, thanks. If not, bizarre fanfics ho!


They have some apps on the phone, and books. Personally, I prefer mnemonics. Just remember, the double dash marks makes t - d, h - b, chi - ji/dhi, shi - ji, k - g, and s - z. The little circle makes h - p.
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Posted 3/27/14

Phersu wrote:


thewanderingforce wrote:


Phersu wrote:


thewanderingforce wrote:

I actually personally have been thinking about learning Japanese, although I'll admit, the absolute magnitude of differences between it and English (and French, which I speak loosely) are very intimidating. One thing I wanna try, though, is watching the RAWs with knowing hardly anything and making up my own story. Sort of like a fanfic but with audio and visual accompaniment taken right from the original source material. THE ULTIMATE WOOLSEYISM! Yeah, it'd be stupid, but entertaining nonetheless.


Ehhh. I thought so too, but I managed to memorize the hiragana and katakana, as well as their variations easily enough.


Okay, I'll probably sound stupid, but how exactly did you learn? I've been trying to look up different ways to get a handle on the language, but the methods I've found are either expensive or just don't seem that effective. Maybe I'm just looking in the wrong places, perhaps? I just want to make sure that if I invest a lot of time into something, there's at least a fairly good chance it'll pay off. If you could answer, thanks. If not, bizarre fanfics ho!


They have some apps on the phone, and books. Personally, I prefer mnemonics. Just remember, the double dash marks makes t - d, h - b, chi - ji/dhi, shi - ji, k - g, and s - z. The little circle makes h - p.


Well, thanks.
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Posted 3/27/14 , edited 3/27/14
What's encouraging to note is that it takes roughly 2000 solid hours to reach C levels(beyond fluency and writing included) in Japanese, which is still nothing compared to how long it takes for infants to learn a language well. Adults can choose to learn a language the wrong way unlike kids, but adults learn languages faster. The 1000s of common words borrowed from English are also freebie vocabulary.

thewanderingforce wrote:


Phersu wrote:


thewanderingforce wrote:

I actually personally have been thinking about learning Japanese, although I'll admit, the absolute magnitude of differences between it and English (and French, which I speak loosely) are very intimidating. One thing I wanna try, though, is watching the RAWs with knowing hardly anything and making up my own story. Sort of like a fanfic but with audio and visual accompaniment taken right from the original source material. THE ULTIMATE WOOLSEYISM! Yeah, it'd be stupid, but entertaining nonetheless.


Ehhh. I thought so too, but I managed to memorize the hiragana and katakana, as well as their variations easily enough.


Okay, I'll probably sound stupid, but how exactly did you learn? I've been trying to look up different ways to get a handle on the language, but the methods I've found are either expensive or just don't seem that effective. Maybe I'm just looking in the wrong places, perhaps? I just want to make sure that if I invest a lot of time into something, there's at least a fairly good chance it'll pay off. If you could answer, thanks. If not, bizarre fanfics ho!

I learned how to read the kana by having the charts out while I simultaneously game in another window so I don't get bored. I occasionally watch JP music videos with kana to reinforce them. In 4 days, the business was done.

I also recommend rikai-kun as an efficient online dictionary. I'd estimate that I learned how to read and use with words a little over 1000 kanji in 3 months with non-intensive reading. Learning how to read them is easy for most people, it's just that many people don't know how to write them. I recommend Heisig's book if you want to learn to write the characters but it's not strictly necessary.

I've provided some useful google searches for polyglot blogs. It's important to not let language learning feel like studying/suffering. If it builds up and it reaches the "burn out" point, it's probably game over. Coming from these guys, if you don't like a method, toss it and give another method a chance. It's important for your motivation to use methods that you like. You should not feel obliged to use a method just because most people do whether it's school(sucks) or flash cards or Anki.
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Posted 3/27/14
I'm learning katakana and romanji right now. Although having a class would definitely help.
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Posted 3/27/14
I can read pretty naturally if there are kana, but kanji kills me. I think a day is enough to learn kana, but kanji is... Still, I think it is cool so I am memorizing lots. I would say for listening, it depends how much I understand. Sometimes I get pretty much everything, but if there is dialect or archaic stuff going on, I get confused. I think some early class learning helped, because I have a solid foundation in basic grammar, so the listening actually helps me learn more.
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Posted 3/27/14
I guess Tae Kim's guide can provide grammar along with examples if you're into that sort of thing. It's free too.
http://www.guidetojapanese.org/learn/complete
I personally do not deliberately memorize grammar. I just use them to help me notice how the language is used.
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Posted 3/27/14
Well I normally watch raw since mother language is Japanese but I watch sometimes in English subtitles to increase my reading speed.
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Posted 3/27/14

thewanderingforce wrote:

Okay, I'll probably sound stupid, but how exactly did you learn? I've been trying to look up different ways to get a handle on the language, but the methods I've found are either expensive or just don't seem that effective. Maybe I'm just looking in the wrong places, perhaps? I just want to make sure that if I invest a lot of time into something, there's at least a fairly good chance it'll pay off. If you could answer, thanks. If not, bizarre fanfics ho!


Immersion through Japanese video games. I play Japanese 3DS games with furigana, and it's helped me immensely in learning to read, memorizing kana, aquiring vocabularly (especially kanji retention), and just plain exposure. Some games are most definitely better than others to use (the Level-5 games I played have waaaay too much incessant dialogue and although aimed at children I've had a lot of difficulty comprehending dialogue; however, their games are beautifully made with a lot of depth and they're fun).

And by the way, most methods will pay off if you're willing to work with it and invest a serious amount of time. It's a commitment, and it takes forever to pay off and be legitimately useful. You will be frustrated, you will feel like your time and money are wasted, and you will consider quitting some days. But stick with it if that's what you want, and you must absolutely be realistic in your goals. You fail the moment you set unrealistic goals.


RedExodus wrote:

What's encouraging to note is that it takes roughly 2000 solid hours to reach C levels(beyond fluency and writing included) in Japanese, which is still nothing compared to how long it takes for infants to learn a language well. Adults can choose to learn a language the wrong way unlike kids, but adults learn languages faster. The 1000s of common words borrowed from English are also freebie vocabulary.


The '1000s of common words borrowed from English' are nothing short of a nightmare. I hate them, and they're not so easy to recognize. I much prefer kanji, and I doubt I'm alone on this. I really dislike katakana and especially all the unneeded borrowing from foreign languages. It gets ridiculous sometimes; it's as if they really want to abandon their own language. You could argue that's what makes Japanese unique, but I disagree. And it really is a nightmare to learn. Additionally, everyone learns at different rates, so the suggested hours to attain a certain fluency are just that. Typically, the more languages you speak, the easier it is to aquire more languages. And of course there's the issue of your native lanuage and any other languages you already know giving you a discount. Though with Japanese that'd mostly be Korean, with the various Chinese languages being a distant second.

*I apologize for any spelling errors in advance; I'm typing on my phone.
Posted 3/27/14
Took japanese for 3 years in HS, I only remember how to say 'Shut Up!'.
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Posted 3/27/14
Very little Japanese for me, but I plan to change that very soon.
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Posted 3/27/14

neumaus wrote:


thewanderingforce wrote:

Okay, I'll probably sound stupid, but how exactly did you learn? I've been trying to look up different ways to get a handle on the language, but the methods I've found are either expensive or just don't seem that effective. Maybe I'm just looking in the wrong places, perhaps? I just want to make sure that if I invest a lot of time into something, there's at least a fairly good chance it'll pay off. If you could answer, thanks. If not, bizarre fanfics ho!


Immersion through Japanese video games. I play Japanese 3DS games with furigana, and it's helped me immensely in learning to read, memorizing kana, aquiring vocabularly (especially kanji retention), and just plain exposure. Some games are most definitely better than others to use (the Level-5 games I played have waaaay too much incessant dialogue and although aimed at children I've had a lot of difficulty comprehending dialogue; however, their games are beautifully made with a lot of depth and they're fun).

And by the way, most methods will pay off if you're willing to work with it and invest a serious amount of time. It's a commitment, and it takes forever to pay off and be legitimately useful. You will be frustrated, you will feel like your time and money are wasted, and you will consider quitting some days. But stick with it if that's what you want, and you must absolutely be realistic in your goals. You fail the moment you set unrealistic goals.


RedExodus wrote:

What's encouraging to note is that it takes roughly 2000 solid hours to reach C levels(beyond fluency and writing included) in Japanese, which is still nothing compared to how long it takes for infants to learn a language well. Adults can choose to learn a language the wrong way unlike kids, but adults learn languages faster. The 1000s of common words borrowed from English are also freebie vocabulary.


The '1000s of common words borrowed from English' are nothing short of a nightmare. I hate them, and they're not so easy to recognize. I much prefer kanji, and I doubt I'm alone on this. I really dislike katakana and especially all the unneeded borrowing from foreign languages. It gets ridiculous sometimes; it's as if they really want to abandon their own language. You could argue that's what makes Japanese unique, but I disagree. And it really is a nightmare to learn. Additionally, everyone learns at different rates, so the suggested hours to attain a certain fluency are just that. Typically, the more languages you speak, the easier it is to aquire more languages. And of course there's the issue of your native lanuage and any other languages you already know giving you a discount. Though with Japanese that'd mostly be Korean, with the various Chinese languages being a distant second.

*I apologize for any spelling errors in advance; I'm typing on my phone.

I suppose goal oriented learning can be effective. There's also an alternative goalless method though.
http://www.davidmansaray.com/practice-misunderstood

Oh ya, I forgot to mention that the 2000h figure is for English speakers learning L2. It's true that learning paces can vary but it's a lot more accurate than counting by years as most people do. It may take a person 6months or 8years to become fluent in a language but that kind of difference doesn't happen for the hourly count. I don't remember what language study put out these hours but it's a lot more accurate than it may seem assuming that the methods aren't whack like trying to learn it from school,

Oh yeah guys, text hookers are also very useful if you'd like to use VNs and the like.
Posted 3/27/14
I used to know a lot of different languages but with nothing to practice with I lost the skill so learning Japanese would be the same, absolutely useless.
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