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Timeless Classics
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41 / M / Oakland, CA
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Posted 3/30/14

mow123 wrote:

how many people here can actually even name a 30 year old anime that isn't miyazaki and din't air for more than 7+ years, the earliest ones I start to even think about are around 20 years old. Hell even just from when I started watching anime to now a lot of "insanely popular" anime are now pretty much dead now. I can name 30 year old anime but I haven't seen it. I still do think there will be a few, but they only happen like once every 5-10 years. Some people are naming shows that did horrid in sales, but are just seen as good. Those shows have pretty much never been even poplar. people will be talking about naruto many years from now, shit or not, it has been very popular for a very long time. Anything very poplar will last a long time, how good it was doesn't do a whole lot it how often people remember and how many that counts. Cowboy beebop is in there, its been around for enough time that it should be dead but its isn't, same with neon genesis and even trigun, trigun didn't do that well in japan as far as I know so it may not be. The thing about neon genesis is there have been recent movies, sayin hey this is still alive. Its hard to tell if something is dead or not too. Just cause some people are talking about it doesn't mean its alive.


Well, we were JUST talking about star blazers.

Also, there was no US anime community to speak of back then, which is another thing that's come up.

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Posted 3/30/14
Popularity is an imperfect indicator. Blockbuster movies rake in tons of cash every year, but they're just replaced by the next year's blockbusters. Additionally, there are films in the past that did horribly that we now consider timeless.

Being a classic has to do with longevity and aging; trying to pull something up from the 80s is almost impossible unless it's well known, but thanks to the internet I think we can expect current anime to be at our fingertips for a long time.

Film is in a similar spot; people are hoping digitalization will allow for broader access to esoteric materials.
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Posted 3/30/14
Dragonball
Yu Yu Hakusho
Rurouni Kenshin
Ghost in the Shell
Azumanga Daioh
Trigun
Cowboy Bebop
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Posted 3/30/14
Something from this decade that may become a classic....
Puella Magi Madoka Magica.
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41 / M / Oakland, CA
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Posted 3/30/14

Insomnist wrote:

Popularity is an imperfect indicator. Blockbuster movies rake in tons of cash every year, but they're just replaced by the next year's blockbusters. Additionally, there are films in the past that did horribly that we now consider timeless.

Being a classic has to do with longevity and aging; trying to pull something up from the 80s is almost impossible unless it's well known, but thanks to the internet I think we can expect current anime to be at our fingertips for a long time.

Film is in a similar spot; people are hoping digitalization will allow for broader access to esoteric materials.


I disagree, anime isn't like film in a few ways, and we don't treat it like it is. The things the US generally remembers well from the last few decades are the ones that were widely available and watched.

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Posted 3/30/14

Insomnist wrote:

Popularity is an imperfect indicator. Blockbuster movies rake in tons of cash every year, but they're just replaced by the next year's blockbusters. Additionally, there are films in the past that did horribly that we now consider timeless.

Being a classic has to do with longevity and aging; trying to pull something up from the 80s is almost impossible unless it's well known, but thanks to the internet I think we can expect current anime to be at our fingertips for a long time.

Film is in a similar spot; people are hoping digitalization will allow for broader access to esoteric materials.


If thats the case anything that is long as hell like pokemon or doremon is instant classic. That actually tells me that naruto is more likely to be a classic.... one thing to note is that it could get overshadowed by a similar type of show, maybe one piece? This happens in video games all the time, everyone sees golden eye n64 as a classic rather than the way ahead of its time perfect dark. Classic is a tricky word, will initial d become a classic because its unique because its one of the few anime car shows out there? It's hard to say what exactly makes something last longer than the rest. You can tell how fast something diminishes right after the anime ends, there is always a massive popularity plunge when the given anime is over, then depending on how fast it is decaying you can kind of tell if it will be or not. Keeping the anime alive for a long time is a very big advantage. Being popular is another very big advantage. Gundam is classic cause they keep bring it back every so often. Do you think if there was only one gundam people would remember the first still? Same with macross.

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Posted 3/30/14

windsagio wrote:

I disagree, anime isn't like film in a few ways, and we don't treat it like it is. The things the US generally remembers well from the last few decades are the ones that were widely available and watched.

That's partially what I'm saying, old film is esoteric. Even the people who have a lot of interest in it rarely have access to all the things they'd like to see. But from digitalization forward, ideally that should no longer be the case.

Granted, it probably will be because studios will continue to keep their rights locked down, but it's at least theoretically easier to gain access to something that's digital than something that's on a reel in a box in a storehouse in California.

I expect that the internet will have a similar influence on anime, thanks to pirating and torrents if nothing else.


Also, some "classics" that were box office flops:

The Wizard of Oz
Citizen Kane
12 Angry Men
Blade Runner
Fight Club
It's a Wonderful Life
Office Space
Raging Bull
The Big Lebowski
The Shawshank Redemption
Vertigo
Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory

I'm just pointing out that how much influence something has isn't correlated to how well it's initially received. If anything, it's more about there being skill in the production which is recognized by other skilled members of the industry.

Which I don't think is a determining factor, rather more of an indicator.

That demonstration of "skill" is what raises something above the cliches of its time to be noticed by future audiences. Popularity just bypasses the initial risk of being locked up on a storage cellar and never actually seen by anyone.

There might be lost classics, but there are also obscure ones; as well as popular shit.

Therefore I don't think popularity really has anything to do with being a classic, but that might just be my definition.
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Posted 3/30/14

Insomnist wrote:



I'm just pointing out that how much influence something has isn't correlated to how well it's initially received. If anything, it's more about there being skill in the production which is recognized by other skilled members of the industry.

Which I don't think is a determining factor, rather more of an indicator.

That demonstration of "skill" is what raises something above the cliches of its time to be noticed by future audiences. Popularity just bypasses the initial risk of being locked up on a storage cellar and never actually seen by anyone.

There might be lost classics, but there are also obscure ones; as well as popular shit.

Therefore I don't think popularity really has anything to do with being a classic, but that might just be my definition.


Again, we treat film as art and the study of film has been a respected field for decades now. Anime is different. Even as we discuss whether it can be art, we don't really teach it as such. (And the study is what keeps some of those films relevant)

What I'm trying to predict is 'what will be remembered', and I Take a very cynical view of that. We're going to remember our anime Jaws and Star Wars not our anime Chinatown.
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Posted 3/30/14 , edited 3/30/14

windsagio wrote:

Again, we treat film as art and the study of film has been a respected field for decades now. Anime is different. Even as we discuss whether it can be art, we don't really teach it as such. (And the study is what keeps some of those films relevant)

What I'm trying to predict is 'what will be remembered', and I Take a very cynical view of that. We're going to remember our anime Jaws and Star Wars not our anime Chinatown.

I'm not talking about people outside the film industry who study it, I'm talking about people on the inside who work in it. When those people acknowledge a film it's likely to have a "classic" quality, even if it's obscure to the rest of us. It's like a chess match, you get the best games between two skilled players. Classics are films that reward viewer skill.

At least that's my definition, something that can outlive its era and still be a rewarding experience.

If we're just talking about what will be popular from today in 30 years, that's completely random. It will depend on what the prevailing tastes are in 30 years, and whether or not anything that's made now happens to appeal to the whimsical interests of a future audience. Classics aren't wildly popular, but they have name recognition and respect.

Edit: I might not be explaining myself well. But I think we might just have different definitions for what a classic is.
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Posted 3/30/14
TRIGUN!!!!!
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41 / M / Oakland, CA
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Posted 3/30/14

Insomnist wrote:


windsagio wrote:

Again, we treat film as art and the study of film has been a respected field for decades now. Anime is different. Even as we discuss whether it can be art, we don't really teach it as such. (And the study is what keeps some of those films relevant)

What I'm trying to predict is 'what will be remembered', and I Take a very cynical view of that. We're going to remember our anime Jaws and Star Wars not our anime Chinatown.

I'm not talking about people outside the film industry who study it, I'm talking about people on the inside who work in it. When those people acknowledge a film it's likely to have a "classic" quality, even if it's obscure to the rest of us. It's like a chess match, you get the best games between two skilled players. Classics are films that reward viewer skill.

At least that's my definition, something that can outlive its era and still be a rewarding experience.

If we're just talking about what will be popular from today in 30 years, that's completely random. It will depend on what the prevailing tastes are in 30 years, and whether or not anything that's made now happens to appeal to the whimsical interests of a future audience. Classics aren't wildly popular, but they have name recognition and respect.

Edit: I might not be explaining myself well. But I think we might just have different definitions for what a classic is.


I guess the place I'm coming from is that what we personally consider a classic can never really be extended beyond ourselves. And believe me I have my personal list... but if we talk about that it ends up reading as another 'what's your favorite anime?' thread.

Coming from that position, 'what will be remembered widely as a big deal' is more of a conversation you can sink your teeth into.



So all that being said, I think the significant show from the last year in the terms you're considering it would be KSGG. That's not what's gonna stick in the conciousness though, those are gonna be SAO or AOT (the summer blockbusters, in film parlance).
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Posted 3/30/14 , edited 3/30/14

windsagio wrote:

I guess the place I'm coming from is that what we personally consider a classic can never really be extended beyond ourselves. And believe me I have my personal list... but if we talk about that it ends up reading as another 'what's your favorite anime?' thread.

Coming from that position, 'what will be remembered widely as a big deal' is more of a conversation you can sink your teeth into.



So all that being said, I think the significant show from the last year in the terms you're considering it would be KSGG. That's not what's gonna stick in the conciousness though, those are gonna be SAO or AOT (the summer blockbusters, in film parlance).

I'm also painfully aware that a bunch of things on my list are more popular picks than the ideal classics that I've described as well, due to my lack of "skill"; I don't think SAO or AoT will last, though; AoT is notable for its advanced 3D animation and movement, but I think it's more like the first to get a foot in the door. They'll both be overshadowed.

People will still watch them, I go back and watch all kinds of shows I wouldn't call classics but still enjoy. But in terms of their being respected by future audiences... I'd doubt it. They rely too much on spectacle, and spectacle is easily outclassed. I'd liken them to Transformers; fairly revolutionary technology and fun to watch, but a timeless story? ...
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Posted 3/31/14
Going to throw Shinsekai yori into the mix. I don't know how well it will hold name recognition, but I think it has that feel of a classic. A timeless story, a larger message, vivid characters, etc etc.
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Posted 3/31/14
LOVE HINA, EVANGELION, THE VISION OF ESCAFLOWNE, CHOBITS, SAIKANO, SAILOR MOON, DR. SLUMP, DRAGON BALL, CODE GEAS, AIR, GEAR, CLANAD AND ONE PIECE and more probably..........
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Posted 3/31/14

Insomnist wrote:


windsagio wrote:

I guess the place I'm coming from is that what we personally consider a classic can never really be extended beyond ourselves. And believe me I have my personal list... but if we talk about that it ends up reading as another 'what's your favorite anime?' thread.

Coming from that position, 'what will be remembered widely as a big deal' is more of a conversation you can sink your teeth into.



So all that being said, I think the significant show from the last year in the terms you're considering it would be KSGG. That's not what's gonna stick in the conciousness though, those are gonna be SAO or AOT (the summer blockbusters, in film parlance).

I'm also painfully aware that a bunch of things on my list are more popular picks than the ideal classics that I've described as well, due to my lack of "skill"; I don't think SAO or AoT will last, though; AoT is notable for its advanced 3D animation and movement, but I think it's more like the first to get a foot in the door. They'll both be overshadowed.

People will still watch them, I go back and watch all kinds of shows I wouldn't call classics but still enjoy. But in terms of their being respected by future audiences... I'd doubt it. They rely too much on spectacle, and spectacle is easily outclassed. I'd liken them to Transformers; fairly revolutionary technology and fun to watch, but a timeless story? ...


I think people will add the timelessness. As an example, Cowboy bebop is a good story told well. It's not revolutionary or timeless, it's just 'good' with *excellent* action. It's also probably one of the most common entries on this list.

It's not that it's not great (it is), but it's timeless classic quality I'd argue comes from the fact that a lot of people grew up watching it on Toonami.
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