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How people see and handle biogtry these days
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22 / F / Winding Circle
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Posted 4/12/14 , edited 4/12/14
I admit I only skimmed through, but it seemed like it was heading the same way as the previous one.

I'm sorry for assuming.
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19 / M
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Posted 4/12/14 , edited 4/12/14

Syndicaidramon wrote:


michaeldeska



im sorry you over thinking this, those morals you posted are still around, it may not be accepted but people still do that, yes people has slaves illegally and beat them a shit,and some men still believe that women are lesser,im not so sure about marring rapists, an believe it or not their are people out there that kill people for those reasons not that i like or you like or anyone else but their out there unfortunately.


Yes. And that is horrible. Because people who are educated knows that those things are outdated. That they are wrong, if we are to live in a society that is as good as it can be. If we are to live in a society where human rights and dignity is valued and respected.
Just because there are still people who does them, doesn't mean they aren't outdated. Racism is outdated. And yet there are still racists.




michaeldeska
and the old testament is now only used for teachings of the time before Christ, its the new testament that we follow morally.


That is true. However, by saying that you don't support gay rights because of your own personal religious convictions, you seem to totally disregard the golden rule, preferring instead to enforce your own religious beliefs upon others, just like they did in the old testament...

That doesn't seem very christlike to me...


michaeldeska
and i think it is really hurt full and rude for you to say that someones belief is a 100% irrelevant and just because you said that im done here, it would be pointless of me to debate with you if all you do is critisize my religion and others......just absolutely stupid


I'm sorry if I hurt your feelings. That was not my intention. I'm truly, deeply sorry if I did.

However, it IS irrelevant in the sense that it is only YOUR religious belief. And you have no right to treat it as if it applies to anyone other than yourself and those who share your faith.
But that IS what you're doing if you refuse to support gay rights just because your own religious beliefs says it's wrong for YOU to do.

you are forgiven
the reason why that people follow religion the way they is because religion is not only a way of life and a certain way of seeing things it is also a discipline that being said it is relevant for me to not support gay rights, not that i don't mind it i think they should be able to have rights like everyone else because well its America where im at, but its simply not my business, so i wont vote.
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26 / M / Pandemonium
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Posted 4/12/14 , edited 4/12/14

michaeldeska wrote:

you are forgiven
the reason why that people follow religion the way they is because religion is not only a way of life and a certain way of seeing things it is also a discipline that being said it is relevant for me to not support gay rights, not that i don't mind it i think they should be able to have rights like everyone else because well its America where im at, but its simply not my business, so i wont vote.

As long as you don't vote against it, I guess that's fine..
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22 / F / Winding Circle
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Posted 4/12/14
The only reason I don't vote against gay rights is because as much as it makes me uncomfortable and even if I took Catholicism into consideration... it's not my right to judge them. It's not like I want to see it happen with more than hand holding or a kiss on the cheek. Same with heterosexual couples. But it's not my right to say that God will condemn them. It's their own choice in the end, and I can't stop that. So I let people get on with their lives.

I also tend to stay out of gay rights conversations because it gets very intense. I guess I'm about neutral though. Mostly, gay people make me uncomfortable if I meet them and either I was told beforehand or one of the first things they say is that they're gay. I usually try to work through that. At the same time though, if I've already made friends with a person, then find out they're gay months later, then it's a shock yes but it doesn't make me want to avoid them. I've had both scenarios happen.

Mostly, I'm just annoyed that simply because homosexuals and anything relating to that subject (such as transgenders) make me uncomfortable, if I just state that, I'm a bigot and blah blah blah. It's not something I'm proud of but people in some cases won't even hear me try to explain it. That's why this thread was created because being berated for an opinion I don't even really have is not fun. Yes, some people are bigots... but even just having a reasonable opinion is cause to be called a bigot these days because we need to be politically correct and anything against that is wrong wrong wrong. If someone has had many bad experiences with say the Somalis, then I don't blame them for hating them (common in my city since we have many of those immigrants). Just like I don't blame anyone of a minority group for hating a majority if they've had many bad experiences with the majority. I wish both victims would give more of the other group a chance so they can find the good people but I don't blame them. Yet, the way bigotry is handled or labeled these days, only one group is 'right' to hate their bullies. At least that's the way people seem to handle it.
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25 / F / New Jersey, USA
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Posted 4/12/14

Ouzoathena11 wrote:

I admit I only skimmed through, but it seemed like it was heading the same way as the previous one.

I'm sorry for assuming.



The point is that everyone should accept the fact that everyone has the right to express how they feel no matter if it sounds cruel or nice? Nobody should lie in order to please the person when it's their right to tell their feelings. A person can say "I hate African-American" or "I hate Mexicans" because it's their opinion and nothing more.


Is that what your getting at somewhat with this thread? I hate opinions as much as I hate trying to figure out human beings.
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19 / M
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Posted 4/12/14 , edited 5/7/14
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18 / M / new york
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Posted 4/30/14 , edited 5/1/14

michaeldeska wrote:

in most religions being gay is a sin, and their morals are not outdated, the only difference between today and centuries before is the increase of technology,i adopt a lot of them like not to commit murder, adultery, not to lie or steal ext. nothing has changed. morals are not something you can hold physically and does not hold mass or any type of time, so they cant be outdated.

im not tring to say freedom of religion is not important...because it is. and i to will defend it, but just think its wrong to think that someone would be ignorant or a bigot because they dont support gay rights, not unless i heard there reason which can make them a bigot or not.

if i explained the reason Catholics despise gayness er whatever it would take a lot of time, i would just read some scriptures or some parts from the bible if i were you, or you can talk to a local priest if you have one around, because i am in no position to debate that.


to be honest, if it is your religious beliefs that make you think you have just cause to vote against equality then you should be questioning your religious beliefs. the same religious arguments used to justify opposition to gay rights were used to oppose racial equality and rights for women. the bible was used to justify some of the worst things in american history: slavery, genocide of the native americans, racial segregation, womens rights, and many more issues. the same arguments are used by muslims and jews, except they use their text to justify these positions instead of the bible.

i'm not saying christians are heartless killers, racists, and bigots, because that is not true whatsoever. most people i know are either christian, muslim, or jewish, all of whom are awesome people who respect me, and love me for who i am. i'm not even saying religion is bad at all. my point is, religion teaches some very awesome things (charity, love, forgiveness) but also some very not so awesome things. religion is like anything else. a little bit of it is fine, maybe even good. but just like anything else, too much is a horrible, horrible thing. the 10 commandments and the 5 pillars are perfectly respectable tenants to live by. Jesus and Mohammed both taught some really awesome things like love and forgiveness. i have a general respect for some of the basic teachings of all religions, even though i am an atheist. the problem with some religious people is that they take it to a whole new level, and use it as justification for hate and ignorance.

just take religion with a grain of salt. it can be a great thing to live by. just don't take it too literally, fundamentalism of any kind is a horrible thing.
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22 / F / Winding Circle
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Posted 4/30/14
^This has nothing to do with the point of the thread.

Besides, it was never my religious beliefs that made me question it. It was just me being uncomfortable with it, religious or not.
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18 / M / new york
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Posted 5/1/14

Ouzoathena11 wrote:

^This has nothing to do with the point of the thread.

Besides, it was never my religious beliefs that made me question it. It was just me being uncomfortable with it, religious or not.


^ it was a response to somebodies post that stated religious morals against gays are valid and relevant, i should have quoted it. i will fix that. sry that must not have made any sense without context XD
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Posted 5/1/14 , edited 5/1/14
I look at the recent case of that NBA owner who has been lynched by every major and minor media source, sports person and prominent black person for the correctly judged racist comments he made and I kind of shrug my shoulders. Its like a mob and I don't know if I've comfortable the way this story, which is a rather minor story in contrast to the other news we have received, has been blown out of proportion. I do however find the standards weird, that he should receive a lifetime ban for words, which he didn't seem to put into practice in his hiring of the team members, yet certain NBA players have said and done horrible things which aught to warrant the exact same in fines and life time bans but they don't. Yet everyone seems happy and soon the sacrifice will be given to obtain the divine promises from this man and we will forget about it until the next story like this comes along.

The west is becoming markedly unbalanced in how it hands things. It is also failing to reflect on these incidents.


NFTS wrote:

to be honest, if it is your religious beliefs that make you think you have just cause to vote against equality then you should be questioning your religious beliefs. the same religious arguments used to justify opposition to gay rights were used to oppose racial equality and rights for women. the bible was used to justify some of the worst things in american history: slavery, genocide of the native americans, racial segregation, womens rights, and many more issues. the same arguments are used by muslims and jews, except they use their text to justify these positions instead of the bible.

i'm not saying christians are heartless killers, racists, and bigots, because that is not true whatsoever. most people i know are either christian, muslim, or jewish, all of whom are awesome people who respect me, and love me for who i am. i'm not even saying religion is bad at all. my point is, religion teaches some very awesome things (charity, love, forgiveness) but also some very not so awesome things. religion is like anything else. a little bit of it is fine, maybe even good. but just like anything else, too much is a horrible, horrible thing. the 10 commandments and the 5 pillars are perfectly respectable tenants to live by. Jesus and Mohammed both taught some really awesome things like love and forgiveness. i have a general respect for some of the basic teachings of all religions, even though i am an atheist. the problem with some religious people is that they take it to a whole new level, and use it as justification for hate and ignorance.

just take religion with a grain of salt. it can be a great thing to live by. just don't take it too literally, fundamentalism of any kind is a horrible thing.


You do not know the religious mindset if you think this is possible. People have died for their faith, killed for their faith and given up all their earthly possessions for faith. You cannot simply organize religion into the simple categories of violent, non violent or fundamentalist or liberal, there's alot of nuance reflected in virtually every tradition. Who was the real Christian, Saint Anthony of the desert or Saint Constantine the Roman Emperor? Lets consider another example, that you can have peaceful Buddhists is a given in today's society, but you can also have the ancient Buddhists of japan in the 15th century who wielded incredible political and societal power and they used that to persecute the Christians there and isolate japan from any outside influence.

You can't take religion in half measures, its a commitment and if your only going to take a little bit off the top, you might as well take that and ignore the rest. I would ask, what makes a person a bigot or against equality? Is it that they disagree with your particular position concerning marriage?

What gets lost in these discussions is that we fail to understand our opponent.

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18 / M / new york
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Posted 5/2/14

Iconodule wrote:


You do not know the religious mindset if you think this is possible. People have died for their faith, killed for their faith and given up all their earthly possessions for faith. You cannot simply organize religion into the simple categories of violent, non violent or fundamentalist or liberal, there's alot of nuance reflected in virtually every tradition. Who was the real Christian, Saint Anthony of the desert or Saint Constantine the Roman Emperor? Lets consider another example, that you can have peaceful Buddhists is a given in today's society, but you can also have the ancient Buddhists of japan in the 15th century who wielded incredible political and societal power and they used that to persecute the Christians there and isolate japan from any outside influence.

You can't take religion in half measures, its a commitment and if your only going to take a little bit off the top, you might as well take that and ignore the rest. I would ask, what makes a person a bigot or against equality? Is it that they disagree with your particular position concerning marriage?

What gets lost in these discussions is that we fail to understand our opponent.


maybe that wasn't the best way to put it. what my point was, religion can be something that you live your life by, that's perfectly fine however it shouldn't be taken literally to such an extent that you damn people to hell and assume you are always right because the bible is infallible.

a bigot isn't somebody who says "i don't agree with gay marriage". a bigot is somebody who says "gay people choose to be gay, and are in no place to demand special rights. the bible says so.". there is a difference. the first quote is from somebody who has an honest opinion. i may not agree with it, but if you have nothing against me because of who i am, then that's fine. the second quote is from somebody who is blinded by their religious beliefs to such an extent that they refuse to even attempt to understand the other side of the argument.
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20 / M / Cardiff,Wales
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Posted 5/2/14


Ah yes the equality debate, the debate that shall rage on forever as we slaughter each other for 'democracy' (Something that has only resulted in more failures than goods) and -non existing- 'freedom'. Yes, we should debate equality 24/7 and make a big massive fuss about it since we have so much spare times on our hands, no let's not bother tackling our contradictory political systems and governments that have to safeguard our completely 'justly' head of states whilst in Nazi-Germany Adolf Hitler was casually driving cars with no roof through crowds of hundreds of thousands of people, walking through crowds of millions and living dangerously close to battlefields. Yes this very irony is what plagues society, the fact that we are all so hypocritical and don't admit it, that is the root of all the issues.
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Posted 5/5/14 , edited 5/5/14
It really hurts me when someone is called a bigot just for stating their belief. I think it's beautiful when someone stands up for what they believe in, because they believe in something strong enough that their beliefs overpower what anyone could say in response. I'm gay and have grown up in a christian lifestyle, and plenty times I have heard people say, "God meant for love to be between a man and a woman, and that's how it should be." Now I'm not going to deny that it makes me a little sad since I usually hear this from friends, but is there any hatred in that sentence? No, there certainly is not. It's simply a firm belief. It's much different if the statement was along the lines of "God hates fags, so I hate them too." If you say that you hate someone because God hates someone, you certainly are not showing a christian attitude. Which brings me to my next point. When a person comes out as gay and the other person may say something like, "I'll be praying for you," is this bigotry? No, it is not. The person who is praying for you does not have any intentions to hurt you. All they want is to help with whatever problem they may see. In the end, it's all God's will.
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Posted 5/5/14
I think we should work to take the passion out of this debate. The sooner the Right drops the whole "JEEEEEEESSSSUUSSSS SAID SODOMIZIN' WUZ A SIYYYUNN" thing and the sooner the Left leaves its perpetual victim state (ie: Tumblr) the sooner we can reach an agreement.
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19 / M
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Posted 5/5/14


oh im not justifying my so called 'hatred' against gays by the bible or my religion, i dont give two shits if a guy come out of the closet and takes it up his ass, his choice nothing i can say or do that would change his mind. my point is, is that people should not be called bigots for opposing gay rights because it is completely uncalled for. as for the religious aspects of gays makes a lot of sense, men were not made to have sex with each other neither were women meant to.there parts are the same and they cant reproduce they can only IMITATE love. being gay has never made any sense to me at all, but because dont support them doest mean im a bigot or a cold hearted ass hole. and it seems to me you are ignorant of the bibles teachings everything in the bible has a lot more meaning than you know, yes there are parts in the bible that are sick and morbid but all a lesson like everything else.
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