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Is Bullying Justifiable?
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Posted 4/4/14
A better question would be "does bullying need to be justified?"

Posted 4/4/14

Sychop wrote:


GayAsianBoy wrote:

this woman in my workplace deserved to be bullied.

she broke down in tears after someone else criticized her performance and bad work ethics to the board's "committee", crying "foul play" and that she has "good work ethics and always helping others".

But in my opinion, she does exactly the same thing to other people, especially new people... accusing them of bad work ethics. so I was thinking in my head, "That's karma for you, what goes around comes around".


She's hypocritical, and I don't feel sorry for people who can't see their own flaws and only see flaws in others.


By accusing others of what they do wrong, some people try to justify their action and prevent scrutiny (or maybe even welcome scrutiny but mentally prevent people from taking action against them). It's like playing psychological games with people. It's a good thing that she got reported. Any further actions to make her suffer is not justifiable, either remove her from the situation or retrain her.



nah, nobody's tormenting her. most people there are nice, so nice that they barely speak about it in front of her face.

but you're absolutely right with that point. I don't think she's even doing it consciously, since she truly believes she's the victim. in my opinion, she's a pathological liar and probably even creating her own reality and seeing herself as the "good guy"... when in reality she's the bad guy. but it's too bad that she can't see that, and you can't reason with her about that. It's like trying to tell an insane person they're insane, but they keep claiming they're sane.

and I don't really involve myself in that drama, I'm just a third party observer... since I'm not a permanent staff there. but people there gossip to me about each other... it's so annoying, yet these people inspire me to create fictional characters of them in my future novel

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Posted 4/4/14
No. I don't think it can ever be justified.
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Posted 4/4/14

kingaiju wrote:

Why do people make topics like these?
I don't care if it's "for the sake of discussion", all they do is make opportunities for people to trivialize serious issues.


You don't understand. Bullying is a trivial matter.
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Posted 4/4/14

kingaiju wrote:

Why do people make topics like these?
I don't care if it's "for the sake of discussion", all they do is make opportunities for people to trivialize serious issues.


Please stay on topic for this discussion or do not comment. Thank you.
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Posted 4/4/14 , edited 4/4/14


I don't think you understood your own post...
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27 / M / Mor Dhona
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Posted 4/4/14
Nope, never ever. Bullying is all about exercising power, increasing one's social standing by picking on those below you. There is absolutely no way to justify this. It is, to a degree, natural behavior, but bullying doesn't really have a place in our modern world where even social outcasts can survive.


Sychop wrote:

Anyone on Putin's side after watching America and Europe huddle up to ostracize his country?


Erm... I don't think embargoes on Russia constitute bullying, especially since they've been imposed because Russia / Putin annexed a freakin' region. Consequently I am disappointed with humanity (or rather, the internet) for being more fixated on the appointed prosecutor general's cuteness.
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Posted 4/4/14

Well_Spoken_Man wrote:

No, if it's justifiable, it isn't bullying.


Well said.
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Posted 4/4/14 , edited 4/13/14
Lol this thread is still kicking
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49 / F / Center of the Uni...
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Posted 4/4/14 , edited 4/4/14

Well_Spoken_Man wrote:

No, if it's justifiable, it isn't bullying. Bullying is pure self gratification. Knocking someone down to make yourself feel better. I struggle to think of an instance where it would be OK to harm someone else for no reason other than self aggrandizement.

As for bullying on a global scale, I think that no, nations are too complex to apply such simple motives. For example, Russia didn't invade and annex Crimea to be bully. It was a cold blooded political calculation, much like the US invasion in Iraq or Western European inaction in the Balkans.


Sychop wrote:

Anyone on Putin's side after watching America and Europe huddle up to ostracize his country?


I've got to admire the man's balls. He has read the situation well, and he knows that nobody can really stop him at the moment. However, in general, annexing bits of sovereign countries through military action is not something I support.



Too be fair it's not a Hitler 1936 situation either. IF a US naval base that was as important to American interests as Sevastapol is to the Russians had been under similar threat from a newly hostile government,you can bet your lest dollar: There would have been troop movements and flag waving.

Also the Crimea is part of the Ukraine only because Kruschev (himself Ukrainian) reassigned the region while both countries were key parts of the soviet union.

and The people taking power in the Ukraine aren't necessarily champions of democracy peace and good will. Having already invoked Godwin's law I'll suggest the Nazi label can be applied to the more powerful (if less visible) movers and shakers of what's left of the Ukraine.

---

Is any of what I just said relevant? Well only in the sense that things are more complicated and nuanced than CNN and FOX were telling us.

When they weren't too busy discussing Angela Jolie's underwear or telling us exactly and repeatedly how much they don't know about the Malaysian airplane.

----

But I agree. If you can justify it, it isn't bullying it's ... enforcement? self Defense?... etc. Just like an supervisor at work raising legitimate operational concerns about your work performance isn't harassment. Or consensual sex isn't rape.



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22 / M / Norway, Oslo
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Posted 4/4/14
Taking out your issues on someone else to make yourself feel better can't be justified.
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Posted 4/4/14 , edited 4/4/14

papagolfwhiskey wrote:



Too be fair it's not a Hitler 1936 situation either. IF a US naval base that was as important to American interests as Sevastapol is to the Russians you can bet your lest dollar.

Also the Crimea is part of the Ukraine only because Kruschev (himself Ukrainian) reassigned the region while both countries were key parts of the soviet union.

and The people taking power in the Ukraine aren't necessarily champions of democracy peace and good will. Having already invoked Godwin's law I'll suggest the Nazi label can be applied to the more powerful (if less visible) movers and shakers of what's left of the Ukraine.

---

Is any of what I just said relevant. Well only in the sense that things are more complicated and nuanced than CNN and FOX were telling us.

When they weren't too busy discussing Angela Jolie's underwear or telling us exactly and repeatedly how much they don't know about the Malaysian airplane.


One of my favorite sayings is "If you have a simple solution to a problem, then you don't know enough about the problem." Things are rarely as black and white as people tend to see them.

To be completely callous about things, there are a few positives in all of this.

1. The EU hopefully just woke up and smelled the borsht . They've been very soft in their dealings with Putin and Russia over the last few years. This will hopefully serve as a wake up call that the bear is not all that friendly. (Probably not, but one can hope)

2. Ukraine is a hot mess in a very strategic part of the world (If you've ever played Risk, then you know ) Nothing says get your act together like having an aggressive neighbor.

3. NATO has lost nothing. Even if Ukraine became a member, the strategic point of interest remains the Turkish controlled Bosporus. All the former soviet republics NATO has been admitting are just buffer states anyway.

4. It will spur energy innovations in a part of the world that has a large number of very smart people. That's good for everybody, well maybe not Gazprom.
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Posted 4/4/14 , edited 4/4/14

Well_Spoken_Man wrote:


papagolfwhiskey wrote:

Too be fair it's not a Hitler 1936 situation either. IF a US naval base that was as important to American interests as Sevastapol is to the Russians you can bet your lest dollar.

Also the Crimea is part of the Ukraine only because Kruschev (himself Ukrainian) reassigned the region while both countries were key parts of the soviet union.

and The people taking power in the Ukraine aren't necessarily champions of democracy peace and good will. Having already invoked Godwin's law I'll suggest the Nazi label can be applied to the more powerful (if less visible) movers and shakers of what's left of the Ukraine.

---

Is any of what I just said relevant. Well only in the sense that things are more complicated and nuanced than CNN and FOX were telling us.

When they weren't too busy discussing Angela Jolie's underwear or telling us exactly and repeatedly how much they don't know about the Malaysian airplane.



To be completely callous about things, there are a few positives in all of this.

1. The EU hopefully just woke up and smelled the borsht . They've been very soft in their dealings with Putin and Russia over the last few years. This will hopefully serve as a wake up call that the bear is not all that friendly. (Probably not, but one can hope)

2. Ukraine is a hot mess in a very strategic part of the world (If you've ever played Risk, then you know ) Nothing says get your act together like having an aggressive neighbor.

3. NATO has lost nothing. Even if Ukraine became a member, the strategic point of interest remains the Turkish controlled Bosporus. All the former soviet republics NATO has been admitting are just buffer states anyway.

4. It will spur energy innovations in a part of the world that has a large number of very smart people. That's good for everybody, well maybe not Gazprom.


Yeah I think The EU is sharply reconsidering any policy or reliance of Putin controlled resources for their energy needs.
Good thing the US now get's most of it's oil from Canada. (when'd we join OPEC?... or would that be Oh-Puck?)

I think the EU may be learning ... AGAIN... the diplomacy is game of credit. and not having a military results in a low Equifax rating.

It sucks to be Ukraine in Risk more than almost any other country (maybe western Canada or one of the the larger African regions.)

It all sums up in the NA national interest (and probably China and the rest of Asia's too) as ... Nothing. and I don't see Obama or Harper sending in troops over sentimentality or wounded pride. I don't see sanctions costing much... nor being very effective.

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Posted 4/4/14 , edited 4/4/14

CoffeeGodEddy wrote:

After reading a good amount of posts, I'm seeing very similar things so I'm going to insert my backwards, cynical opinion:

I think if people asked themselves what's more important, social bullying or the millions of children worldwide dying of starvation, cholera, dehydration, or other horrible diseases, I think people would see the stupidity in how much they over-exaggerate bullying, hence the reason I made this thread.

When we think of bullying, we don't see the big picture. We think of tragic stories of the quiet kid, the socially awkward one, or maybe a really nice guy or girl that killed themself because of they were picked on by their peers. While this is truly tragic, we often avert our eyes to the fact of the good lifestyle they had. Call me cruel, but where is the appreciation for the luxuries they had? A roof, clean water, food, clothing, vaccinations & medicine, schooling, a stable government and economy - all luxuries we subconsciously indulge in yet still come out to have all these 1st world problems or trivial issues.

People preach kindness and treating others fairly, that doing harm to others is horrible, but I ask you, what are you doing for your global neighbors? Why are we fighting over issues such as homosexuality or legalized marijuana or bullying and not doing more to help others in need. It's going to take a whole lot more than donations to help. Donations are for giving yourself a guiltless conscience.

In reality, we are the bullies. While we indulge in carefree lifestyles filled with flat tires, broken windows, waiting in line for medicare, the guy who cut you off in traffic, gasoline going up, A/C breaking, the light bulb going out, the milk expiring, the boss that yells at you, the kids playing CoD all day, and bickering on Crunchyroll about what bullying is and isn't and how this is an extremely important issue, people are dying because of our self-indulgence. Where do we get most of the stuff we have? We don't have every resource we need and we sure as Hell don't make everything ourselves so where do we get it? Other countries at their own expense. Extort them for their resources, leave their country polluted, make their children labor long hours for little wage - that is where our lifestyle essentially comes from. You can disregard every word here or consider it. From an environmental standpoint, we are monsters.

So yes, I find this whole bullying controversy stupid as Hell. Again, why did I make this thread? To get you to think outside the box. To show that bullying is a whole lot more than what we exaggerate it to be.

I wanted people to think globally. I wanted people to expand upon their thoughts. I wanted people to challenge views and redefine them.

I asked if bullying is justifiable because we are the bullies. Can you justify your indulgent lifestyles? Can you justify the bullying you do to people around the world?

We cannot forget our countries' past actions either, but I won't go into detail of America's "justified" activities in the world throughout history, nor that of other countries. I leave that to the reader to make the connections. If you are not American, you know your history. If your country has not suppressed another country, extorted their resources, or act in any other malicious manner, then I have nothing more to say.

Thank you for reading. I look forward to feedback, whether it be positive, negative, or neutral.


What's your point? That there are bigger issues and injustices in the world than bullying?

There will always be injustice. As long as one person has something, another will not. That doesn't mean we don't try to do what's within our power to challenge the injustices right in front of us - things such as bullying. They make a bigger deal of it than must needs be, I'll admit, but things such as world hunger are beyond the average citizen's ability to solve.

Furthermore, I don't think it's fair to blame individuals for the problems of the society that created them. Yes, the average first-world citizen is excessively self-indulgent and consider non-life or death matters extremely important, but that's how they were raised to be. Corporations, and the capitalist system that created them, are a major component of injustice in the world - their goal is to amass as much money and resources as possible. That's it.

While nations may have been "bullies" in the past, and to a degree some still engage in actions that could be considered as such (e.g. Putin and Crimea, the Iraq War), the age of imperialism (on a national scale, at least) is supposed to be over.

In short - injustice exists, but if we can't fix the little problems, how can we ever hope to solve the big problems? Furthermore, it's more a fault of society than that of individuals if injustices such as the infamous starving children in Africa. The average individual cannot change that, and as long as corporations maintain their stranglehold over the nation, it never will.

Also can't be classified as conscious bullying, in my opinion, just ignorance towards the unintended and unwilling consequences of our actions.
Posted 4/4/14 , edited 4/4/14

CoffeeGodEddy wrote:

After reading a good amount of posts, I'm seeing very similar things so I'm going to insert my backwards, cynical opinion:



Thank you for reading. I look forward to feedback, whether it be positive, negative, or neutral.


Although I do not agree that a young boy or girl being pushed to the point of suicide is any simple or even normal matter, I do however get your point and it rings true to what I've posted towards someone over at another thread about "bigot" way of thinking or something.


Sychop wrote:


But gays are not at fault. Other groups currently largely neglected might have the same or more support in the future. I think I understand or maybe a little of it. From what I gather you're maybe not racist/homophobic but just frustrated at the public attention being focused on certain things while others remain covered up or unresolved because that's not what the public wants or cares about etc...


I think that there is a scale or curve that people find themselves on a spot within the curve. The beginning being the point where you are alerted to an issue and the end being the point where you are fed up about the attention the particular issue receives and at this point you are looking at more issues that appear of larger importance to you.

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