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Simulcast competition among companies
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Posted 4/10/14 , edited 4/10/14

axe8789 wrote:

i am actually curious about the whole simulcast bidding "war". Does anyone happen to know how it works?


These might help:

Part 1 http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/feature/2012-06-11
Part 2 http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/feature/2012-06-13
Part 3 http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/feature/2012-06-15



Sogno- wrote:

competition is good. unfortunately i have a lot of trouble of with Funi's streaming, about twice as much as i have on CR... even when i tried their free trial it was a pain. so looks like, at least for now, i'll miss out on some of this season's anime.


Funimation puts them on Hulu eventually after the initial "elite subscription" period. Probably to save costs of hosting. So you don't have to miss out but it wont be a simulcast if you don't get their subscription. Generally after about 2 or 3 weeks they load the episodes up on a 1 week delay like many other shows on hulu.


DRHILL wrote:

Competition is good as long as they make products available - Funmation for example is still not available in New Zealand.


CR seems to be grabbing the international rights while funi focuses mostly on the US region. It make sense since they are just starting and want to target the biggest consumer base.

I made a list of anime sites: http://www.crunchyroll.com/user/Assassinx89/pages/legalsites maybe one of them has it in your region.


Felstalker wrote:

Crunchyroll makes its profit on views and subscribers, offering deals and convienence over product.

As a smarter nerd than I once said. People dont think about price, only about how easily they can get what they want.

Also, if you don't want people to pirate it, offer it to them. Fansubs everywhere? BAAAAAH crunchyroll said! Have you subs done right and we'll remove the hastle! A little subscription and you get all you want every week. Not enough? Anime on you PS3 and vita too!

Its like they're bribing me into doing what I want.



I totally agree they made convience their model and it totally sucked me in too. Makes me so happy to have CR be a one stop for all my anime needs. Funi is ruining this though by scooping up some licenses.
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Posted 4/10/14 , edited 4/10/14

Rito2Ru wrote:

Increase competition is good for the consumers. It makes companies like Funi and CR work hard to provide more value for their service to entice new customers and keep old customers while keeping prices competitive with each other and not strangling our wallets.


Competition is good, but exclusivity deals are not.

Multiple services competing on a level playing field, with similar lineups but ocmpeting on quality and features? Now that is competition.

Fragmenting the market is not good. Especially if the shows you want end up on the service that doesn't suit you.
I fail to see how "Doesn't play on my gear", "Doesn't play in my region" or "My preferred service gets it elsewhere, but the inferior and more expensive service got it here" is in any way good for customers.
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Posted 4/11/14

Assassinx89 wrote:
CR seems to be grabbing the international rights while funi focuses mostly on the US region.


This is important. There are tons of anime / manga fans outside the U.S., as anybody here at CR can tell you, and this is a demographic that needs legitimate outlets. (If only video game companies had the same level of generosity ....) Hell, the reference book I use to look up shows from before the '90s was written by two Italian fans, and many of my hardcore buddies in giant robot fandom are from Latin America. (Why did the Tobikage project fail at Anime Sols? Possibly because not enough fans were aware of that project in the regions where Tobikage was most popular, i.e. Latin America.)
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Posted 4/11/14 , edited 4/11/14

TiggsPanther wrote:


Rito2Ru wrote:

Increase competition is good for the consumers. It makes companies like Funi and CR work hard to provide more value for their service to entice new customers and keep old customers while keeping prices competitive with each other and not strangling our wallets.


Competition is good, but exclusivity deals are not.

Multiple services competing on a level playing field, with similar lineups but ocmpeting on quality and features? Now that is competition.

Fragmenting the market is not good. Especially if the shows you want end up on the service that doesn't suit you.
I fail to see how "Doesn't play on my gear", "Doesn't play in my region" or "My preferred service gets it elsewhere, but the inferior and more expensive service got it here" is in any way good for customers.


I'm talking strictly from a CR vs Funi in the US point of view. This is due to both competing in the same market aka North America and usually providing enough shows on each side to warrant customers to look at both services.

Anime providers elsewhere in the world are playing the catch up game, these two are probably (most likely) the biggest two streamers anyway. Even at this point, Funi is playing catchup with CR in terms of quality online services. This is because of competition. They're trying to improve. At the same time, they can't let CR just get all of the shows easily. If they do, what's the point of driving traffic to their website if it's available elsewhere?
This can apply to whatever providers are in the UK. If they can't compete with CR in their current status, it's best to find ways to bring customers to their site while trying to improve over time. You can't do that if your service has only the exact same shows but it's not up to par in terms of quality. You'd be out of business.
If they're a startup anime streamer, I doubt they can bring quality from the get go and they'd be out of business if they're not given time to improve. Even CR a couple of years back wasn't that good at online either. So while exclusivity deals may seem to hurt customers, they might be the only reason some of these companies can keep sticking around.

* I will not say I am any sort of expert in any of these companies, especially the ones outside the US
If the companies you specify are in fact, not trying to change in any way after years and still grabbing exclusives, then that's a different story entirely.
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Posted 4/11/14

Rito2Ru wrote:
I'm talking strictly from a CR vs Funi in the US point of view. This is due to both competing in the same market aka North America and usually providing enough shows on each side to warrant customers to look at both services.


What I said works for the US, too. Especially this season.

I've seen comments from many Americans annoyed that non-English regions got a show on CR, but that Funi got the US rights. because, even as Americans, as CR subscribers this service worked for them in ways that Funimation just couldn't yet manage.

And, yes, it is always going to be a "problem" that is more evident when there are newcomers on the market. But for the actual customers, "losing" shows to an up-and-coming service that doesn't yet have the features a pre-existing one does will always seem like a bad thing.

Whether talking about Funimation, Animax, or any competing service in any country, is still sucks when a title is "Not On CR Over Here" (or "Not on CR At All").

Competing services with the same lineup, though, now that really gives a reason for the newer services to step up. With exclusivity, though, there is bound to be the temptation to rely on "We have shows you can only watch here" as a reason to keep customers, with no real reason to improve quickly.
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Posted 4/11/14

Assassinx89 wrote:


CR seems to be grabbing the international rights while funi focuses mostly on the US region. It make sense since they are just starting and want to target the biggest consumer base.



Wait... who is just starting out?


FUNi has been around since '94.


Unless we are talking about CR just starting out since they were only founded in '06 and only legal since '09.


I personally wouldn't consider either as just starting out, compared to some of the other stream sites now.
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Posted 4/11/14 , edited 4/11/14
But if all streaming sites had the same content, I'm not sure how to balance it. I feel like, almost randomly, the vast majority would shift to one "central" site and all the other streaming sites would become deserts.

Exclusivity deals are arbitrary, surely. They're more like a life-support measure than actual competition, like exclusive games on consoles. If you want to play it, you can't play it anywhere else, so you have to buy in.

I'd like a situation where we'd have multiple licensing companies, but all their videos would be on one mega-site with a single subscription fee which then splits the profits based on what each company brought to the table.

Although in that case I'm not sure how to enforce service quality on the mega-site since it'd have no competition.

/sigh
The Wise Wizard
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Posted 4/11/14

Rito2Ru wrote:

Even at this point, Funi is playing catchup with CR in terms of quality online services.

Funimation does have at least a couple of points where they are ahead of CR:

1. HD support on their mobile apps and Roku from the beginning. (As I recall, their Roku app was introduced in August 2012, and their mobile apps were around before that).

In contrast, CR is still at 480p on the Roku with HD finally coming "soon", while the Android app is stuck at 360p with no ETA on an HD capable version. Whether the iOS app does HD is something CR apparently can't agree on internal. BK has stated the app supports up to 1080p, but only 720p encodes are provide, while Bjaker has stated even after this that it is limited to 480p.

2. An HTML5 website player. (I haven't tested if this shows available on a PC without Flash installed, but it does on both my iPod Touch and Nook HD+, neither of which have Flash).

In contrast, I have not seen CR indicate any plans to provide an HTML5 web player.




Stonewolfe wrote:

Wait... who is just starting out?

FUNi has been around since '94.

Unless we are talking about CR just starting out since they were only founded in '06 and only legal since '09.

I personally wouldn't consider either as just starting out, compared to some of the other stream sites now.

I believe Assassinx89 was referring to their streaming service, where they are a newcomer compared to CR, not the company itself.

A bit of trivia: As a legal anime streaming service, TAN (theanimenetwork.com) is older than CR's 2009 changeover to a legit service. In fact, older than CR's first foray into legal simulcasting, which as I recall was the original Strike Witches series.

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Posted 4/11/14


Oh ok, I suppose that makes more sense then. Also another point FUNi has: Love em or Hate em, they are one of the bigger footholders from what I have seen in English Dub releases. There are others, but it seems FUNi gets more rights when it comes to English releases at least.

I also wasn't sure about any other sites other than CR and FUNi since those are the only 2 I use, and really have only been using for like a year and a half or so.
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Posted 4/11/14 , edited 4/11/14

Hairbelly wrote:


Rito2Ru wrote:

Increase competition is good for the consumers. It makes companies like Funi and CR work hard to provide more value for their service to entice new customers and keep old customers while keeping prices competitive with each other and not strangling our wallets.

Exactly. Competition is good.

The worst thing that could happen here is for Funi and Crunchyroll to merge. Better to have multiple companies competing for our money.


I think competition would be good for users only if the same shows could be aired by multiple providers though - in that way I'd choose the one that gives me the best offer. As it is now however the only service that there is competition for is "streaming anime", but if I want to watch, say, Jojo's Bizarre Adventure, I don't want to watch just "anime", I want to watch JJBA. Which means that I have to accept the terms of whoever holds the license rights. Hence, if I want to watch multiple shows, I need multiple subscriptions => bad for me, also considering how the providers can STILL charge me more based on the fact that they own for example the "one" show that's really hyped that season.

Plus having only one provider per show limits the size of the market - you can't realistically have as many providers as shows, and therefore you get stuff like Wakanim which was kind of a failure as it was born small, never took off and now seems to be dying (they didn't announce any shows this season). And don't forget that if shows are bade for and providers have to beat each other at getting them the price will rise (as there's more demand and the same offer) and this price increase will fall on the subscribers. On the other hand, if shows could be licensed to multiple providers, the price would have to be fixed for all because why should a provider pay more than the others?
The Wise Wizard
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Posted 4/11/14

TheGordianNot wrote:

I think competition would be good for users only if the same shows could be aired by multiple providers though - in that way I'd choose the one that gives me the best offer. As it is now however the only service that there is competition for is "streaming anime", but if I want to watch, say, Jojo's Bizarre Adventure, I don't want to watch just "anime", I want to watch JJBA. Which means that I have to accept the terms of whoever holds the license rights. Hence, if I want to watch multiple shows, I need multiple subscriptions => bad for me, also considering how the providers can STILL charge me more based on the fact that they own for example the "one" show that's really hyped that season.

A good example of what you want is Aniplex titles in the United States and Canada. In the US, you can watch them on CR, Daisuki, and Hulu. In Canada, on the first two. (Athough it should be noted a couple of those titles will be delayed by a month on Daisuki).

In contrast, Aniplex works exactly the opposite in the UK: Only one service gets the rights.
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Posted 4/11/14

TheAncientOne wrote:A good example of what you want is Aniplex titles in the United States and Canada. In the US, you can watch them on CR, Daisuki, and Hulu. In Canada, on the first two. (Athough it should be noted a couple of those titles will be delayed by a month on Daisuki).

In contrast, Aniplex works exactly the opposite in the UK: Only one service gets the rights.


Ah, interesting. Yes, I live in the UK, so that's how I perceive the situation here.

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Posted 4/11/14 , edited 4/11/14

Stonewolfe wrote:


Assassinx89 wrote:


CR seems to be grabbing the international rights while funi focuses mostly on the US region. It make sense since they are just starting and want to target the biggest consumer base.



Wait... who is just starting out?


FUNi has been around since '94.


Unless we are talking about CR just starting out since they were only founded in '06 and only legal since '09.


I personally wouldn't consider either as just starting out, compared to some of the other stream sites now.


Sorry I meant funimation is just starting with the online streaming and subscription service.
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