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The Funny Thing About Sword Art Online Is...
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Posted 4/16/14 , edited 4/16/14

Orga777 wrote:


cay032692 wrote:
Well matt you just said it, he had " the equation is there for him to be an OP badass. He had the beta experience, and started soloing right off the bat.", now Where are the others with this equation as well is what I was trying to get to :P, you cant tell me He was the ONLY one within that beta that used it to its fullest, Thats like me only acknowledging one of the Method members or Blood legion members within old school WoW who were given secluded beta guild passes and OPed the fuck out of WoW when the patch was released. For there to be no equal was very ehhh, Now if he had been a genius ALONG with all the the previous skills, or atleast something that defined him above others then the path they took in showing why Kirito is god mode is without a doubt acceptable, but instead he was just another regular hardcore gamer and you cannot tell me there is a limited amount of those in the eastern(asian) server region xD. But that is just not the case, he only has a simple equation which many others within the game had, and having "HEART" shouldn't be his true or only driving point in a game that allows him to break its logic completly.


They covered this. Nobody got further in the Beta than Kirito and most were beginners in VRMMOs. All the other BETTER players were non-beta testers for the most part. Asuna, Klein, Agil, etc. Most of the clearing party were on level of Kirito in some lway. Most just lacked his reaction time, which is REALLY what made him OP. Only the fastest reaction timed player can get Duel-Wield, hence Kirito being OP. A bunch of players, however, DID do what Kirito did, clearing early levels in order to get ahead of everything else. This was even said in the anime in episode 2! As for a rival for Kirito's level... did we really need that? The story was not really about humans fighting humans as much as humans trying to live through an insane ordeal. If you want people on equal terms with Kirito when it comes to fighting, then wait for the second series in the anime. You will be GETTING one. :/


LOL, my god its been so long I forgot about the reaction time skill as well xD, that does help but ehhh. I dont need a rival but equals that exist within the world, reaction skills beyond insane levels are a dime a dozen to the hardcore mmo players.
Also don't mean to bust your bubble read the LN's pass the Phatom Bullet Arc :P, and Kinda wanted to stay way from spoiling anything, but for you just a little rebuttle again this equal is another glorification Kirito, and whats worst its another push for Kirito's undying faithfulness.

Side Note: I hope you dnt think I am looking down on SAO? I could sense some saltiness, it was great/ fantastic even, I was replying back to a buddy who just called it masterpiece, which the series just hasn't hit yet, great but not that level.
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Posted 4/16/14

LoomyTheBrew wrote:

Also I can't think of one relationship in Log Horizon, .hack, or most Shounen animes that was as intriguing as the relationship between Kirito and Asuna. Not one. It was very powerful relationship that blows many Shounen romances out of the water. It actually shows the relationship progress and go somewhere, unlike in most Shounens. None of the typical bullshit where everyone holds in their feelings till the last second.


I think the word you are looking for is cheesy. No, I kid, I kid.

Yeah, most Shonen relationships go no where, I will agree with that. Most shonen aren't about relationships though, they are about battle and they try to focus on that. The few exceptions are the romance ones like Ichigo 100% and Nisekoi. Even ToLoveRu has the problem of having like zero romantic progression, and it's a romance manga.

Now personally, one of my favorite romances, or rather 3 of my favorite romances come from Bakuman. #1 I love Kaya, Kaya was an awesome female character, I think she definitely even out-shined Azuki. Definitely would have wanted her as my wife. #2 Azuki x Mashiro, it was cheesy as all hell, but I admire Azuki's (figurative) balls, I really did not think a heroine could be so bold and rational at the same time. #3 Hiramaru and Aoki, as pathetic as he seemed some times , Hiramaru was just an awesome guy, it was heart warming watching him.

I'd personally take a Shuujin x Kaya romance any day over an Asuna x Kirito one... It was just so simple.
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Posted 4/16/14

cay032692 wrote:


Nah man, I totally respect your opinion. And to be fair, I think you're actually right on most points.

While I consider SAO a masterpiece I'm still very aware of the flaws and mishaps, but when it came to entainment value I've never been so memesoized by a show before than SAO. I thought maybe I was just thought my fanboy goggles were on when I was first going through it, but I watched it again and again and I still feel the same way about it. I could literally watch SAO till the end of time and I don't think I would get tired of it. Even though I know it's not perfect when it comes to the reality of things, I liked a lot of the things it did and that's why I like it so much and consider it a 10/10.

It may seem unfair that push the score up to a 10/10, but I just find it so awesome that I don't know what else to give it.

Anyways, I'm going to analyze some of your points:

Kirito has no equal. This is the biggest issue to me. If there were other people like Kirito that were ridiculously strong and could do a lot of the things he could do, I think his character would have been more awesome. Like, what if there were multiple people with special skills? That way they could have harnessed all their powers to beat the game. Also the fact that Kirito is the god of the game is a little like, "Really?" I love Kirito and all, but it is a little weird that he's the only one of his kind.

Also ya, side characters should have been dived a little deeper into. I think this would have been fixed if they showed more of what happened within those two years. We probably would have been able to learn more about them. Though we did get a general idea of who they were, but it just didn't go that deep.

And all those girls falling in love with him was a little much. I understand why Asuna did, but all the other girls just didn't spend as much time with Kirito to really get to know him. Then again, they're all teenagers and they're all raging with emotions. But then again this comes back to Kirito with no equal. Maybe if there were more strong characters, Ami and some of the other girls would have had more options to fall in love with people.

And the second arc, like Orga777 pointed out was probably rushed. Though, I think whole idea of Asuna being a dasmel in distress was just not a good idea to begin with.

I would have preferred Asuna being stuck in the game, but also being able fight along side Kirito for her freedom. That would have been more awesome because Asuna wouldn't of had to dumbed down and if anything it would have been even more painful for Kirito. The person he loves so close, but yet so far away.

Or I would have liked it if the roles were changed. Maybe Kirito was stuck in the game and Asuna had to save him. That way we could of had more insight on Asuna's life and maybe Asuna and Sugu would have been become better friends.

And Sugou should have been fleshed out more. If anything, they should have made him even more crazy and disgusting. Show us background of all the terrible things he's done to girls in the past and more, to give us background on how fucked up he is.

Anyways even though I know SAO could have been even better, I still hold it up so highly because I liked it for what was and things it did do right. I could talk all day about the "would of, should of, could of" but I'm still very content with how SAO is. It's still a 10/10 for me.


MKingman wrote:

Haha, in all fairness the equation is there for him to be an OP badass. He had the beta experience, and started soloing right off the bat. Other people joining guilds and whatnot because they were afraid to die would have had to share XP and items from the get-go. I'm sort of glad they didn't show him solo-grinding in the woods to boost his level, lol.

I enjoyed SAO quite a bit, simply because I felt it was well rounded. For me it was an anime jack of all trades, but king of nothing. Despite the hangups with the second season and questionable villains, at the end of the day, I was invested in Kirito and Asuna, so I was able to enjoy the show. If you weren't convinced about those two, the show would totally fall apart, lol.

On a final note I don't seem to be as disappointed in the second season as most. I really wish they had spent less time in that fairy game though, lol. To me the whole point of the second season was to explore what it would be like to be to have had such immense power one moment, and absolutely none the next. Becoming just another kid in the world after being a hero and a savior to so many would be pretty devastating, especially when the person you fought so much for as a hero was one of the only people you didn't save. If the second season spent more time focusing on that aspect in the real world, I think it would have been a lot more successful. I sort of inferred that premise when I watched the second season, and enjoyed it enough accordingly; it's certainly not as good as the first, though, and easily could have been taken in a much more interesting direction.

Cheers,
-Matt


I absolutely agree with you. This how I look at SAO as well for the most part.
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Posted 4/16/14 , edited 4/16/14

LoomyTheBrew wrote:

Nah man, I totally respect your opinion. And to be fair, I think you're actually right on most points.

While I consider SAO a masterpiece I'm still very aware of the flaws and mishaps, but when it came to entainment value I've never been so memesoized by a show before than SAO. I thought maybe I was just thought my fanboy goggles were on when I was first going through it, but I watched it again and again and I still feel the same way about it. I could literally watch SAO till the end of time and I don't think I would get tired of it. Even though I know it's not perfect when it comes to the reality of things, I liked a lot of the things it did and that's why I like it so much and consider it a 10/10.



And this is why you are Cool :D...Nothing wrong with having your own masterpiece category, said that initially :P
EVERYTHING excluding the maths and sciences are all subjective when it comes down to it xD
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Posted 4/16/14

cay032692 wrote:
LOL, my god its been so long I forgot about the reaction time skill as well xD, that does help but ehhh. I dont need a rival but equals that exist within the world, reaction skills beyond insane levels are a dime a dozen to the hardcore mmo players.


Remember this. VRMMOs were still new technology and most were not used to them yet. Kirito got into them probably as they were first released and had a leg up on most competition in that regard.


Also don't mean to bust your bubble read the LN's pass the Phatom Bullet Arc :P, and Kinda wanted to stay way from spoiling anything, but for you just a little rebuttle again this equal is another glorification Kirito, and whats worst its another push for Kirito's undying faithfulness.


I have to disagree with that assessment. What happened in GGO was not just for glorification of Kirito's character. Who he fought there gave him VERY bad memories and brought to light many demons Kirito has been going through since the SAO incident ended. Remember this; he didn't even talk to his own family about what happened inside the game in detail, and the only person he told in any significant detail to was Kikuoka, who he HAD to tell. What we got in GGO was facing down demons and never letting the past drag you down into the damn pit. Kirito overcoming that is actually a good thing, since the lessons taught in the arc are very proper considering who the enemies are and how they act.


Side Note: I hope you dnt think I am looking down on SAO? I could sense some saltiness, it was great/ fantastic even, I was replying back to a buddy who just called it masterpiece, which the series just hasn't hit yet, great but not that level.


Which is fair. It isn't so much saltiness, though. Hard to tell over the interwebs, though. These things are always best left in person so there is less confusion on intent. XD
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I like to compare SAO to Star Wars (for good and for ill). It's visually stunning, the action is amazing, it hit's ALL of the buttons that a teen has, it's really effective at being an almost overwhelming entertainment, especially on the first viewing.

It's also shallow, poorly thought out, the characters are cardboard cutouts, and the plotting is embarrassing.

-- Actaully Avatar would be a good example too.


So, I think it's fine to love SAO and enjoy it for what it is, but not pretend it's something it's not.

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idk why people hate it so much, i like it. sure it could've done more but hey it was great still. nice to see a new argument of why you have a issue with it. got tired of people saying oh the incest oh the rape scene,oh the second half
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Posted 4/16/14
Great points! I for one really enjoyed it.
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Posted 4/16/14

ShogunRay wrote:

idk why people hate it so much, i like it. sure it could've done more but hey it was great still. nice to see a new argument of why you have a issue with it. got tired of people saying oh the incest oh the rape scene,oh the second half


The wincest added points to my final score for it
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Posted 4/16/14

MKingman wrote:

PS, just finished Elfen Lied. Between Elfen Lied, SAO, and Nagi no Asukara, I'm getting really sick of the cousin-love thing. It's starting to creep me out how commonly and casually incest is written in unnecessarily.

The "cousin-love thing" is written in casually because relationships between cousins isn't incest in Japan. (In fact, the same is true in a good number of states in the US, but here there is the popular perception of such relationships as incestuous).

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Posted 4/16/14 , edited 4/16/14

windsagio wrote:
It's also shallow, poorly thought out, the characters are cardboard cutouts, and the plotting is embarrassing.

-- Actaully Avatar would be a good example too.


So, I think it's fine to love SAO and enjoy it for what it is, but not pretend it's something it's not.


You say this, though, as if everyone should see SAO the same way as you. What it is to you, may not be what it is to someone else. For you it may seem shallow and the characters might be too generic, but for me it was not. I agree the pacing and some moments were poorly planned out, but other than that it delivered a positive core message I found appealing. I find the story in Aincrad pretty darn compelling. The development of Kirito and Asuna from being self absorbed, with a survival of the fittest mentality, to caring about other people was a major theme that I found moving and relatable. I found it very much a coming of age story, but in a more dire situation than normal life. The death game necessitates they make major life decisions quickly, and the ramifications of those decisions are a burden they struggle with until they come to a place of acceptance with themselves and their flaws.

On the outside Kirito and Asuna may appear outgoing and strong at first glance, but inwardly they are bitter and broken. They both have trust issues and family issues that many viewers may relate with from their own teen years. Kirito even touches on the fact you can lose your self to the game if you think what you do inside it does not affect who you are outside. He learns this fact the hard way because he believes the lie at first and goes down that path only to find it a dead end. Asuna was his light out of despair just as much as he was hers. They both helped each other realize the value of life and the importance of how they treat others regardless of the setting.

I was not a fan of them using the sister/cousin trope for Suguha, but she did act as a major catalyst in the second arc for much of Kirito's introspection and ultimate maturation. At its core SAO is a story about bonds and friendship to me. Kirito does not value companionship or family at the start, but ultimately learns you need not be blood related to have a meaningful relationship with someone.


I'll give you Sugou being a cardboard cut out, however, as his motivations appear pretty shallow with no back story to them; though, sadly, people like him do exist in this world. And that was kind of the point of his character, to contrast with the matured version of Kirito who values others and does not seek to exploit them for personal gain. It was a bit too extreme of a contrast, though, and I'd agree Sugou should have been introduced with more subtlety than him being straight up deranged for no apparent reason.
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Posted 4/16/14

cay032692 wrote:

And this is why you are Cool :D...Nothing wrong with having your own masterpiece category, said that initially :P
EVERYTHING excluding the maths and sciences are all subjective when it comes down to it xD


Heh heh, thank you!

And I'm glad you understand!


sonic720 wrote:


windsagio wrote:
It's also shallow, poorly thought out, the characters are cardboard cutouts, and the plotting is embarrassing.

-- Actaully Avatar would be a good example too.


So, I think it's fine to love SAO and enjoy it for what it is, but not pretend it's something it's not.


You say this, though, as if everyone should see SAO the same way as you. What it is to you, may not be what it is to someone else. For you it may seem shallow and the characters might be too generic, but for me it was not. I agree the pacing and some moments were poorly planned out, but other than that it delivered a positive core message I found appealing. I find the story in Aincrad pretty darn compelling. The development of Kirito and Asuna from being self absorbed, with a survival of the fittest mentality, to caring about other people was a major theme that I found moving and relatable. I found it very much a coming of age story, but in a more dire situation than normal life. The death game necessitates they make major life decisions quickly, and the ramifications of those decisions are a burden they struggle with until they come to a place of acceptance with themselves and their flaws.

On the outside Kirito and Asuna may appear outgoing and strong at first glance, but inwardly they are bitter and broken. They both have trust issues and family issues that many viewers may relate with from their own teen years. Kirito even touches on the fact you can lose your self to the game if you think what you do inside it does not affect who you are outside. He learns this fact the hard way because he believes the lie at first and goes down that path only to find it a dead end. Asuna was his light out of despair just as much as he was hers. They both helped each other realize the value of life and the importance of how they treat others regardless of the setting.

I was not a fan of them using the sister/cousin trope for Suguha, but she did act as a major catalyst in the second arc for much of Kirito's introspection and ultimate maturation. At its core SAO is a story about bonds and friendship to me. Kirito does not value companionship or family at the start, but ultimately learns you need not be blood related to have a meaningful relationship with someone.


I'll give you Sugou being a cardboard cut out, however, as his motivations appear pretty shallow with no back story to them; though, sadly, people like him do exist in this world. And that was kind of the point of his character, to contrast with the matured version of Kirito who values others and does not seek to exploit them for personal gain. It was a bit too extreme of a contrast, though, and I'd agree Sugou should have been introduced with more subtlety than him being straight up deranged for no apparent reason.



Couldn't have said it better myself. You literally nailed it.
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Posted 4/16/14
I enjoyed SAO as well. 7/10 anime
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Posted 4/16/14

TheAncientOne wrote:
The "cousin-love thing" is written in casually because relationships between cousins isn't incest in Japan. (In fact, the same is true in a good number of states in the US, but here there is the popular perception of such relationships as incestuous).



Interesting. It's good to have that solidified as it was never quite clear whether or not it was meant to be taboo. I wonder what the common perception is in Japan, and if there isn't still a stigma attached to relationships with cousins??

*sigh*…it's still a bit creepy though :P. That may be culturally insensitive, but I'm half Japanese so I have a bit of a get-out-of-jail-free card, lol.

Cheers,
-Matt
xxJing 
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Posted 4/16/14 , edited 4/16/14

MKingman wrote:


TheAncientOne wrote:
The "cousin-love thing" is written in casually because relationships between cousins isn't incest in Japan. (In fact, the same is true in a good number of states in the US, but here there is the popular perception of such relationships as incestuous).



Interesting. It's good to have that solidified as it was never quite clear whether or not it was meant to be taboo. I wonder what the common perception is in Japan, and if there isn't still a stigma attached to relationships with cousins??

*sigh*…it's still a bit creepy though :P. That may be culturally insensitive, but I'm half Japanese so I have a bit of a get-out-of-jail-free card, lol.

Cheers,
-Matt


From what I have seen, it seems like some people accept it, others don't. So 50/50. It's more of a traditional social taboo than anything else though. I remember reading that genetically it is only a slight increase in complications. However it does become a problem if it gets repeated.

By that I mean that, let's say A and B are first cousins, they have a child C. C marries his first cousin D. Even though A and B are technically first cousins and so are C and D, C and D have a thicker blood relationship than A and B. If this goes down the line far enough, it could become dangerous. So essentially it's a snowball effect, or sort of like compounded incest. There is a formula to determine just how much of a negative effect it can actually have, but I'd need to research it a bit more to actually say anything more. The real complication is though that there are some genes with negative effects that don't necessarily show unless both parents possess those genes, so incest essentially increases the probability that genes with negative properties will become prevalent.

All in all, healthier children are born from parents with a wider variety of genes. So it's probably best to try to find someone you are not related to. That said, I wouldn't go around ostracizing people for having a relationship with anyone as long as it wasn't dysfunctional, by that I mean domestic violence of course.
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