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Mentally challenged kid taken to court for wire tapping!?
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Posted 4/17/14

superbanjo65 wrote:

Unfortunately, according to Pennyslvania State Law, recording of conversations is only lawful when every party involved in said conversation gives consent to the recording. The wording isn't exactly clear, however, most likely leading to this controversy.

"The law does not cover oral communications when the speakers do not have an 'expectation that such communication is not subject to interception under circumstances justifying such expectation'". My source here goes on "Therefore, you may be able to record in-person conversations occurring in a public place without consent ... However you should always get the consent of all parties before recording any conversation that common sense tells you is private."

So what this whole deal sounds like to me is just the school / school district doing the usual school district thing and covering their asses trying to prevent themselves from being on the defendant side of a lawsuit. Does that make it right? No, of course not, But i just sort of find it shocking that the Department of Education pours so much money into anti-bullying campaigns, slogans, assemblies, and posters lining the halls only to take this sort of action. I don't know, maybe I'm crazy.



So undercover recordings by police officers are illegal in Pennsylvania?

This is an insanely stupid law. What about recording of video?
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Posted 4/17/14 , edited 4/17/14
WTF is the bullied kid supposed to do? If nobody listens to him, he does the logical thing and records evidence... then he's punished for it?
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Posted 4/17/14 , edited 4/17/14

bathroom64 wrote:

He broke the law though didn't he? There could have been other ways to go about solving the problem right?


There are so many stupid laws in the books (some from more than a century ago)... most of us probably break the law everyday without knowing it. We trust the law enforcement system to exercise common sense and not press charges for stupid reasons. Until 2003, it was illegal in Georgia to have premarital sex. Did law enforcement arrest couples for breaking the law?
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Posted 4/17/14

otakurocklee wrote:
There are so many stupid laws in the books (some from more than a century ago)... most of us probably break the law everyday without knowing it. We trust the law enforcement system to exercise common sense and not press charges for stupid reasons. Until 2003, it was illegal in Georgia to have premarital sex. Did law enforcement arrest couples for breaking the law?

Yea, you are right. I kinda wish people would stop quoting me for this already. Feels like I'm being bullied. Oh, the irony!
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Posted 4/17/14
And this is why I'm teaching my kids self-defense.

If my children are getting bullied, I am making sure they're taking the bullies down with them. Because you can also get in trouble for doing nothing, as well as actually telling people about it. The law over here in "The Land of the Free" is fucking bullshit.

So if my kids are gonna be fucked with, might as well teach them to dish out some punishment as well. I'd have no problem homeschooling them if it came down to it.
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Posted 4/17/14

Zachman wrote:

And this is why I'm teaching my kids self-defense.

If my children are getting bullied, I am making sure they're taking the bullies down with them. Because you can also get in trouble for doing nothing, as well as actually telling people about it. The law over here in "The Land of the Free" is fucking bullshit.

So if my kids are gonna be fucked with, might as well teach them to dish out some punishment as well. I'd have no problem homeschooling them if it came down to it.


That'll certainly prove useful BUT in this situation self-defence wouldn't have worked. Not only were the bullies only using verbal abuse and not physically trying to attack him, but at the time he decided to take action and make the recording he was in a classroom, so if he did physically attack them he'd of undoubtedly been done for as well, because he would have physically attacked them on school grounds without them trying to attack him, and it wouldn't really be seen as self-defence. The article also states he has behavioural problems so teaching him to fight could prove problematic.
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Posted 4/17/14

BLACKOUTMK2 wrote:


Zachman wrote:

And this is why I'm teaching my kids self-defense.

If my children are getting bullied, I am making sure they're taking the bullies down with them. Because you can also get in trouble for doing nothing, as well as actually telling people about it. The law over here in "The Land of the Free" is fucking bullshit.

So if my kids are gonna be fucked with, might as well teach them to dish out some punishment as well. I'd have no problem homeschooling them if it came down to it.


That'll certainly prove useful BUT in this situation self-defence wouldn't have worked. Not only were the bullies only using verbal abuse and not physically trying to attack him, but at the time he decided to take action and make the recording he was in a classroom, so if he did physically attack them he'd of undoubtedly been done for as well, because he would have physically attacked them on school grounds without them trying to attack him, and it wouldn't really be seen as self-defence. The article also states he has behavioural problems so teaching him to fight could prove problematic.


And what I was trying to point out is my kids will only respond when provoked first, in a physical confrontation. If it's verbal, well I'm quite the wordsmith so I can solve that.

I'm a pacifist by nature and a victim of bullying. I was punished for saying nothing, and punished for saying something. So I'm of the mindset that it's something that you have to fight against. My kids will fight fire with fire. They wanna punch my kid? Like me, my kids will n no longer be pacifists when hands are involved. They want to insult my kids? That's nothing I can't teach them to deal with because I was brutal as a kid and even now I still have that mouth on me.

Bullying is a matter people need to start learning to deal with themselves. We live in an irresponsible era, where blame is passed around like AIDS, and victims receive punishment in place of the evil-doers.

I refuse to continue to let these behaviors perpetuate which is why when I have kids I am giving them the necessary tools to deal with it. It's only gonna get worse in the twenty or so years I'll be waiting before I have kids.

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Posted 4/17/14

Zachman wrote:


BLACKOUTMK2 wrote:


Zachman wrote:

And this is why I'm teaching my kids self-defense.

If my children are getting bullied, I am making sure they're taking the bullies down with them. Because you can also get in trouble for doing nothing, as well as actually telling people about it. The law over here in "The Land of the Free" is fucking bullshit.

So if my kids are gonna be fucked with, might as well teach them to dish out some punishment as well. I'd have no problem homeschooling them if it came down to it.


That'll certainly prove useful BUT in this situation self-defence wouldn't have worked. Not only were the bullies only using verbal abuse and not physically trying to attack him, but at the time he decided to take action and make the recording he was in a classroom, so if he did physically attack them he'd of undoubtedly been done for as well, because he would have physically attacked them on school grounds without them trying to attack him, and it wouldn't really be seen as self-defence. The article also states he has behavioural problems so teaching him to fight could prove problematic.


And what I was trying to point out is my kids will only respond when provoked first, in a physical confrontation. If it's verbal, well I'm quite the wordsmith so I can solve that.

I'm a pacifist by nature and a victim of bullying. I was punished for saying nothing, and punished for saying something. So I'm of the mindset that it's something that you have to fight against. My kids will fight fire with fire. They wanna punch my kid? Like me, my kids will n no longer be pacifists when hands are involved. They want to insult my kids? That's nothing I can't teach them to deal with because I was brutal as a kid and even now I still have that mouth on me.

Bullying is a matter people need to start learning to deal with themselves. We live in an irresponsible era, where blame is passed around like AIDS, and victims receive punishment in place of the evil-doers.

I refuse to continue to let these behaviors perpetuate which is why when I have kids I am giving them the necessary tools to deal with it. It's only gonna get worse in the twenty or so years I'll be waiting before I have kids.



A very fair reply that I can agree with. I was subject to bullying at times in school as well, though my brother gets it way worse. It would've proven useful for me to know how to fight, but unfortunately I, too, am a pacifist. I think the thing that really put me off throwing a punch was, it's not like meeting some random jack-off in the street and if you did, say, throw a punch, you'd likely never see them again. The problem is that you can likely have to stick around that person for multiple years. I've even seen it create a negative atmosphere around victims who dish out the hurt, since some people come to fear them and try to avoid them (my best friend was one of those people). When it does come down to violence, both parties are going to lose in some way, and that's a shame, because bullies are the only ones who should have to suffer.
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Posted 4/17/14

flamedance58 wrote:

Evidence has to be obtained legally.

If I broke into someone's house and stole a book that shows he's working with the Mafia then that evidence is considered illegal and cannot be used in a court of law.

If I noticed the guy has been suspicious and there's guys in Mafia-ish coats coming to his house every Thursday and I tell the police and they get a warrant and find that book, then it's legally obtained.

Yes, it sucks that the kid got in trouble himself but recording things in a public space where privacy is expected then you're in trouble. That's why it's very tricky for some schools, colleges, and universities to set up security cameras around the courtyards cause though the cams might catch sexual assaults, thefts, etc...it also might catch couples making out,etc.


Do I believe the kid deserved to be punished? No, they should of told him that recording suchs things in a school isn't allowed and is illegal, tossed out the evidence and then just asked the kid to tell them that the other kid is bullying him and go from there. Honestly, even if he's mentally challenged he should still be able to say "Mommy! Billy is bullying me!".


Is there any chance you're a lawyer? I actually learn something from your post.

I have a jury duty this whole week till the next and I asked one of the jurors, who's a lawyer as an occupation, about this case and he said the same thing as you said. He felt uneasy about the bullying part though.
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Posted 4/17/14
Hah wish I was.

No, I'm actually in school for management positions in the Hospitality industry.

However, we do have to take some law because of things you have to consider. While I claim nothing to the point of being a lawyer or well versed in the law I do know some basics.

The case itself is a bit funny but evidence still has to be legally obtained. Depending on where you are, what country, state, province, city,etc the idea of "expected privacy" is different. Some expect that whatever said in a church's confessionary to be between you and God, other places say that if you're a mass murderer then the Priest should tell police. Other are okay with cameras in high schools while others don't.

This case is quite controversial in a few ways and I understand why in 5 pages no one can really say 100% what was right and what was wrong as unless someone here is a trained lawyer and has the transcripts of the entire hearing it's really hard for anyone of us despite our beliefs to really say whether this or that was done 100% by law and not just because we feel this is right or wrong.
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Posted 4/17/14
shit like this is why we have a jury in this country, to be able to say, 'no even tho the law was broken, its still not wrong'.
jury nullification.
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Posted 4/18/14
Half these comments disgust me, this is why humans suck.

Seriously half of you are bitching about profanity!? You have already conformed to your own biases. The content of the message not the person providing the coverage, his habits, or anything else matters. When I have to explain this to your people, you have already proven just how far you've fallen. There is no such thing as justice in government. Government is the very definition of corruption, they toss around the word justice often, but they don't give a damn about it.
Something has to be done about this. I'd take this case to the Supreme Court and have all those assholes laid off, they can then go live in their tide boxes or rot in prison for this kind of crap. That is just sickening, he was a mentally disabled child being attacked and abused by his peers. He tried going to his teacher who did nothing, he did everything he could as a student even going so far as to get proof of what they were doing and the principal calls the cops and then he is convicted for it! Anyone who thinks this is acceptable has no conscience and is the garbage that taints this world. And bathroom64 is a prime example of someone who has some very surface level view of ethics with not one damn thought going on beneath that.

Government has been corrupt since inception and defending laws and claiming them to be acts of justice is the pinnacle of being a sheep. Learn to think for yourselves people, learn some empathy! How long will be people stand by and just accept this crap, before long the streets will run red with the blood of the innocent and no one will do a damn thing.
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Posted 4/19/14
Did he tell his mom? If that was my son everyone involved would be sweating blood and the school and bullies family would be paying DEARLY.
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Posted 4/19/14 , edited 4/19/14

Izual wrote:

Half these comments disgust me, this is why humans suck.

Seriously half of you are bitching about profanity!? You have already conformed to your own biases. The content of the message not the person providing the coverage, his habits, or anything else matters. When I have to explain this to your people, you have already proven just how far you've fallen. There is no such thing as justice in government. Government is the very definition of corruption, they toss around the word justice often, but they don't give a damn about it.
Something has to be done about this. I'd take this case to the Supreme Court and have all those assholes laid off, they can then go live in their tide boxes or rot in prison for this kind of crap. That is just sickening, he was a mentally disabled child being attacked and abused by his peers. He tried going to his teacher who did nothing, he did everything he could as a student even going so far as to get proof of what they were doing and the principal calls the cops and then he is convicted for it! Anyone who thinks this is acceptable has no conscience and is the garbage that taints this world. And bathroom64 is a prime example of someone who has some very surface level view of ethics with not one damn thought going on beneath that.

Government has been corrupt since inception and defending laws and claiming them to be acts of justice is the pinnacle of being a sheep. Learn to think for yourselves people, learn some empathy! How long will be people stand by and just accept this crap, before long the streets will run red with the blood of the innocent and no one will do a damn thing.


I think the problem is the way society treats those with disabilities, especially the non-visible ones like this kid's learning disability. I have a son who is similar, with the same processing speed issues, ADD, and Asperger's syndrome. He looks "normal", in fact he is good looking, but behaves and reacts oddly like he doesn't know the proper response. He is brilliant, and does school work at a normal level (all A's and B's) but at an extremely slow speed (processing speed disorder). It is like trying to get on the Internet via a supercomputer with dial up Internet. They also fail to think completely through to the consequences of their actions and are single minded, they cannot keep in mind more than one task at a time. That boy should have never been charged. Because these children look "normal" and in reality many people do not believe that they really have a disability other than their doctors, parents, and therapists, they are treated badly and unfairly. (Idiots) society and school systems seem to think that it is only a matter of discipline or that because the condition is unknown to them, that it is made up.

Another issue is that when someone mentions mental disability people automatically assume all persons that fall under this category are, for lack of a better word, mentally retarded, which isn't true at all and they end up being treated abysmally. Regardless, Nobody, no matter what disability they have should be treated that way.
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Posted 4/19/14 , edited 4/19/14
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