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Sony sold Square Enix
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20 / M / Sweden
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Posted 4/16/14
So apparently Sony have sold all of it's shares in Square Enix (about 8%) that they've had in the company since the early 2000.

http://www.dualshockers.com/2014/04/16/sony-computer-entertainment-sells-all-its-square-enix-shares-for-4-8-billion-yen/

So what are your take on this?


Before anyone says anything about exclusives! If Sony wants them to make PS exclusives then they'll pay them right up... 8% isn't that much anyways and won't cover for a exclusive.



If I'm gonna be completely honest then I understand why they sold them... Because let's be honest here! Sony's TV devision isn't doing so well and they expect loss of around 1.1 billion $ in net worth this year alone from just the TV devision of the company. On top of that Square Enix as a whole hasn't been doing so well the last couple of years either.

http://www.gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2013/08/06/square-enix-reports-1-6-billion-in-extraordinary-loss-during-first-fiscal-quarter.aspx

However Square Enix is currently recovering from their losses thanks to successful selling numbers for Bravely Defaults and Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn

But on the other hand Sony is also recovering from their losses whit more then expected selling figures on their mobile and tablet devision (Sony Mobile Communications) as well as their gaming devision (Sony Computer Entertainment) that now boasts 60% of the companies revenue. (couldn't find a source but I remember seeing it somewhere!)
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Posted 4/16/14
Umm.. my childhood friend does my stocks.
Me? I just play music and write code.

On a serious note, check the historical data for both companies (www.tse.or.jp).
Posted 4/16/14
as long as it doesn't interfere with the release of FFXV... then I don't really care.








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Posted 4/16/14 , edited 4/16/14
The question now is how to convince your preferred console manufacturer to attempt to buy enough shares of Square Enix to secure exclusives.

Why do I suggest that? I am not that guy who has played every Final Fantasy game, let alone every Square-Enix game. Maybe it is just my mistaken opinion, but I think they do better work the more focused they are. If Nintendo or Microsoft could gain enough leverage in the company to secure exclusives again, while it stinks for those that don't have the appropriate system, it might help a lot to once again just have to build the game once. They also might be able to re-release some titles for good reason: besides needing fast cash, re-releasing the FFs that were Sony console exclusives coupled with people that just want re-releases of the older games with HD graphics.

I'll be honest, I would totally be pulling for Nintendo, because I haven't enjoyed the Final Fantasy series much since it shifted to Sony and I really want older FF games to be re-released for the 3DS. Yes I am weird: I don't even own a 3DS yet and probably won't for quite some time (X=0, remember?).
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Posted 4/16/14
Sony needs money and it's running out of buildings to sell. That is pretty much all I get out of it. As long as PlayStation is around and selling reasonably well it'll always have Square-Enix's support.
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Posted 4/16/14

KamisamanoOtaku wrote:

The question now is how to convince your preferred console manufacturer to attempt to buy enough shares of Square Enix to secure exclusives.

Why do I suggest that? I am not that guy who has played every Final Fantasy game, let alone every Square-Enix game. Maybe it is just my mistaken opinion, but I think they do better work the more focused they are. If Nintendo or Microsoft could gain enough leverage in the company to secure exclusives again, while it stinks for those that don't have the appropriate system, it might help a lot to once again just have to build the game once. They also might be able to re-release some titles for good reason: besides needing fast cash, re-releasing the FFs that were Sony console exclusives coupled with people that just want re-releases of the older games with HD graphics.

I'll be honest, I would totally be pulling for Nintendo, because I haven't enjoyed the Final Fantasy series much since it shifted to Sony and I really want older FF games to be re-released for the 3DS. Yes I am weird: I don't even own a 3DS yet and probably won't for quite some time (X=0, remember?).


8% of a companies stock exchange isn't even close to secure their products (games) as console/platform exclusives. Sony will sell their Square stocks in the monthly shift meaning that games like Bravely Defaults was released when Sony owned 8% their stocks (Bravely Defaults is a 3DS exclusive!)





GayAsianBoy wrote:

as long as it doesn't interfere with the release of FFXV... then I don't really care.





Sony selling their stocks whitin Square won't effect the development unless no one buys their stocks... However there's already other people/companies that wants in on those 8% of their stock exchange.

Posted 4/16/14
lol 8%, they probably planned to sell
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Posted 4/16/14 , edited 4/16/14
For each of you saying 8% isn't much - you may not understand how stocks work. In order for someone (in this case Sony) to have a serious amount of control over a company (Square Enix), all that individual needs is majority control of the stocks. Majority does not mean 51%, instead it can be as little as 5% depending on how many stocks there are and how diluted they are. Having 8% of a major game company is significant and selling all of those stocks is enough to have a strong impact on Square Enix' market value.
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Posted 4/16/14
Sony is going under. It's as simple as that. Playstation is the only thing they really have going for them these days.
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Posted 4/16/14 , edited 4/16/14

Mirai_Maku wrote:

For each of you saying 8% isn't much - you may not understand how stocks work. In order for someone (in this case Sony) to have a serious amount of control over a company (Square Enix), all that individual needs is majority control of the stocks. Majority does not mean 51%, instead it can be as little as 5% depending on how many stocks there are and how diluted they are. Having 8% of a major game company is significant and selling all of those stocks is enough to have a strong impact on Square Enix' market value.


Everything I was saying was that 8% is still not enough to secure exclusives.




Source; Square Enix shareholder information site




ShaneK1990 wrote:

Sony is going under. It's as simple as that. Playstation is the only thing they really have going for them these days.


I think this site said something else... http://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/IR/stock/information.html
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Posted 4/16/14

Mirai_Maku wrote:

For each of you saying 8% isn't much - you may not understand how stocks work. In order for someone (in this case Sony) to have a serious amount of control over a company (Square Enix), all that individual needs is majority control of the stocks. Majority does not mean 51%, instead it can be as little as 5% depending on how many stocks there are and how diluted they are. Having 8% of a major game company is significant and selling all of those stocks is enough to have a strong impact on Square Enix' market value.


Although I agree with you that 8% is rather significant, when it comes to Shareholder decisions, a majority is still a majority. I admit, I don't know the workings of Japanese business procedure but in the UK, if Sony owned that percentage in a UK business they would be unable to block any Shareholder resolution without the support of others, whether it was at an actual meeting, or even a written resolution passed sent out amongst the members. Having said that, if they felt the Board of Directors were not acting in the best interests of the company, they would be able to initiate proceedings that someone with a lesser shareholding would be unable to.

And personally, I don't think Sony selling its shares will have an impact on Square Enix's market value. It is well known that Sony has been liquidising a large proportion of its global assets as it restructures in an attempt to finally turn a profit, and the sale speaks more to the trouble that Sony is in, as opposed to any loss of faith in Square Enix. Especially as it seems to have turned a bit of a corner with the success of FFXIV.
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Posted 4/16/14 , edited 4/16/14



According to your chart, Sony ~is~ the majority shareholder outside of Square Enix (or at least was). Yasushiro Fukushima is the chairman of Square Enix.
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Posted 4/16/14

KamisamanoOtaku wrote:

The question now is how to convince your preferred console manufacturer to attempt to buy enough shares of Square Enix to secure exclusives.

Why do I suggest that? I am not that guy who has played every Final Fantasy game, let alone every Square-Enix game. Maybe it is just my mistaken opinion, but I think they do better work the more focused they are. If Nintendo or Microsoft could gain enough leverage in the company to secure exclusives again, while it stinks for those that don't have the appropriate system, it might help a lot to once again just have to build the game once. They also might be able to re-release some titles for good reason: besides needing fast cash, re-releasing the FFs that were Sony console exclusives coupled with people that just want re-releases of the older games with HD graphics.

I'll be honest, I would totally be pulling for Nintendo, because I haven't enjoyed the Final Fantasy series much since it shifted to Sony and I really want older FF games to be re-released for the 3DS. Yes I am weird: I don't even own a 3DS yet and probably won't for quite some time (X=0, remember?).


I rather doubt targeting a single platform is beneficial to SE for the following reasons:

1 - Most of their code should be useable on different platforms, providing they have a reasonable amount of abstraction over hardware specific areas of their code.

2 - The platforms this time around are actually very similar from what I recall. I think the Xbox and PS4 are both using roughly the same processor and gpu, and those are basically PC hardware as well. Correct me if I'm wrong about this.

3 - Other assets (i.e. art/music) should almost all be useable on different platforms providing the power of the platforms aren't too divergent.

4 - Targeting a single platform means limiting your target market. Will they sell 2 or 3 times more games as an exclusive?

5 - Focusing on a single platform for a lengthy period of time could mean they lose expertise on those systems, which could cost them in the long run.

6 - They already have experience with cross-platform games, e.g. Final Fantasy XIV.

Additionally, all 3 console manufacturers are looking a bit shaky in various ways right now. I would rather not be too attached to any one of them, personally. What happens to SE if they end up with a failed manufacturer?

Even ignoring the business side of the manufacturers, there are some considerations. Microsoft, for instance, would probably be a very bad choice, at least as I understand it, given SE makes many of their sales in Japan and Microsoft has had very little success in that market. Nintendo may also be a bad choice since one selling point of SE games tends to be their pretty graphics and Nintendo isn't exactly pushing the envelope with graphics hardware.

If there *were* going to pick a single platform, I'd like it to be the PC, but of course that will never happen.
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Posted 4/16/14

ShaneK1990 wrote:

Sony is going under. It's as simple as that. Playstation is the only thing they really have going for them these days.


They make money from their Insurance plans, High-end professional cameras and mobile too. Occasionally when they have a hit in the box office it helps them too. 007 and Spider-man are pretty big hits for them. But they still manage to lose many billions a year. It's not sustainable thats for sure.
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Posted 4/16/14

ahatestory wrote:
I rather doubt targeting a single platform is beneficial to SE for the following reasons:

1 - Most of their code should be useable on different platforms, providing they have a reasonable amount of abstraction over hardware specific areas of their code.

2 - The platforms this time around are actually very similar from what I recall. I think the Xbox and PS4 are both using roughly the same processor and gpu, and those are basically PC hardware as well. Correct me if I'm wrong about this.

3 - Other assets (i.e. art/music) should almost all be useable on different platforms providing the power of the platforms aren't too divergent.

4 - Targeting a single platform means limiting your target market. Will they sell 2 or 3 times more games as an exclusive?

5 - Focusing on a single platform for a lengthy period of time could mean they lose expertise on those systems, which could cost them in the long run.

6 - They already have experience with cross-platform games, e.g. Final Fantasy XIV.

Additionally, all 3 console manufacturers are looking a bit shaky in various ways right now. I would rather not be too attached to any one of them, personally. What happens to SE if they end up with a failed manufacturer?

Even ignoring the business side of the manufacturers, there are some considerations. Microsoft, for instance, would probably be a very bad choice, at least as I understand it, given SE makes many of their sales in Japan and Microsoft has had very little success in that market. Nintendo may also be a bad choice since one selling point of SE games tends to be their pretty graphics and Nintendo isn't exactly pushing the envelope with graphics hardware.

If there *were* going to pick a single platform, I'd like it to be the PC, but of course that will never happen.


I should have made my post blatantly a joke; no I am not trying to "back out of it" now in the usual sense; I started writing it with serious intent but by the end I could tell I wasn't being realistic... but instead I chose to secure my fan boy goggles. XD

To answer your questions, however:

1) Don't know; my coding skills are non-existent (I need to remedy that). I am mostly echoing general things I read, which may be empty excuses by others.

2) Okay here I thought it was obvious; I am a Nintendo fan, and more important I am a portable gamer, at least when money allows. My post was long and rambling so I can understand how that got missed, now that I think about it. Sony was backing out, so they were out. Microsoft has no handheld gaming system. I totally want the Final Fantasy series to find a home on a Nintendo portable because that is what I like.

3) I already said I don't know programming. I don't know hardware much either... but I haven't read much indicating they overlap as well as you seem to imply. This would also be the first generation where it would hold true. There's are often small differences that make for big differences.

4) Yes? No? Maybe? Sometimes it is more profitable to be a big, well adapted fish in a small pond, than a generic little fish in a great big ocean. My initial argument was one of quality, though perhaps I should have framed it as more of satisfying customers: the narrower your focus the easier it is to please the audience. There may also be less competition, though this is not guaranteed. So while it may seem counter-intuitive, it is indeed possible that an exclusive would sell better than a multi-platform game. After all, plenty of multi-platform releases don't actually sell that well on each platform.

5) Okay, this one you've got to explain to me. Tell me, what did Square lose by focusing on the NES? The SNES? This really only holds true if they suddenly start producing for the skipped platforms, or if the "PS5"/ "X-Box One-Two"/Nintendo Wii3 end up being similar enough to the current gen that it becomes a substantial advantage to have programmed for them on the next model. Has that ever really happened? No, really: I almost never hear about it, but I already confessed to my ignorance so let me know if all I know are the exceptions to the rule.

6) One of your best points; I can't even come up with a good joke response.

7) Not my fault you stopped numbering but kept going! If Square-Enix ends up with a "failed" manufacturer, it could be devastating... or not even a bump in the road. It will all depend upon how they structure themselves. Let us say that Nintendo did step in and managed to get enough stock to force exclusive status... Square-Enix isn't having a lot of competition for the system, so if they take into account that they can't sell more games than systems and adjust investments (in the game) accordingly, they could still turn a good profit. On the other hand if they sink all their capital into one game, success makes them and failure breaks them. Just to be clear, my point is that it isn't a guarantee one way or the other.

8) Okay, this one you got backwards; Microsoft's sales in Japan are weak, therefore they need something that sells well in Japan to drive console sales. The original X-Box almost played Sega Dreamcast games, but the negotiations broke down. Had Microsoft and Sega had such a partnership, it would very likely have made Microsoft a strong Japanese presence as well. Picking up Square-Enix could be another chance to remedy this problem.

9) If the selling point of modern Square-Enix games has become graphics to the point they can't make something visually appealing on the WiiU... they need to get out of the business. I totally get that the WiiU is disappointing and underpowered compared to the PS4 and X-Box One, but we are talking about a company known for JRPGs and Strategy games. If you can't make good visuals for those on the WiiU something is wrong with your game design or your fan base. If this sounds too harsh, my favorite Final Fantasy is VI; the graphics of those past it can "wow" me but not "enthrall" me like a good story line... which might explain why the last several have had to rely on their looks.

Now if you've read all of this... remember, I already confessed that I really don't expect Nintendo or Microsoft to partner up with Square-Enix to secure exclusive rights to future games. I just enjoyed going through your points because I like debating such things, and a few actually did seem wrong.
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