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Sony sold Square Enix
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Posted 4/16/14 , edited 4/16/14
Kingdom Hearts 3 and Final Fantasy Shippuden would have brought in so much revenue for Sony
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Posted 4/16/14
Meh. Square are the biggest has-beens in the industry. They were legendary in the SNES days, great in the Playstation 1 days, but it has just been decline for them for over a decade now. Main entry FF hasn't been great for a long time. I played FF 7 (very overrated), skipped FF 8, and didn't bother with FF after FF 9, except for FF 12, which wasn't great.
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Posted 4/16/14

KamisamanoOtaku wrote:


ahatestory wrote:
I rather doubt targeting a single platform is beneficial to SE for the following reasons:

1 - Most of their code should be useable on different platforms, providing they have a reasonable amount of abstraction over hardware specific areas of their code.

2 - The platforms this time around are actually very similar from what I recall. I think the Xbox and PS4 are both using roughly the same processor and gpu, and those are basically PC hardware as well. Correct me if I'm wrong about this.

3 - Other assets (i.e. art/music) should almost all be useable on different platforms providing the power of the platforms aren't too divergent.

4 - Targeting a single platform means limiting your target market. Will they sell 2 or 3 times more games as an exclusive?

5 - Focusing on a single platform for a lengthy period of time could mean they lose expertise on those systems, which could cost them in the long run.

6 - They already have experience with cross-platform games, e.g. Final Fantasy XIV.

Additionally, all 3 console manufacturers are looking a bit shaky in various ways right now. I would rather not be too attached to any one of them, personally. What happens to SE if they end up with a failed manufacturer?

Even ignoring the business side of the manufacturers, there are some considerations. Microsoft, for instance, would probably be a very bad choice, at least as I understand it, given SE makes many of their sales in Japan and Microsoft has had very little success in that market. Nintendo may also be a bad choice since one selling point of SE games tends to be their pretty graphics and Nintendo isn't exactly pushing the envelope with graphics hardware.

If there *were* going to pick a single platform, I'd like it to be the PC, but of course that will never happen.


I should have made my post blatantly a joke; no I am not trying to "back out of it" now in the usual sense; I started writing it with serious intent but by the end I could tell I wasn't being realistic... but instead I chose to secure my fan boy goggles. XD

To answer your questions, however:

1) Don't know; my coding skills are non-existent (I need to remedy that). I am mostly echoing general things I read, which may be empty excuses by others.

2) Okay here I thought it was obvious; I am a Nintendo fan, and more important I am a portable gamer, at least when money allows. My post was long and rambling so I can understand how that got missed, now that I think about it. Sony was backing out, so they were out. Microsoft has no handheld gaming system. I totally want the Final Fantasy series to find a home on a Nintendo portable because that is what I like.

3) I already said I don't know programming. I don't know hardware much either... but I haven't read much indicating they overlap as well as you seem to imply. This would also be the first generation where it would hold true. There's are often small differences that make for big differences.

4) Yes? No? Maybe? Sometimes it is more profitable to be a big, well adapted fish in a small pond, than a generic little fish in a great big ocean. My initial argument was one of quality, though perhaps I should have framed it as more of satisfying customers: the narrower your focus the easier it is to please the audience. There may also be less competition, though this is not guaranteed. So while it may seem counter-intuitive, it is indeed possible that an exclusive would sell better than a multi-platform game. After all, plenty of multi-platform releases don't actually sell that well on each platform.

5) Okay, this one you've got to explain to me. Tell me, what did Square lose by focusing on the NES? The SNES? This really only holds true if they suddenly start producing for the skipped platforms, or if the "PS5"/ "X-Box One-Two"/Nintendo Wii3 end up being similar enough to the current gen that it becomes a substantial advantage to have programmed for them on the next model. Has that ever really happened? No, really: I almost never hear about it, but I already confessed to my ignorance so let me know if all I know are the exceptions to the rule.

6) One of your best points; I can't even come up with a good joke response.

7) Not my fault you stopped numbering but kept going! If Square-Enix ends up with a "failed" manufacturer, it could be devastating... or not even a bump in the road. It will all depend upon how they structure themselves. Let us say that Nintendo did step in and managed to get enough stock to force exclusive status... Square-Enix isn't having a lot of competition for the system, so if they take into account that they can't sell more games than systems and adjust investments (in the game) accordingly, they could still turn a good profit. On the other hand if they sink all their capital into one game, success makes them and failure breaks them. Just to be clear, my point is that it isn't a guarantee one way or the other.

8) Okay, this one you got backwards; Microsoft's sales in Japan are weak, therefore they need something that sells well in Japan to drive console sales. The original X-Box almost played Sega Dreamcast games, but the negotiations broke down. Had Microsoft and Sega had such a partnership, it would very likely have made Microsoft a strong Japanese presence as well. Picking up Square-Enix could be another chance to remedy this problem.

9) If the selling point of modern Square-Enix games has become graphics to the point they can't make something visually appealing on the WiiU... they need to get out of the business. I totally get that the WiiU is disappointing and underpowered compared to the PS4 and X-Box One, but we are talking about a company known for JRPGs and Strategy games. If you can't make good visuals for those on the WiiU something is wrong with your game design or your fan base. If this sounds too harsh, my favorite Final Fantasy is VI; the graphics of those past it can "wow" me but not "enthrall" me like a good story line... which might explain why the last several have had to rely on their looks.

Now if you've read all of this... remember, I already confessed that I really don't expect Nintendo or Microsoft to partner up with Square-Enix to secure exclusive rights to future games. I just enjoyed going through your points because I like debating such things, and a few actually did seem wrong.


I'll keep this brief since I really gotta get to bed, but here's my thoughts on the points you raised.

1,3: http://www.extremetech.com/gaming/156273-xbox-720-vs-ps4-vs-pc-how-the-hardware-specs-compare

2: A portable system would be a good fit, but then again, there's a lot of RPGs to compete with on those systems, they're just really popular on portables. I admit I would like to play some SE games on my 3ds though.

4: When you're as big as SE, and your games have the kinds of budgets they've got, you really don't want to limit your potential market. That's my opinion, anyway. Besides, SE is going to be the big fish for JRPGs on every platform they choose to be on. Who's bigger?

5: I admit I'm not sure I can name a case of 5 happening in the way you're speaking of, where they last a whole generation and then switch systems, but that's not what I was thinking of. Imagine if SE had put all their eggs in the Dreamcast basket. Or the Master system.

Given the last generation lasted 7 years, it's quite possible one of these new systems could go the way of the Dreamcast. With this particular generation, the similarities in hardware (only between the PS4 and Xbox though) might keep it from being a major issue, but it also should keep cross-platform development from being a major issue I think.

6: Yay, victory!

7: One has to consider again though, if they have X employees being paid Y amount, what happens if they can't afford to make a game that costs X * Y * Time because there aren't enough customers to make it pay off? Now they have to either make scaled down games or start scaling their company down. This is why AAA companies don't make indie games. Indie games can be profitable, but it's not enough profit when you can't pay people in pizza and cola.

8: I was talking about a deal being to SE's benefit, not Microsoft's. I fully agree a deal like this would have a chance of helping Microsoft, though how many Japanese would buy the Xbox just for SE's games, I'm not sure. I wouldn't be surprised to hear that is a common nightmare over there.

9: "People that just want re-releases of the older games with HD graphics." They'll be prettier on the PS4 or Xbox.
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Posted 4/17/14



According to your chart, Sony ~is~ the majority shareholder outside of Square Enix (or at least was). Yasushiro Fukushima is the chairman of Square Enix.

Yasushiro Fukushima owns most of the shares followed up by Fukushima Planning and then Sony. Also, that chart was from Square Enix official investment and shareholder site.
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Posted 4/17/14

KamisamanoOtaku wrote:

The question now is how to convince your preferred console manufacturer to attempt to buy enough shares of Square Enix to secure exclusives.

Why do I suggest that? I am not that guy who has played every Final Fantasy game, let alone every Square-Enix game. Maybe it is just my mistaken opinion, but I think they do better work the more focused they are. If Nintendo or Microsoft could gain enough leverage in the company to secure exclusives again, while it stinks for those that don't have the appropriate system, it might help a lot to once again just have to build the game once. They also might be able to re-release some titles for good reason: besides needing fast cash, re-releasing the FFs that were Sony console exclusives coupled with people that just want re-releases of the older games with HD graphics.

I'll be honest, I would totally be pulling for Nintendo, because I haven't enjoyed the Final Fantasy series much since it shifted to Sony and I really want older FF games to be re-released for the 3DS. Yes I am weird: I don't even own a 3DS yet and probably won't for quite some time (X=0, remember?).


I'm with you on this one. I'd love to see FF7, 8, and 9 ported to the 3ds.
Posted 4/17/14
I dont care i just want Squaresoft back the maker of dreams!!!! Not SquareEnix the destroyer of dreams!!!!!!!!
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Posted 4/17/14 , edited 4/17/14
Sony must have needed some more cash flow.
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Posted 4/17/14


Brief was also concise, so it was good.

As a reminder to anyone slogging through this (and my desire not to have an even more massive wall-o-text quote even in spoilers), I instigated this back and forth with a comment that (as I wrote it out), became a joke except I didn't realize it at the time: one of those fanboy wishes that might be possible but that is quite unlikely: with Sony selling its Square/Enix shares, I suggested that another major console produce (re: Nintendo or Microsoft) swoop in and try to get enough shares to swing an exclusivity contract (compare to "Capcom should just sell/license out Mega Man to Nintendo!"). It should be noted that I favor Nintendo because as little as I've been able to afford this last generation, I still have that Nintendo-fanboyism (the kind where I can listen to reason, even if I am a bit slow about it). We were then discussing reasons such an arrangement would or would not be a good idea.

Remember though, I've essentially "surrendered" because at this point I am only arguing the validity of certain points mostly because this is a "fun" debate, not an "I H8 U! SRS BZNES!" nonsense (which as far as I can tell ahatestory is down with). I mean, I just like discussing silly stuff sometimes. For that matter, I am even learning a little.

Points 1 and 3: At this point, I play the "Nintendo card": the hardware point is completely valid for two of the big three, but only one of those two avoids getting even more fantastic in this idea: Sony selling its shares only to buy them back is even less plausible than Nintendo or Microsoft stepping in. Nintendo would mean tailoring something to the WiiU or the 3DS, both of which aren't easy to multi-platform. In terms of X-Box One and PS4, there is no argument, and some would consider the WiiU/3DS one pointless to consider.

2) I wasn't sure how much competition there was for JRPGs on handhelds. How much other competition is there? For example, how many "western" RPGs are there? How many genre-bending games that still compete for the same level of time and amount of learning as a JRPG? How many that if Sony went "2nd Party" might allow for beneficial crossovers? Not to get overly fanciful, but for example Nintendo was able to secure Square/Enix, it could probably get at least one run of "Printing Money" crossing say Final Fantasy with Pokémon. ;)

4) I'll go out on the ledge here and state that I worry many companies have become "too big", especially with how economic downturns can and do happen, coupled with the "everyone wants a piece" and video games moving more and more mainstream. Even disregarding that... remember that "limiting your market" is largely a matter of perspective. Plenty of times the "mainstream" approach limits your market, its just which parts of the market you choose to eliminate and of which parts you choose to eliminate. This is heavily influenced by my bias, however: I literally became a big Squaresoft fan post Final Fantasy III (VI) on the SNES, and began falling out of their fandom with FFVII. Few of my friends and acquaintances shared that position... but the thing is very few of them also remain Square-Enix fans (guess I don't count as one either). A smaller but sustainable market can be much better than a larger market always on the brink of collapse. Keep in mind I am arguing less what should be done, and merely pointing out it isn't a 100% obvious "thing". If Square/Enix keeps rolling this way, odds are they are certain they must continue to do larger and larger games to still function.

5) The Master System was fairly successful everywhere but the United States, to my understanding. FFVII would have had to be delayed to become a Dreamcast exclusive, but had FFVIII or FFIX been Dreamcast exclusives... Dreamcast might have achieved the marketshare it needed to survive. Keep in mind for dropping out early, it did fairly well. The Dreamcast was not a "Virtual Boy" or "Sega Saturn" kind of failure. The big difference is that right now Square/Enix isn't the powerhouse it was back then. Sometimes (and remember, I am largely playing Devil's Advocate) combining two things results in something greater than the sum of its parts.

6) Yay! Placeholder!

7) This is why successful companies are just as often downsizing as hiring. To be competitive, you've got to adjust to the market place and unfortunately, sometimes that means changing direction and cutting people loose: harsh as it sounds, the alternative is to eventually cut everyone loose when you go under!

8) Yeah... I've been talking about another company buying us Square/Enix stock to have a serious voice in the company; while their benefit matters, it wasn't the driving force. Then again Square/Enix has had enough issues as of late I am not sure it would be them "taking a hit". I don't have the numbers, so forgive me (and inform me!) if it was an illusion that their best years have been while making games (mostly) exclusive to Nintendo and later Sony. I am curious how Square/Enix sales vary the world over and if being on board with Microsoft would allow them to gain back some of their lost presence in the U.S. while enhancing Microsoft's presence in Japan; I very much expect their Japanese fans to buy an X-Box One if that is the only place to get games. Am I misreading that situation?

9) They'll be portable on the 3DS. Good argument against the WiiU, I am afraid. Then again, will there be as much demand on X-Box One? I really don't know. >.>
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Posted 4/17/14
I've ended my consoles days and it doesn't surprised me since late 2009 that this maybe the case since I've ended chasing Square Enix releases. I was a fan and all into the company but little info came out and long waits tore me ambition down. The company itself has potential but it probably is seeking a high set of standards as my guess by focusing big.
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Posted 4/18/14

Dubnoman wrote:

Meh. Square are the biggest has-beens in the industry. They were legendary in the SNES days, great in the Playstation 1 days, but it has just been decline for them for over a decade now. Main entry FF hasn't been great for a long time. I played FF 7 (very overrated), skipped FF 8, and didn't bother with FF after FF 9, except for FF 12, which wasn't great.


Sorry, but I can't help but chuckle at this post. You reached that conclusion after only playing a whopping 3 of the last 8 Final Fantasy entries?
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Posted 4/18/14

nonspecificscientific wrote:


KamisamanoOtaku wrote:

The question now is how to convince your preferred console manufacturer to attempt to buy enough shares of Square Enix to secure exclusives.

Why do I suggest that? I am not that guy who has played every Final Fantasy game, let alone every Square-Enix game. Maybe it is just my mistaken opinion, but I think they do better work the more focused they are. If Nintendo or Microsoft could gain enough leverage in the company to secure exclusives again, while it stinks for those that don't have the appropriate system, it might help a lot to once again just have to build the game once. They also might be able to re-release some titles for good reason: besides needing fast cash, re-releasing the FFs that were Sony console exclusives coupled with people that just want re-releases of the older games with HD graphics.

I'll be honest, I would totally be pulling for Nintendo, because I haven't enjoyed the Final Fantasy series much since it shifted to Sony and I really want older FF games to be re-released for the 3DS. Yes I am weird: I don't even own a 3DS yet and probably won't for quite some time (X=0, remember?).


I'm with you on this one. I'd love to see FF7, 8, and 9 ported to the 3ds.


Square Enix have already said that if they make a 7 remastered then it's gonna be their bigger project ever even bigger then Versus XIII (XV) and would also take much longer time to deliver. http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2014-02-17-a-chat-about-that-final-fantasy-7-remake
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Posted 4/18/14

trmjkd989 wrote:


Dubnoman wrote:

Meh. Square are the biggest has-beens in the industry. They were legendary in the SNES days, great in the Playstation 1 days, but it has just been decline for them for over a decade now. Main entry FF hasn't been great for a long time. I played FF 7 (very overrated), skipped FF 8, and didn't bother with FF after FF 9, except for FF 12, which wasn't great.


Sorry, but I can't help but chuckle at this post. You reached that conclusion after only playing a whopping 3 of the last 8 Final Fantasy entries?



I don't like a lot of what Final Fantasy became from FF 7 onward. I don't want to play online FFs. FF X never interested me much. FF X-2 I hear has good gameplay (due to a reused job system), but has a bad story. I tried FF VIII. I tried to get into it and couldn't. I tried FF XIII. I couldn't get into FF XIII either. Doesn't help that after failing to get into it, I see so many online say it wasn't even good and that it is a waste of time. With the exception of online FFs, I've been giving other main entry FFs a chance and just not getting into them. Final Fantasy isn't what it used to be. It has mostly become about mixing fantasy with its own kind of sci-fi, all the while serving up a lot of characters that I just don't care about. Final Fantasy isn't what it used to be and Square-Enix isn't what it used to be.

However, I thought FF 9 was great, and as for the Enix part of Square-Enix, I loved Dragon Quest VIII on PS2.
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Posted 4/18/14

TheOmegaForce70941 wrote:


nonspecificscientific wrote:


KamisamanoOtaku wrote:

The question now is how to convince your preferred console manufacturer to attempt to buy enough shares of Square Enix to secure exclusives.

Why do I suggest that? I am not that guy who has played every Final Fantasy game, let alone every Square-Enix game. Maybe it is just my mistaken opinion, but I think they do better work the more focused they are. If Nintendo or Microsoft could gain enough leverage in the company to secure exclusives again, while it stinks for those that don't have the appropriate system, it might help a lot to once again just have to build the game once. They also might be able to re-release some titles for good reason: besides needing fast cash, re-releasing the FFs that were Sony console exclusives coupled with people that just want re-releases of the older games with HD graphics.

I'll be honest, I would totally be pulling for Nintendo, because I haven't enjoyed the Final Fantasy series much since it shifted to Sony and I really want older FF games to be re-released for the 3DS. Yes I am weird: I don't even own a 3DS yet and probably won't for quite some time (X=0, remember?).


I'm with you on this one. I'd love to see FF7, 8, and 9 ported to the 3ds.


Square Enix have already said that if they make a 7 remastered then it's gonna be their bigger project ever even bigger then Versus XIII (XV) and would also take much longer time to deliver. http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2014-02-17-a-chat-about-that-final-fantasy-7-remake


So in other words, no port to 3ds ever. That's understandable, given that the game is their tour de force. Still, I don't think it would take too much to port over 8 and 9, not to say that they would. But a guy can dream...
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Posted 4/19/14 , edited 4/19/14

nonspecificscientific wrote:


TheOmegaForce70941 wrote:


nonspecificscientific wrote:


KamisamanoOtaku wrote:

The question now is how to convince your preferred console manufacturer to attempt to buy enough shares of Square Enix to secure exclusives.

Why do I suggest that? I am not that guy who has played every Final Fantasy game, let alone every Square-Enix game. Maybe it is just my mistaken opinion, but I think they do better work the more focused they are. If Nintendo or Microsoft could gain enough leverage in the company to secure exclusives again, while it stinks for those that don't have the appropriate system, it might help a lot to once again just have to build the game once. They also might be able to re-release some titles for good reason: besides needing fast cash, re-releasing the FFs that were Sony console exclusives coupled with people that just want re-releases of the older games with HD graphics.

I'll be honest, I would totally be pulling for Nintendo, because I haven't enjoyed the Final Fantasy series much since it shifted to Sony and I really want older FF games to be re-released for the 3DS. Yes I am weird: I don't even own a 3DS yet and probably won't for quite some time (X=0, remember?).


I'm with you on this one. I'd love to see FF7, 8, and 9 ported to the 3ds.


Square Enix have already said that if they make a 7 remastered then it's gonna be their bigger project ever even bigger then Versus XIII (XV) and would also take much longer time to deliver. http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2014-02-17-a-chat-about-that-final-fantasy-7-remake


So in other words, no port to 3ds ever. That's understandable, given that the game is their tour de force. Still, I don't think it would take too much to port over 8 and 9, not to say that they would. But a guy can dream...


Actually it would take a lot of work since first of all the engine they used back then doesn't support any of the newer systems, meaning that they would've to make the engine work on a new system like 3DS, PS4, X1 and etc. (or make a new engine from the ground up).

And then they would've to up the textures since no one would accept a game whit the textures of such a game in this day and age unless it's from a indie developer. But if they get higher textures mappings then the old low-poly count models wouldn't be enough to the new textures to shine meaning that they would've to then remake all 3D object whit the right size for the textures.

As someone who is studying for a game development degree, it always surprises me when people say there wouldn't take much work to remake that one old game... Where it actually require a LOT of work to be done.

*EDIT

They would also need to redo the music in the game as well as add new physics, cut scenes, voice acting, lightning art and etc.
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Posted 4/19/14

TheOmegaForce70941 wrote:


nonspecificscientific wrote:


TheOmegaForce70941 wrote:


nonspecificscientific wrote:


KamisamanoOtaku wrote:

The question now is how to convince your preferred console manufacturer to attempt to buy enough shares of Square Enix to secure exclusives.

Why do I suggest that? I am not that guy who has played every Final Fantasy game, let alone every Square-Enix game. Maybe it is just my mistaken opinion, but I think they do better work the more focused they are. If Nintendo or Microsoft could gain enough leverage in the company to secure exclusives again, while it stinks for those that don't have the appropriate system, it might help a lot to once again just have to build the game once. They also might be able to re-release some titles for good reason: besides needing fast cash, re-releasing the FFs that were Sony console exclusives coupled with people that just want re-releases of the older games with HD graphics.

I'll be honest, I would totally be pulling for Nintendo, because I haven't enjoyed the Final Fantasy series much since it shifted to Sony and I really want older FF games to be re-released for the 3DS. Yes I am weird: I don't even own a 3DS yet and probably won't for quite some time (X=0, remember?).


I'm with you on this one. I'd love to see FF7, 8, and 9 ported to the 3ds.


Square Enix have already said that if they make a 7 remastered then it's gonna be their bigger project ever even bigger then Versus XIII (XV) and would also take much longer time to deliver. http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2014-02-17-a-chat-about-that-final-fantasy-7-remake


So in other words, no port to 3ds ever. That's understandable, given that the game is their tour de force. Still, I don't think it would take too much to port over 8 and 9, not to say that they would. But a guy can dream...


Actually it would take a lot of work since first of all the engine they used back then doesn't support any of the newer systems, meaning that they would've to make the engine work on a new system like 3DS, PS4, X1 and etc. (or make a new engine from the ground up).

And then they would've to up the textures since no one would accept a game whit the textures of such a game in this day and age unless it's from a indie developer. But if they get higher textures mappings then the old low-poly count models wouldn't be enough to the new textures to shine meaning that they would've to then remake all 3D object whit the right size for the textures.

As someone who is studying for a game development degree, it always surprises me when people say there wouldn't take much work to remake that one old game... Where it actually require a LOT of work to be done.

*EDIT

They would also need to redo the music in the game as well as add new physics, cut scenes, voice acting, lightning art and etc.


Wow, had no idea it would take that much...
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