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The unacceptable excuse..
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Posted 4/17/14

FlyinDumpling wrote:


isisprince wrote:

Indeed. You make a strong case for paying dentists more.
/facepalm

who do you think taught that dentist how to be a dentist? a teacher. You can't be a dentist just from reading textbooks


Yes you can. Why do you think a teacher is the only way to knowledge? I study all the time to learn new things, and I'm not in school. At my job, we are continually needing new skills and required to learn them without any paid classes.
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Posted 4/17/14

isisprince wrote:

Yes you can. Why do you think a teacher is the only way to knowledge? I study all the time to learn new things, and I'm not in school. At my job, we are continually needing new skills and required to learn them without any paid classes.
Good luck with being a dentist in the black market without a degree
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Posted 4/17/14

FlyinDumpling wrote:


isisprince wrote:

Yes you can. Why do you think a teacher is the only way to knowledge? I study all the time to learn new things, and I'm not in school. At my job, we are continually needing new skills and required to learn them without any paid classes.
Good luck with being a dentist in the black market without a degree


Were you talking about certification requirements for specific jobs or were you talking about teaching in general? I maintain that you don't need a teacher. Ever. It's nice to have, and it certainly can speed up the process in certain cases, but there is no secret knowledge or mental jujitsu they possess which justifies being "the highest-paid" occupation on the planet. No disrespect to teachers intended.

What does this mean for you? You can learn anything you want to, including being a dentist. The piece of paper at the end is another matter entirely.
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Posted 4/17/14 , edited 4/17/14
Being military, "I don't know" works in 90% of all situations. The 10% where it doesn't, is when you are tasked with something, because the follow up is "WELL GO FIGURE IT THE F--K OUT".


:(.
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Posted 4/17/14 , edited 4/17/14
The excuse I've heard waaaay too often, "I don't feel like it."
Mostly from my cousins and other extended family.... (F#*&ing lame a$$e$.)

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Posted 4/17/14 , edited 4/17/14
I use to teach 2 different Astronomy Lab courses when I was in college. I understand, the excuses students come up with, and they do uses those excuses a lot. However, sometimes use the excuse, "I don't know." or "I don't understand." can be legit, and the student is really trying to learn. For example, when I was taking College Biology, I studied 12-15 hours a week sometimes more, I went to professor and teaching assistant for help, the professor sometimes would hold study session, and I went to every single one them. The professor knew I was trying my best, but no matter how hard he, the teaching assistant, and other students tried to explain things to me I could not understand anything. I did pass the class with a D only because the professor curved the grade so I could pass. However, I will say he was most likely the hard biology professor at that college since over 70% of his students was failing.
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Posted 4/18/14
Hmmm to answer your question... I don't know.
Posted 4/18/14

isisprince wrote:

Were you talking about certification requirements for specific jobs or were you talking about teaching in general? I maintain that you don't need a teacher. Ever. It's nice to have, and it certainly can speed up the process in certain cases, but there is no secret knowledge or mental jujitsu they possess which justifies being "the highest-paid" occupation on the planet. No disrespect to teachers intended.

What does this mean for you? You can learn anything you want to, including being a dentist. The piece of paper at the end is another matter entirely.


So you are saying our job is insignificant?
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Posted 4/18/14

demongurrl13 wrote:
Sometimes I think most people are just too lazy to think...

I'll be honest... This is me sometimes... Every time I'm frustrated, tired or just don't feel like talking I always say "I don't know"
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Posted 4/18/14 , edited 4/18/14

demongurrl13 wrote:


isisprince wrote:

Were you talking about certification requirements for specific jobs or were you talking about teaching in general? I maintain that you don't need a teacher. Ever. It's nice to have, and it certainly can speed up the process in certain cases, but there is no secret knowledge or mental jujitsu they possess which justifies being "the highest-paid" occupation on the planet. No disrespect to teachers intended.

What does this mean for you? You can learn anything you want to, including being a dentist. The piece of paper at the end is another matter entirely.


So you are saying our job is insignificant?




Not speaking for prince, but I'm pretty sure I get what they are saying. I have a lot of respect for teachers. My mom was one for almost twenty years and I was a private tutor for quite a while. That being said, I didn't ever actually learn much in the traditional classroom setting. I usually had to go home and look over everything taught that day with my mother or by myself before anything made sense. I'm still like that today. These days I always opt for self paced distance learning courses when they're available because I find teachers to be more distracting and gimmicky than helpful most of the time. But that's just me. The vast majority of people do benefit from having classroom style instruction, and I have on occasion encountered a teacher whose style of teaching really clicked with me as well. Still, I am also of the firm belief that given the right motivation, materials, time allotment, and circumstance that nearly everything can be self taught to a good portion of the world's population.

As for the dilemma of students that are less than motivated to learn a given subject, I'd say yes, nearly everyone is lazy about learning something. It happens. There's always going to be that thing that you know you should learn and can see the value in doing so, but you just don't really want to or just don't like the process of doing so. If this is the problem with the students you're talking about, then yes they're probably going to throw up their hands and quit at every opportunity. Like someone else previously said, they might even be looking to fail but need an excuse when they do. The excuse is you failed to teach them so they never could understand. And then sometimes they might really want to succeed, but not have to put in all the effort that it will actually take to acquire the new knowledge. In that case it's still your fault for not making it easier for them. In either case they have a rotten attitude, but it is what it is.
If they're becoming disruptive it's sometimes best to just politely point that out to them after class. One of the best things a teacher can do for a student is express their belief in the student's capability. Sometimes just letting them know that you know that they have what it takes to do it if they'd just hang in there and apply themselves a little more, and that their negativity is only making it harder for themselves and everyone else who's trying so hard is the only way to light a fire under them. These are all adults you're talking about? They can handle a little tough talk.
Posted 4/18/14

kissmytoe wrote:



I know what you mean about preferring to study and learn on your own. I also learn better when left on my own. However, I don't think of teachers as mere pawns of the world's unsatisfactory education systems. Teachers are not just found in a classroom setting. They don't only teach textbook knowledge, they help impart wisdom and bring out other peoples' potential. They are mentors and role models. They offer guidance and inspiration. I don't necessarily think teachers should be paid the highest amount of money. I, for one, don't care if the raise I was promised has still not been put into effect. All I care about is that I am making a difference in my students' lives and helping them better themselves. Every time one of them comes up to me telling me how happy they are and how people have told them that their English has improved dramatically, I feel extremely satisfied. As long as someone acknowledges and appreciates the work I do and the efforts I put in, I'm good.

I've done my time through the correctional facility called higher education and yes, all I was taught there were things I could've easily and much preferably learned on my own through reading and research. I don't regret any of it though, because I can confidently say that I am the person I am now because I was fortunate enough to encounter amazing teachers and mentors that helped guide me and gave me some much needed encouragement and wisdom through my toughest years. For that, I will always be grateful.

By the way, thank you for the suggestion. I think I will address them privately and figure out what the problem might be before going to my director.
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Posted 4/18/14 , edited 4/18/14

demongurrl13 wrote:


isisprince wrote:

Were you talking about certification requirements for specific jobs or were you talking about teaching in general? I maintain that you don't need a teacher. Ever. It's nice to have, and it certainly can speed up the process in certain cases, but there is no secret knowledge or mental jujitsu they possess which justifies being "the highest-paid" occupation on the planet. No disrespect to teachers intended.

What does this mean for you? You can learn anything you want to, including being a dentist. The piece of paper at the end is another matter entirely.


So you are saying our job is insignificant?


In general, whenever you feel the need to rephrase someone else, instead of putting words into their mouths, you could say something like, "do you feel our job is insignificant?"

In this way, you clarify the situation without the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leading_question.

Refer back to the part of my post in bold. Teachers are nice to have, they do perform a service worthy of compensation, but nowhere near "highest-paid occupation" territory.

Do you feel teachers should be a highest-paid occupation?

I also want to add that my personal experience with teachers is a mixed bag. Public school was largely a waste of time. I could have done more, faster, and better, without them. Instead, I was put on the factory assembly line that is a public education. In college, it only confirmed my feelings, as the professors are getting most of their money from grants, not for tuition. This means that their very presence in class is because they are required to do it in order to be eligible for school grants, not that *I* am compensating them despite a skyrocketing tuition. When you see that, when you see professors cashing the checks and not actually doing any teaching, what are you supposed to think? The result, a self-motivated, self-driven and do-it-yourself approach to education.

Since my time in school, I have a professional degree, a great job, good pay, and I'm going to (rightly) take credit for most of it.

Nowadays, you see what amounts to sucking up to people for various reasons or trying to make their points through trickery. You know those people who say, "But think of the children!", all dramatic and dripping with tragedy? In order to make their points and justify hyperbole, they attach unassailable topics. It's insincere and dishonest communication.

Great for you, you teach kids, good times. No part of what I said has any commentary about you as a person or the value of your profession beyond saying,
1) you don't need teachers to learn things
2) teachers should not be the highest-paid profession

… And that's pretty much it.
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Posted 4/18/14

demongurrl13 wrote:

Being an ESL teacher, there is one thing that never fails to frustrate me: the use of "I don't understand" or "I don't know" as an excuse by my students to not have to the do any form of thinking or thought processing that I'm asking them to do.

And really, it's not just my ESL students who do this, even my brother and other people have done this before. Heck, my parents have done this before! I even remember being like this when I was much younger...

My question is, why do you think people use not knowing/understanding as an excuse to not do anything? Should it really be accepted as an excuse for people to act helpless?

The way I see it now, it should really never be an excuse. It should be a challenge. Instead of saying "I don't understand, I can't..." we should be saying "I don't understand, please explain it to me." If you don't know how something works, then instead of admitting that lack of knowledge as an excuse to not use it, you should instead just learn how it works.

I don't know.. Sometimes I think most people are just too lazy to think...


Do both phrases not imply the same thing? You're just mad people don't add "please explain it to me"?
Posted 4/18/14 , edited 4/18/14

isisprince wrote:


I rephrased it that way because that IS what your statement is saying. Even after your explanation, saying that people don't need teachers to learn leads to the question: If people don't need teachers to learn, then what use does society have for such an occupation? Answer: Nothing. Ergo it is an insignificant occupation.

Also,
1) I don't teach kids. (Well, technically no if we're going to go by their age)
2) I don't care what my occupation pays me in dollar bills.

I don't really want to repeat myself on what I think about teachers, so please read my last post. Hopefully it broadens your idea of what a teacher really is...


LightningChocobo wrote:

Do both phrases not imply the same thing? You're just mad people don't add "please explain it to me"?


Please read through the thread before asking a question that has already been answered.
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Posted 4/18/14

isisprince wrote:


demongurrl13 wrote:


isisprince wrote:

Were you talking about certification requirements for specific jobs or were you talking about teaching in general? I maintain that you don't need a teacher. Ever. It's nice to have, and it certainly can speed up the process in certain cases, but there is no secret knowledge or mental jujitsu they possess which justifies being "the highest-paid" occupation on the planet. No disrespect to teachers intended.

What does this mean for you? You can learn anything you want to, including being a dentist. The piece of paper at the end is another matter entirely.


So you are saying our job is insignificant?


In general, whenever you feel the need to rephrase someone else, instead of putting words into their mouths, you could say something like, "do you feel our job is insignificant?"

In this way, you clarify the situation without the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leading_question.

Refer back to the part of my post in bold. Teachers are nice to have, they do perform a service worthy of compensation, but nowhere near "highest-paid occupation" territory.

Do you feel teachers should be a highest-paid occupation?

I also want to add that my personal experience with teachers is a mixed bag. Public school was largely a waste of time. I could have done more, faster, and better, without them. Instead, I was put on the factory assembly line that is a public education. In college, it only confirmed my feelings, as the professors are getting most of their money from grants, not for tuition. This means that their very presence in class is because they are required to do it in order to be eligible for school grants, not that *I* am compensating them despite a skyrocketing tuition. When you see that, when you see professors cashing the checks and not actually doing any teaching, what are you supposed to think? The result, a self-motivated, self-driven and do-it-yourself approach to education.

Since my time in school, I have a professional degree, a great job, good pay, and I'm going to (rightly) take credit for most of it.

Nowadays, you see what amounts to sucking up to people for various reasons or trying to make their points through trickery. You know those people who say, "But think of the children!", all dramatic and dripping with tragedy? In order to make their points and justify hyperbole, they attach unassailable topics. It's insincere and dishonest communication.

Great for you, you teach kids, good times. No part of what I said has any commentary about you as a person or the value of your profession beyond saying,
1) you don't need teachers to learn things
2) teachers should not be the highest-paid profession

… And that's pretty much it.


Good teachers deserve just compensation in regard to their payment. Bad teachers should just get the standard teaching payment and be done with them. I respect the thread starter for what she is trying to say: she actually gives a damn about kids learning. While I am confused by what she was trying to word in her post, I can see where she is coming from. Teachers irrelevant? That is very far from the truth. Of course I'm assuming you make that statement based on your opinion, but from the way you come across is sounds like you are applying that to the general public. Teachers aren't useless. Teachers are a very instrumental part of a society, even if you can't see it. I hold teachers in high regard because their job isn't even close to being easy. Granted, there are probably more bad teachers than good. But the good teachers (and the person who started this thread seems to be a good, caring teacher) deserve their compensation.
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