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The unacceptable excuse..
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Posted 4/18/14

LightningChocobo wrote:
Okay, I am starting to see your point of view: you don't consider teachers 'unimportant'. You appreciate them as an added source to help people learn. However, you consider self-teaching to be more useful. Correct?


For me, self-teaching is more useful. I would rather a book, YouTube, or natural discovery. I have no personal use for a teacher. It might be different for somebody else.
Posted 4/18/14

isisprince wrote

Please check the following English statements/fragments:
"So you think teachers are irrelevant?"
"Teachers are useless?"
"So you are saying teachers are worthless. /facepalm"
" Do you think teachers are needed?"

Be honest with yourself when you read these and choose which one you think is the best way at sincerely communicating with someone else.

To answer your question, you do not need a teacher to learn something. That's a fact. It just is. There are many ways to learn things, including books, YouTube, and natural discovery.

What are teachers for? Hopefully, learning enablement, but more often than not, certification. The entire public school system and college are all about testing this and that. SATs, IQ tests, high school diploma, any kind of certification, it's all about test taking and teachers function as a proctor. So yes, teacher's teach and you can learn from them, but you are not helpless at learning without them.

I didn't cover my postings in disclaimers about the validity of your profession because I didn't think I needed to, but would you feel better if I said teachers can be a valuable part of the learning process?


I think I may have surmised where our differences lie. Our views of what teachers are/do are completely different. You seem to be viewing this at a strictly institutional view while I'm looking at the general term teacher/mentor. Society was built upon knowledge that has been passed down through the ages. People once relied on their elders to share knowledge or impart wisdom to their communities. Aristotle would have never been who we know him as without Plato's instruction and Plato without his teacher, Socrates. Might I also point out that books published on subjects of study are mostly written by, you guessed it, teachers/professors. I would consider that as another way that they help instruct the public.

Anyway, I do agree with your view of institutional learning. I think I can understand now where you are coming from.
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25 / M / Iowa
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Posted 4/18/14


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22 / M / Chicago, IL
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Posted 4/18/14
Whenever I'm clue-less about the things they're telling me, I usually say, "I'm sorry. I couldn't understand you more clearly" or, "I'm sorry, but could you explain or rephrase on what you're trying to say" I say those things in a polite manner. Same to my friends at times.
foovay 
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57 / F / Truth or Conseque...
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Posted 4/18/14
Ignorant and proud of it. I know way too many people like this. Don't know, and don't want to be bothered to learn. Leave me alone, Wrestling is on. My in-laws are a prime example of this kind of person.

Now me, if I don't know or don't understand I'm all over it. I get one question and spend days doing research trying to find the answer.

But that's me - is that some sort of moral high ground? I don't know. But I do know people who know more are much more interesting to be around, get a lot more done (when they aren't up to the eyeballs in research - LOL), and are the ones who invent the widget to solve that problem, or can't find the answer so spend years in research and come up with a cure for polio.
foovay 
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Posted 4/18/14 , edited 4/18/14

isisprince wrote:


LightningChocobo wrote:
Okay, I am starting to see your point of view: you don't consider teachers 'unimportant'. You appreciate them as an added source to help people learn. However, you consider self-teaching to be more useful. Correct?


For me, self-teaching is more useful. I would rather a book, YouTube, or natural discovery. I have no personal use for a teacher. It might be different for somebody else.


I went to a pretty bad school district. Some teachers just did not care. Some were even angry when I was smarter or more knowledgable on a subject than they were. But there were - even in the pits - a few really bright stars of teaching who never got the credit, support or appreciation they deserved. But believe me, I remember every one of them with love.

Teachers, like every other profession on earth, have great teachers, mediocre teachers, and awful teachers. The problem lies in that in most places you've got to deal with all of them to get that certificate, diploma, whatever. Self taught is great - I'm largely self taught - but the problem with that is when I go to get a job in a field I know well, I'm not asked what I know, I'm asked to show that certificate or diploma. Now with all the self learning available online, and people here in the U.S. teaching their own children at home, that may change in the future. We can hope.

Meanwhile, enjoy the great teachers, make the best of the mediocre ones, and try to endure the awful ones if you are wanting to go into any field where they are going to ask for that diploma. And in the meantime, educate yourself as well.

For a lot of people, that's too much like work. They whine "I don't know/I don't understand" and that's the end of that and they spend their life plugging away at some factory job and eating cheetos in front of the TV at night.

Isn't it interesting that the anime fans seem to have a bit more iniative than that. Are we smarter?

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Posted 4/19/14

isisprince wrote:


unravelsslowly wrote:
Teaching is such a difficult and honorable occupation and SHOULD be the highest paid.


Why should teaching be the highest-paid?


Because they are who your parents rely on to teach you for a good portion of your life.
Consider that you'll probably live to 80… from age 5 to 18 you are in school.. So you're looking at like 20% of your life...
Most parents don't have the luxury of working from home.
So they send you to a school so you can learn while they are at work..
Basically it takes a village to raise a child, and teachers play such a huge role in physical, and mental and even spiritual development in children. Children are the future.
I'd really love for the govt to use money for heavy teacher screening.
Like as in actually making sure these people actually love to teach and are brilliant at it.
Making sure they aren't crazy/abusive/mentally deranged/pious and overly vindictive personalities. ETC.
Then it would very much be worth paying them well.

I'm very much an advocate of private tutors too. The internet is amazing but there's nothing that can replace actually having someone show you a concept especially if you're a visual/tactile learner.

Anyway. I personally feel like i'd rather my kid go to a school where there are a few very good well paid teachers and the classes are large vs sending them somewhere that has a lot of lethargic mediocre teachers with smaller classes who just want to teach from their text book and shit on kid's self-esteem when they don't understand. (not directed at the OP)

And ultimately while you can learn a lot from the internet. We're talking young kids here. They need actual supervision care and even love. Something that the internet can't do.
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Posted 4/19/14
I believe coaching>teaching. You don't know what your students are doing with the information if the instruction is one-sided.
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M / Buttermilk
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Posted 4/19/14
Long story short it's up to the student AND the teacher to take the next step after I don't know. It cannot be one sided.
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22 / M
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Posted 4/19/14 , edited 4/19/14
First off..
"I don't understand," and "I can't" are two very different things..
Sometimes I don't understand the weird phrases my conductors say, like: "play the song like butter," but that doesn't mean I can't do it.

Now, on to what the main idea is..
I definitely agree that a someone's lack in motivation should not be an excuse, but it's just how it is for many schools. In my old schools before coming to America, you'd never hear "I don't understand" as an excuse, rather, it's a phrase that is synonymous with "please teach me."

Here at this school, I was actually surprised when one of my peers got off the hook for demonstrating an integral calculus problem by simply saying "I don't know how to do it yet." It made me feel like I've worked hard in school, which is a very awkward transition for me since music (right next to visual novels, anime, etc.) is all I cared about.

I really wish I could have stayed in Kyōto because of this, since I'm basically paying close to 四百万円 per year to go here.. Some school this is..
Posted 4/19/14
Sometimes I feel like I'm the only one who actually reads through a thread instead of just reading the title / first post.
Posted 4/19/14
Evil acts, kind acts. Anarchy, war. Dirty politicians, clean kings. We are all nothing but stupid puppets.
Posted 4/20/14

Riesel wrote:

Evil acts, kind acts. Anarchy, war. Dirty politicians, clean kings. We are all nothing but stupid puppets.


You're my puppet.
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20 / F / UK
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Posted 4/20/14
not everyone understands everything the first time. y'know there are people out there that genuinely don't understand and don't get it. it should go without saying that, as a teacher, you try and explain it or assist them further, without having the added 'can you explain' on the end.
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20 / F / UK
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Posted 4/20/14

tsun wrote:

you'd never hear "I don't understand" as an excuse, rather, it's a phrase that is synonymous with "please teach me."



this is exactly what i was trying to say.
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