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Post Reply Why Oreimo is a better story backwards.
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Posted 4/17/14 , edited 4/17/14

Koda89
I could easily turn around and say that people were so invested in seeing their favorite girl win that they choose to ignore the rather obvious signs of attraction between the two. You even said that you noticed the incest hints but choose to see them only as gags that didn't mean anything. You interpreted those "gags" wrong because you choose to look at them at face value and not at their deeper meaning.
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They put obvious signs of attraction for every female character.

- Kyousuke harasses Ayase to go out with him all the time.

- Kyousuke goes out of his way to help Kuroneko fit in, and even dates her.

- Kyousuke has glasses fetish erotica magazines that he hides under his bed, and his best friend, that he spends most of his time with is a girl with glasses.

If you're saying his sister is the obvious route you're kidding yourself. There are hints here and there that support every female character EXCEPT Kirino.

A brother repairing the relationship he has with his sister and exploring what it means to be an Otaku would be a compelling story line by it self. However the series abandons basic narrative structure to shoehorn in an incestuous love interest that makes the least amount of sense of all his options in the first place, even if you exclude the incest.

For example all the things that he likes about Kirino, Ayase also has. She's beautiful, smart, and hardworking. Ayase is basically Kirino but with out her unhealthy habits which Kyousuke doesn't really like anyways. As he pretty much only plays Eroge when his sister harasses him to play in the first place. Yet he does not choose her, and shes even nice to him before he attempts to repair her relationship with his sister by making himself the villain. So the only real difference is that Kirino is his sister. Is that what he likes about her? No outstanding qualities except for sharing DNA?
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Posted 4/17/14

qualeshia3 wrote:

Isn't Japan like most countries that have no problem with incest?



They don't care if its with cousins. However, everything else is still taboo.
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Posted 4/17/14
Gotta admit when I first watched Oreimo was when I was inexperienced with anime so I was surprised/disturbed when the incestaroo started kicking in but now I'm immune to that sht so it's all good
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Posted 4/17/14

EJHicks wrote:


maxgale wrote:
Because the series was focused on their actual relationship as siblings, ones who had distance between them. The incest thing was treated as a gag and was not portrayed to be taken seriously.


The show even admitted that Kirinos' pervy otaku habits were indeed harmful, the MC admitted that his father was right to worry about his daughter for playing eroge as a young teen. It showed the isolation that could come about from fully delving into otaku culture.


It seems everyone who just gets offended by others having problems with incest always use the "but it was in the title all aloooooooong!" defense, but either they were watching an entirely different show, or didn't choose to pick up on the actual story as it was being portrayed because they were so invested in seeing Kirino get boned by her brother.


So yeah, people are naturally going to be miffed when the story then turns around and gives them the middle finger.

Or, put in another way:


To show did to viewers what Kuroneko did to the MC.


I could easily turn around and say that people were so invested in seeing their favorite girl win that they choose to ignore the rather obvious signs of attraction between the two. You even said that you noticed the incest hints but choose to see them only as gags that didn't mean anything. You interpreted those "gags" wrong because you choose to look at them at face value and not at their deeper meaning.


Koda89 wrote:

Because when I read that title I didn't read "cute" as in the "Wow, I'm kind of attracted to them" cute, I read it as in the "D'aww that's so adorable!" type of cute.


But after episode 1, it's painfully obvious that Kirino is in no way the latter. If you thought Kirino was adorable after episode 1, then we have very different meanings of the word 'adorable.'



Except it's not that I chose to see the story that way, it was objectively being that way. Kirino originally wasn't tsundere, she was just simply disgusted whenever the incest thing was brought up, and repeated the "don't confuse 2D for 3D" argument typical of otaku eroge fans. (The fact the series went on to ignore this is a prime example of the show jarringly changing its narrative). When Kirino and her bro did the typical "falling and awkwardly groping" gag, the reactions of her pals was the payoff of the joke by how absurd they were being in seeing incestuous vibes to the scene, which informed the audience they were also to treat the incest thing as a gag. Part of Ayases' entire character was to be an absurd reaction to the idea of incest between the siblings, once more informing the audience as to the nature of it being a joke.

I don't think most fans were invested in a "best girl" winning until S2, when the show actually started to become a harem, because S1 was all about the nature of the non-romantic sibling relationship between Kirino and her bro.

Speaking of deeper meanings, part of what makes so many disappointed in the show is entirely how it changed gears from exploring a relationship / family and familial dynamics not often explored in anime, and doing it well, to what it became.
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Posted 4/17/14

maxgale wrote:
Except it's not that I chose to see the story that way, it was objectively being that way. Kirino originally wasn't tsundere, she was just simply disgusted whenever the incest thing was brought up, and repeated the "don't confuse 2D for 3D" argument typical of otaku eroge fans. (The fact the series went on to ignore this is a prime example of the show jarringly changing its narrative). When Kirino and her bro did the typical "falling and awkwardly groping" gag, the reactions of her pals was the payoff of the joke by how absurd they were being in seeing incestuous vibes to the scene, which informed the audience they were also to treat the incest thing as a gag. Part of Ayases' entire character was to be an absurd reaction to the idea of incest between the siblings, once more informing the audience as to the nature of it being a joke.

I don't think most fans were invested in a "best girl" winning until S2, when the show actually started to become a harem, because S1 was all about the nature of the non-romantic sibling relationship between Kirino and her bro.

Speaking of deeper meanings, part of what makes so many disappointed in the show is entirely how it changed gears from exploring a relationship / family and familial dynamics not often explored in anime, and doing it well, to what it became.


Well said. I agree with your take that it was more about family and bonds in the first arc, and the incest stuff was played for laughs. Honestly, I thought the first arc was phenomenal and had some of the best character dynamics I've ever seen in anime. Then the second arc deviated from that feeling somewhat to become just like an eroge visual novel where you have to choose a girl. Kyousuke was only a caring older brother with innocent feelings for his sister until he developed more romantic ones for her in the second arc. Kirino always had brocon feelings under the surface but used eroge as a means of escaping from the reality it was a forbidden love.

Both of them realized their feelings were not healthy and they would be scorned if they acted on them. However, Kyousuke, because he realized how much he truly cared for his sister, gave her a fleeting fantasy so she could move past her obsession with him. I'm still somewhat unsure if Kyousuke developed a genuine unhealthy obsession with his sister based on how things played out in the first arc, but I can sort of see the time they spent together getting closer as siblings as fostering that possibility in retrospect. I don't think that's quite how he felt about her, though, and that he was more concerned with her well being than anything.

Because he cared about her getting over her brocon, he chose to indulge her fantasy for a time as a means of "life counseling." Him cutting ties with the other girls to pick her was giving her the symbolic brother she looked up to and wished would never leave her for another girl all those years ago. That "honeymoon" period was essentially their last "life counseling" session that would cure her of her brocon by showing her it's only meant to be a fantasy and not something beneficial for either of them; basically, a learn your lesson the hard way by giving you the thing that's bad for you so you realize it's bad approach.

Their relationship never seemed, to me at least, that it was passionate or even sexual in nature, rather it was them reconnecting as close siblings one last time before they set out on their adult life separately. Their kiss blurs things a bit, and I wonder how much romantic feelings Kyousuke had for her then if any? Without it, though, she may not have been fully cured, so I can see it either way really. The show's earlier messages and themes never sold me on Kyousuke having genuine romantic feelings for Kirino, so I choose to see it as him being, an unorthodox, life counselor one last time.
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Posted 4/17/14

Man_Of_Leisure wrote:

What annoys me the most is they go to the trouble to dispel stereotypes about Otakus being perverts and that the real world and fantasy are separate and then they throw it all in the trash by admitting that Kirino's hobby was not just harmless fantasy but an outlet for her unhealthy unresolved feelings with her brother, which they later embrace.

To me the story makes the most sense if you just skip the second season. If it ends where Kyousuke comes to the U.S to pick up Kirino because she's not doing well, then it basically shows that their relationship has come full circle, and that they're close like they were when they were kids. At this point the back story that Kirino and Manami got into a fight because Manami said she couldn't marry her brother is dismissable as Kirino being a young child and not fully understanding what she is saying, and Manami straightening her out on the subject.


Thank you, headcanon accepted. That's a very smart way to think about it.
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Posted 4/17/14

Angerudusto wrote:


Felstalker wrote:

My close relationship with my younger sister gives me the experience to say both ending are horrible. The se one is especially needlessly dark.

What ever happened to siblings justbeing siblings?

Why does fiction assume only twins are similar? Good strong sibling bonds and shit.

No game no life looks to be doing it right this season.


I just assume that the whole imouto-onii chan trend was started and is maintained by people that don't have younger sisters.


Hahaha That reminds me of a Manga I enjoy, SHINOZAKI-SAN KI O OTA SHIKA NI! in which the Okatu friends of the brother keep implying that he has an incestual relationship with his sister, and the brother says the exact same thing!
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Posted 4/17/14

PsychoGamer8229 wrote:


qualeshia3 wrote:

Isn't Japan like most countries that have no problem with incest?



They don't care if its with cousins. However, everything else is still taboo.



Interesting.
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Posted 4/17/14

Chofrizzy wrote:

Gotta admit when I first watched Oreimo was when I was inexperienced with anime so I was surprised/disturbed when the incestaroo started kicking in but now I'm immune to that sht so it's all good


Pretty much this for me... Heck, I even enjoyed Season 2 overall up until the OVAs, because it could still be taken as Kyousuke and Kirino becoming close as siblings in a non-romantic, non-incest kind of way. (from what I can remember... It's a been a while since I last saw the anime) The OVAs took it to that next level that, while interesting to watch at the time, left a bad taste in my mouth.

I mean, they decided to break off their thing after a month (?) of "dating" and then the very end implied that they were still together! *sigh* Forwards, if you include the OVAs for Season 2, I don't think I really enjoyed the story. Backwards, it just ends up being a depressing story about two siblings growing apart.

I like good sibling relationships when, you know, they're actually platonic and not romantic/sexual at all. -_- That's what made me like the series for what it was.
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Posted 4/17/14

qualeshia3 wrote:


PsychoGamer8229 wrote:


qualeshia3 wrote:

Isn't Japan like most countries that have no problem with incest?



They don't care if its with cousins. However, everything else is still taboo.



Interesting.


this is what i don't get about japan cousins are ok but everything else isn't allowed it doesn't make that much sense really
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Posted 4/17/14

Fazejaden wrote:


qualeshia3 wrote:


PsychoGamer8229 wrote:


qualeshia3 wrote:

Isn't Japan like most countries that have no problem with incest?



They don't care if its with cousins. However, everything else is still taboo.



Interesting.


this is what i don't get about japan cousins are ok but everything else isn't allowed it doesn't make that much sense really


I and others have already touched on this, but marriage between first cousins is legal in most of the world, including 25 states in the USA. It's generally just a social taboo. Einstein married his first cousin. As for scientific reasoning, I don't feel like citing anything so I suggest you research it yourself if you want to know more, however generally the genetic similarity between siblings is significantly higher than between first cousins.
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Posted 4/17/14

Fazejaden wrote:


qualeshia3 wrote:


PsychoGamer8229 wrote:


qualeshia3 wrote:

Isn't Japan like most countries that have no problem with incest?



They don't care if its with cousins. However, everything else is still taboo.



Interesting.


this is what i don't get about japan cousins are ok but everything else isn't allowed it doesn't make that much sense really


I guess its because the DNA is different enough to be considered okay. Also, did you know that cousin marriage is legal in Canada?
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Posted 4/17/14
Alright yeah! I Really hated how Oreimo ended up from being a great show to being such a dissapointment it felt like someone else wrote and directed the other half of the series including the novels :O
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Posted 4/17/14



Don't really get it either.
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Posted 4/18/14

just to clarify is it just first cousins what about 2nd cousins that's what has me confused because a lot of people say it's only 1st cousins
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