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Post Reply Why Oreimo is a better story backwards.
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Posted 5/15/14

TsunLemon wrote:


sundin13 wrote:
Seems like the OP disliked the incest ending, but in all honesty, the ending was just bad from pretty much any perspective

Oreimo would have been a better story if it was a better story...


It was a great story, just a crappy ending.


It was a decent story, but Kirino was far too difficult to like and the ending was one of the worst endings I have ever seen...
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Posted 5/15/14

sundin13 wrote:


TsunLemon wrote:


sundin13 wrote:
Seems like the OP disliked the incest ending, but in all honesty, the ending was just bad from pretty much any perspective

Oreimo would have been a better story if it was a better story...


It was a great story, just a crappy ending.


It was a decent story, but Kirino was far too difficult to like and the ending was one of the worst endings I have ever seen...


Well yes, the ending was pretty crap. But for me, I dislike it cuz the way it ended it's the same way it would've ended if the story was actually true. The norms of society are one of the most disgusting things in existence.

So you didn't like Kirino? I thought she was a fun character for the most part, and a perfect match for Kyousuke.
Kanako was clearly best girl tho.
For me the only character I hated on the series was Manami, hated her from the start, and after hearing what she did to Kirino, she seriously made me rage.
xxJing 
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Posted 5/15/14

bathroom64 wrote:


TsunLemon wrote:
I still don't get it. Is everyone hating on OreImo because of wincest ending or because the damn "norms of society" made it turn into what it did?

I think most are turned off by the fact that he picked his sister, then trolled them. So basically the author made everyone hate the series when:
1) He didn't pick the girl they wanted
2) If you were a Kirino fan, you got trolled

I think that is the only explanation if they were ok with the incest, but still hated the anime. Idk.


I am pretty sure people would have been satisfied with whatever girl he ended up with, as long as it wasn't Kirino.
I am an Ayase fan personally. However, regardless of whether Kyousuke ended up with Manami, Kuroneko, or Saori instead, I'd have been decently pleased. Oh I forgot about Kanako. Well honestly, a Kanako or Manami ending might have been a little boring to tell you the truth. Would totally want to see a Saori or Kuroneko ending though.
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Posted 5/15/14
I liked all of the characters, so for me, it's the fact that no one ends up happy. Basically, it's the juxtaposition of successfully creating characters one can care about along with a surprising amount of suspension of disbelief, considering the subject matter...and then ruining it all with what almost seems like malice towards the audience as well as the characters. Now, that's entertainment!

But I still liked the show. I guess the vibe one can sense sometimes is that there are those who hate the ending but love the show as a whole, and those for whom the ending retroactively destroyed all enjoyment. I fall into the former category.

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Posted 5/15/14
Gotta agree with the guy who made the thread.....


















........I think MC liked working backwards on his imouto as well.
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Posted 5/15/14

TsunLemon wrote:


sundin13 wrote:

It was a decent story, but Kirino was far too difficult to like and the ending was one of the worst endings I have ever seen...


Well yes, the ending was pretty crap. But for me, I dislike it cuz the way it ended it's the same way it would've ended if the story was actually true. The norms of society are one of the most disgusting things in existence.

So you didn't like Kirino? I thought she was a fun character for the most part, and a perfect match for Kyousuke.
Kanako was clearly best girl tho.
For me the only character I hated on the series was Manami, hated her from the start, and after hearing what she did to Kirino, she seriously made me rage.


The execution of the confession was just ridiculous and pretty stupid and the way they went about everything afterwards was just blegh. If you want to see an actually good show about incest, go watch Koi Kaze.

Kirino was too much tsun, not enough dere. She seemed to be pretty unbearable most of the time and while her relationship obviously improved with her brother, there was nothing that really indicated that a romance was possible. Especially from his side. Falling in love with siblings doesn't just happen simply, it takes a lot more than what was shown in the show (once again, watch Koi Kaze).

A lot of the side characters were actually really enjoyable. I really liked a lot of things about the relationship with Kuroneko, however, those side characters (other than Kuroneko) were not developed enough for me to care about them.

The flashback scene with Manami was fine, but her confrontation/fight scene was cringe-worthy. Once again, I liked how she was established as "just a friend" early and clearly friend zoned, but the show decided to just throw that away at the ending too.

I personally have no problem with the incest end, and if it was handled with more care then I wouldn't have complained. With romance shows, the payoff needs to be greater than all the pain that resulted leading up to it and the payoff was just "meh" at best while pretty much every other character had their heart broken...Toradora is a prime example of this, a lot of characters have to get their hearts broken on the way but it handles each matter with care and the payoff was one of the best conclusions to a romance show I have seen yet.

I personally think the show should've gone with multiple endings. If the second season was handled better, they could have shipped an ending for at least the three main girls which would make pretty much everybody happy and fall into the motif of the ero-games that were a central focus of the show...missed opportunity imo.
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Posted 8/17/14 , edited 8/17/14
Pardon the necromancy of this thread, but I really feel that the best ending would have been one where their friendships are patched and their bond as siblings restored. The picture Kuroneko had drawn in her notebook (Destiny Record) was honestly a very nice image that could have very well been developed and put in as an ending. Watching the OVAs just really ruined this entire series for me, because I had a hint that it would go that way, but I figured it was about the bond between siblings as siblings, and nothing more. All of the incestuous events that happened were portrayed as either a joke or fan service, and it seemed nothing happened between the two that was very indicative of a strong romantic interest between the two .Having just finished this series yesterday, including the OVA, I feel I should have never seen the OVA, it really wrecked my idea of where the anime was going.

Apologies for the rant, it has just been chewing at the edge of my brain for the last day since I finished the series.
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Posted 8/18/14

Just to point out a plot point involving Kuroneco:


sonic720 wrote:


maxgale wrote:
Except it's not that I chose to see the story that way, it was objectively being that way. Kirino originally wasn't tsundere, she was just simply disgusted whenever the incest thing was brought up, and repeated the "don't confuse 2D for 3D" argument typical of otaku eroge fans. (The fact the series went on to ignore this is a prime example of the show jarringly changing its narrative). When Kirino and her bro did the typical "falling and awkwardly groping" gag, the reactions of her pals was the payoff of the joke by how absurd they were being in seeing incestuous vibes to the scene, which informed the audience they were also to treat the incest thing as a gag. Part of Ayases' entire character was to be an absurd reaction to the idea of incest between the siblings, once more informing the audience as to the nature of it being a joke.

I don't think most fans were invested in a "best girl" winning until S2, when the show actually started to become a harem, because S1 was all about the nature of the non-romantic sibling relationship between Kirino and her bro.

Speaking of deeper meanings, part of what makes so many disappointed in the show is entirely how it changed gears from exploring a relationship / family and familial dynamics not often explored in anime, and doing it well, to what it became.


Well said. I agree with your take that it was more about family and bonds in the first arc, and the incest stuff was played for laughs. Honestly, I thought the first arc was phenomenal and had some of the best character dynamics I've ever seen in anime. Then the second arc deviated from that feeling somewhat to become just like an eroge visual novel where you have to choose a girl. Kyousuke was only a caring older brother with innocent feelings for his sister until he developed more romantic ones for her in the second arc. Kirino always had brocon feelings under the surface but used eroge as a means of escaping from the reality it was a forbidden love.

Both of them realized their feelings were not healthy and they would be scorned if they acted on them. However, Kyousuke, because he realized how much he truly cared for his sister, gave her a fleeting fantasy so she could move past her obsession with him. I'm still somewhat unsure if Kyousuke developed a genuine unhealthy obsession with his sister based on how things played out in the first arc, but I can sort of see the time they spent together getting closer as siblings as fostering that possibility in retrospect. I don't think that's quite how he felt about her, though, and that he was more concerned with her well being than anything.

Because he cared about her getting over her brocon, he chose to indulge her fantasy for a time as a means of "life counseling." Him cutting ties with the other girls to pick her was giving her the symbolic brother she looked up to and wished would never leave her for another girl all those years ago. That "honeymoon" period was essentially their last "life counseling" session that would cure her of her brocon by showing her it's only meant to be a fantasy and not something beneficial for either of them; basically, a learn your lesson the hard way by giving you the thing that's bad for you so you realize it's bad approach.

Their relationship never seemed, to me at least, that it was passionate or even sexual in nature, rather it was them reconnecting as close siblings one last time before they set out on their adult life separately. Their kiss blurs things a bit, and I wonder how much romantic feelings Kyousuke had for her then if any? Without it, though, she may not have been fully cured, so I can see it either way really. The show's earlier messages and themes never sold me on Kyousuke having genuine romantic feelings for Kirino, so I choose to see it as him being, an unorthodox, life counselor one last time.


I think this is what was happening as well, although he screws himself in the end he obviously believed it was worth it. But this is exactly what Kuroneko was trying to accomplish as well, she was the only one who saw right through the whole thing if anyone cared to notice.


alfonsojon wrote:

Pardon the necromancy of this thread, but I really feel that the best ending would have been one where their friendships are patched and their bond as siblings restored. The picture Kuroneko had drawn in her notebook (Destiny Record) was honestly a very nice image that could have very well been developed and put in as an ending.


Kuroneko was attempting to play along/assist with helping to end the "relationship" between them. She was honest with her feelings but held herself back, that's why she came up with the "Destiny Record" idea. With that she was able to get in all the things she wanted to do so she could have her "special" memories with Kyousuke and end it before she got hurt. All the while however you could plainly see that at the end of it all he would chose her. That's also why when she first drew that picture in her book Kuroneko had Kyousuke and Kirino together happy, she was showing her support for them (proof she saw through the whole thing) and the finishing it with all three of them together happy (wishing again proof of mission accomplished and hopeful she was chosen).


With that they never actually shown or really said that Kyousuke and Kuroneko had no chance afterwards, I mean as I explained... She knew what was going on and even kinda "gave the example" by saying she didn't mind and would accept it for what it was. It was her plan of attack and I'm inclined to believe she would've got her man if they went a bit further, with Kirino's blessing to boot.

You guys can argue all you want about it but, this is how I see it and that's more or less how they showed it. There was a lot of things going on and it's amazing what people miss when focused on the intentional misdirects.. lol

xxJing 
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Posted 8/18/14
The story of Oreimo was fine. The whole sudden shift from, I love my sister as a sister, to I love my sister as a woman is what ruined the end of it. He should have just gotten back together with Kuroneko and Kirino should have grown up. That would be the best ending. If Kuroneko hadn't been such an important part of his character, then I would have wanted an Ayase ending. But Kuroneko was just too important to the story.

This is one series that really shouldn't have gone down the incest path. There are plenty of other series that specialize in that and do it so much better.
Posted 8/18/14 , edited 8/18/14
Sorry to quote old discussions, but I want to be a part of the discussion, too!


I never thought about that, the story does work both ways. And in reverse it does make more sense. I like it forwards, though, just for the sole fact that it's kind of taboo which makes it a lil more interesting in my opinion.


Man_Of_Leisure wrote:

What annoys me the most is they go to the trouble to dispel stereotypes about Otakus being perverts and that the real world and fantasy are separate and then they throw it all in the trash by admitting that Kirino's hobby was not just harmless fantasy but an outlet for her unhealthy unresolved feelings with her brother, which they later embrace.


Haha, oh man you're right. I didn't realize it while watching it, but the creators kind of shitted on their own ideas.


xxJing wrote:

Oreimo is weird because it is good because it is bad, but it is also bad because it is bad.


Totally agreed!


xxJing wrote:If he ended up with Saori, actually I think this probably would have been the most interesting of the tasteful outcomes.


I'm not doubting you, but what indicators were there that Kyouske might end up with Saori? Only thing I can think of is how often he'd talk to Saori about his relationship with Kirino, but even then that isn't a whole lot.


maxgale wrote:




Because the series was focused on their actual relationship as siblings, ones who had distance between them. The incest thing was treated as a gag and was not portrayed to be taken seriously.


That was my impression at first too, and the only reason I started to watch the show. Because I thought it was just meant to be gags and strictly a family kind of love, not a lover kind of love. Never thought I'd enjoy a show about incest ......


maxgale wrote:
To show did to viewers what Kuroneko did to the MC.


That's a good way of putting it, haha. I still really enjoyed the show, though


Koda89 wrote:


EJHicks wrote:



Because when I read that title I didn't read "cute" as in the "Wow, I'm kind of attracted to them" cute, I read it as in the "D'aww that's so adorable!" type of cute.


Same.


Koda89 wrote:The problem is, season 2's mere existence showed that the OVAs, despite being OVAs, are part of the whole and need to be counted when forming your opinion of the show. What I mean by that is, the second season follows the events of the first season's OVAs, meaning the non-OVA ending to season 1 essentially didn't happen. All of the important events that set up the second season happened in the OVAs.


Yeah, I watched this show on Crunchyroll and was seriously confused when I started watching Season 2. I'm glad I looked up the episode list on wiki.


Man_Of_Leisure wrote:So the only real difference is that Kirino is his sister. Is that what he likes about her? No outstanding qualities except for sharing DNA?


My personal reasoning as to why Kyousuke fell in love with his sister is because of the work he had to put into the relationship to get any kind of affection from her. I know that's not the best reasoning, but it makes sense to me. *shrugs*


alfonsojon wrote:Pardon the necromancy of this thread, but I really feel that the best ending would have been one where their friendships are patched and their bond as siblings restored. The picture Kuroneko had drawn in her notebook (Destiny Record) was honestly a very nice image that could have very well been developed and put in as an ending.


Yeah, this is where I thought the show was headed as well. When I got into Season 2 I wasn't completely sold on Kyousuke being with Ruri. I originally wanted him to end up with Manami because she's so nice, and also because it's kind of the most comfortable ending. HOWEVER, I really wanted Kyousuke x Ruri to stay after I watched the episodes of them dating and the realization of the Destiny Record. Ruri is cute, and the Destiny Record idea is so sweet <3. Totally agree it would have made a great ending, but I really don't mind how it actually ended.


alfonsojon wrote:Apologies for the rant, it has just been chewing at the edge of my brain for the last day since I finished the series.


Exactly why I made this mega-quote post
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Posted 8/18/14
This series would have been really good if the MC ended up with Kuroneko. My heart was crushed when he turned down kuroneko And finally at the end i was thinking "why did i watch this in the first place" .
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Posted 8/18/14

Catlife wrote:

This series would have been really good if the MC ended up with Kuroneko. My heart was crushed when he turned down kuroneko And finally at the end i was thinking "why did i watch this in the first place" .


Plus after season 1 I recommended it to a lot of people. The shame.
Posted 9/7/14
I liked the story the way it was ( not the biggest fan of the insest tho ) but seeing tithe other way around would be intresting maybe one day someone could write a fan-fiction on that.
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Posted 9/26/14
I agree with xxJing mostly


Oreimo is weird because it is good because it is bad, but it is also bad because it is bad. The author wrote this in probably the most bleak and realistic fashion he could have, everything turned out like shit, as you would expect it to. That is good writing, primarily because other people are afraid to tackle a story in that fashion.

On the other hand, because he decided to write it that way it totally destroys the respect you have for some characters. I didn't know it was possible, but I hated Kirino at the end of the show more than at the beginning. Now that is progress, when you can cause crap to regress.
While I started off liking Kyousuke, I thought he was a complete idiot by the end of the story. The story would have been more pleasing if Kyousuke had chosen ANY of the girls other than Kirino. If he broke up with Kuroneko to be with Ayase, it would have worked. If he realized he liked Manami, cliche but would have worked. If he ended up with Saori, actually I think this probably would have been the most interesting of the tasteful outcomes.

The author however decided to use his balls instead of his heart, and went toward a rather destructive ending. I respect him for it, but at the same time I feel like it was a waste.


And also alfonsojon


I had a hint that it would go that way, but I figured it was about the bond between siblings as siblings, and nothing more.


I really felt like I grew from watching this anime...... At first. I liked and enjoyed the theme and I think that's what drew most of us to this anime. I grew so ATTACHED to the fictional characters and I'll admit I really hated the ending. I so much enjoyed the REALISM and heart of this one, and noticed it went light on some annoying common anime tropes e.g. "fan sevice". (Which I see as VERY annoying).

I'll still say I grew from this anime, I believe the ending with the very "PUBLIC EMBARRASSMENT" represents somthing common to all fans of this genre. Haha



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Posted 8/21/15

Felstalker wrote:

My close relationship with my younger sister gives me the experience to say both ending are horrible. The se one is especially needlessly dark.

What ever happened to siblings justbeing siblings?

Why does fiction assume only twins are similar? Good strong sibling bonds and shit.

No game no life looks to be doing it right this season.


The industry got taken over by perverts.
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