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Teaching Christianity is Child Abuse
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32 / M / Atlanta, GA
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Posted 4/21/14 , edited 4/21/14

Canute wrote:

I think that the best thing to do would simply be to take the government out of education. Every group is accusing the other side of indoctrination; so, why not run schools based on ideology or religion? We already have parochial schools and Classical schools--the former running on the belief that students should be grounded in Catholic theology and practices, while the latter feels that people should be thoroughly grounded in the study of Western Civilization: the Classics, Latin, and Ancient Greek. Both programs are designed to produce a specific kind of individual, whom the people running the school feel would make the best citizen.

But, we also see the same thing in public schools. After all, the mention of God is banished from the classrooms except in the Pledge of Allegiance. And evolution is taught as dogma. (I am not saying that evolution is false here, but that people who question it are laughed at as ignorant. There's no chance for debate, but questioning evolution is rejected out of hand. The same attitude atheists claim religious persons have toward our own dogma.) Atheists, in the name of fairness and religious tolerance, have essentially made public schools a vehicle for teaching Secular Humanism.

So, its seems impossible to avoid a philosophical or religious bias when educating children. In a more homogenous society--say Spain in the 1600's, one could deliver all children a Catholic, Classical, and Thomistic education without anyone batting an eye. In 21st century America, it is impossible to give a uniform education to please everyone. Education has always been a kind of indoctrination, which is why the Left moved to seize colleges in the 60's and 70's. But, to educate people in a Catholic environment is no more brainwashing than educating them in a Secular Humanist environment. Let's just provide everyone vouchers, allow parents to influence what they want their children to be taught in schools, and be done with public education!

Why not run schools based on ideology? I agree. I've always wanted to open schools teaching satanism and should totally be allowed.

Also, intelligent design is rejected outright because it's not science. It presents no testable hypotheses, provides no insight into how any natural phenomena works, and gives us nothing we can actually use to further our knowledge. All it says it that things appear to have a designer and have not been the result of a natural process (one they consider "random"). It really appears that it only exists to counter evolution. It's entire existence is owed the fact that a few who believe the bible must be interpreted literally don't want to admit we might be descended from the same ancestors as monkeys and not "made in God's image" like the bible states.

If I were a Christian, especially a Catholic, I wound find it more objectionable that brand of protestantism wants to take that sort of line so literally and ignore other important pieces of the bible when formulating their beliefs (e.g. their "faith alone" statement that has so many contradicting lines through the bible).
-oyaji 
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Posted 4/21/14
You know, all this bickering about who is right and who is wrong is all completely moot. We are already past the point of no return. The ecology is crashing, the planet is dying. There is a finite amount of resources with an indefinite amount of human population growth. When does the inevitable breaking point come? When are we no longer fighting wars over ideology or oil, but wars for food and water?
We've destroyed this world and it was done by both the religious and the secular.

That aside, is teaching Christianity child abuse? I guess it depends on the degree of fanaticism that's taught. For me, it boils down to whether hatred is being instilled in the child or not. Having your child holding signs that say "God hates something" is harmful to the child, society, Christianity.
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Posted 4/22/14 , edited 4/22/14
Personally, I think classes on all religions should be offered and made optional. I went to a couple of high schools which had mandatory "bible study" type classes and it wasn't a big deal. I didn't enjoy going to the classes, as they were those kind of classes you just have to go to. Regardless, I'm Christian, I don't mind. There is absolutely nothing wrong with learning about other religions. In fact, I think it's a great thing to learn about other religions, as it enables you to understand other people more.
Posted 4/22/14 , edited 4/22/14

Fredericwb wrote:

Personally, I think classes on all religions should be offered and made optional.



College offers it. My university did, anyways.

I don't think it is child abuse, pretty sure I responded to this topic before, but there is no room for it with public funding.


*Edit
not in the mood to talk about public universities or clarify I meant K-12. All these people wanting to take classes - go pay tuition - take it as an elective. Plenty of colleges have classes that non-major students can take after enrolling as a non-degree student.
Posted 4/23/14
No, but I like how you used that as the thing people see for the topic. Way to conjure up emotion, you are a phony dumpling, always have been, always will be.
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Posted 4/24/14
I think calling it child abuse is stretching it.

Honestly, I'm of the opinion that in a state run school, creationism needs to be kept in a comparative religion class and out of science. I'm NOT saying not teach it all together because kids need to be well armed when faced with society but the two need to be separated. The reason being that evolution and biology can be proven whereas creationism is more of a belief and less of a science.

If you're in/running a private religious school then you have free reign to do as you will.

In a public school, however, scientific theories and more theological theories should be kept separate so the lines don't get skewed.
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25 / M / Somewhere.... per...
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Posted 4/25/14
No, I don't think it is...
Teaching a child about any topic is a good thing...

The problem lies in indoctrination...
...Any form of mental control done to anybody is abusive...
Especially if the victim is a child that have absolutely no defence against it...
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23 / F / The MOOOON
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Posted 4/26/14
I don't think so but I guess when it's being forced like if my son asks me a question then i'll answer but i'm not going to force him to go to church with me because what I hate the most is people pushing their beliefs and whatnots on other people.
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36 / M / The Void.
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Posted 4/27/14 , edited 4/27/14
Don't blame the religion since since it is just a neutral tool, but blame the people that use it as a tool for evil.
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Posted 4/27/14

Humbert69 wrote:

No, but I like how you used that as the thing people see for the topic. Way to conjure up emotion, you are a phony dumpling, always have been, always will be.
I'm sorry the title wasn't to your liking. I would like to hear more about your honest opinion on this topic, please reply.
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Posted 4/28/14 , edited 4/28/14

Iconodule wrote:

Abuse implies a deliberate attempt to harm the child which I do not think any Christian parent who is a creationist wants to do to their children. Why are we confusing real abuse, beating, sexual violation and etc. of children with failure to teach a scientific theory over creationism? What does that make parents before the advent of modern science? Were all of them abusers? I don’t think so. There are actual and real types of child abuse, sexual, violent or bad treatment and it does us no good to conflate the teaching of creationism as abuse. It is not abuse, at worst it is a wrong idea concerning the history of earth and the universe and people have managed to live lives of tremendous good and importance without it along with a whole host of other scientific theories, historic facts or philosophical explanations of reality.

What harm is it other than them not knowing the general scientific theory of evolution? How does that abuse the child? Is lack of a certain knowledge abuse of the child? No doubt the argument will go something that evolution explains our society and how we arrived at current time we are at, granted but can't we say the same of Christianity? Philosophy? Literature? All of these things contributed to society we live in and yet how many children know about the influence of Christian Philosophy on the world we now have, how pervading it was not only in morality but in the world view which lead to the modern era? Not many and no one considers it abuse and quite alot of common people and not a few prominent people get this past history tremendously wrong

I quite frankly don't care if a parent teaches a child creationism or evolution, I am more concerned with history and care more about children understanding their background and how the west came to be as it is. I’m more concerned with teaching children how to be good people. If you want to ban it from schools, then do it, fight for it if you are so passionate about teaching the theory and some of the basic intricacies of that theory that students will forget a year after high school finishes( I know did, along with most of high school). It’s not abuse to not teach evolution or to teach creationism; at most it’s simply wrong and we tolerate a lot of false myths about history in society today which should be corrected if brought up and should be debated if the need arises.


Your very objective sir, and factual, thank you for that. While I myself am a christian by faith. And i wont pretend that I like anything Krauss spits out. He does have the right to believe that, and say it, though I don't think anyone should take his opinion seriously. Moreover I would argue that teaching unproven fiction is more damaging in general. That said if you go by those lines then neither subject should be taught in schools. What concerns me most though, is how people seem so eager to attack faith. Don't understand that, at the end of the day believing in science is still a form of faith. Often science is re-written for mistakes, and it is subject to lies and misinformation just as anything else is.
A reasonable person who thinks objectively should be just as cautious of science as anything else. The one thing that rings true is, if God is real, I would much rather trust him than any person I know.
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Posted 4/28/14
Depends on how it is taught. If it is shoved down the kid's throat without room of objection, then that's the parent not doing their job. There should be some leeway. I think children should learn about both creationism and evolution and chose which one they want to believe in. It makes them think about what they want to believe instead of a one sided argument of "You have to believe this" or "This is fact so you can't think it is wrong". I don't agree with fanatics and extremist views, but they are the loudest opinions to be heard. However, most people are in the middle and are like "Whatever makes you happy." If you believe then ok, if you don't then that's fine too. Believing in something different from your parents would get them upset, and it's a natural response

As for whether classes on these subjects should be taught in schools, it should be unrequired electives. That way, it would only bring in the people who genuinely want to learn instead of those who really don't give a crap. I went to a Catholic school for elementary school and I was taught both evolution and creationism. We even had debates on them. What I got out of it was that people will believe in whatever they want. Some people change their minds and some don't. Some people are better debaters. Still, just believe in what you personally think is right and be an awesome person (which is kind of the point of religions such as Christianity). Some of my classmates weren't even Catholics, but we got along fine.

For me personally, I believe in both evolution and creationism. I have pretty different views than my parents and they are fine with that. If I ever have kids and they believe in something different, I'll be ok with that. At least they are thinking for themselves.

Sorry about my rambling, just wanted to put my thoughts out there.
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18 / M / new york
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Posted 5/1/14
i know richard dawkins says that it is, and as much as i like him, i have to disagree. it definitely is verbal child abuse to tell your gay son or daughter that they will burn and be tortured after they die, or to tell your teenage daughter that she is a whore and will burn in hell for getting an abortion, but teaching your kids that a magic man in the sky built the earth doesn't exactly equate to beating the crap out of them.

as much as i think religious indoctrination is wrong, and can cause serious problems (eg. my situation where i went suicidal when i realized i was gay because i was told my whole life that gay people are disgusting), i don't think labeling religious parents as criminals is the way to solve it.
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22 / M / Oregon
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Posted 5/1/14
I believe children should be taught about religion in an educational way, just like any other historical/cultural study. If they have knowledge of a variety of different religions they will be free to choose whichever one best fits their own personal beliefs and views, or choose to not believe in any.

If parents choose to brainwash their child into a certain religion, it's their choice. Parents mold their children into whatever they want, it's up to the child to break through that mold.
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17 / M / Salt Lake City, Utah
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Posted 5/7/14 , edited 6/12/14
I believe teaching religion can be harmful, but it's not going to go away. I simply believe that teaching children about any religion is wrong in it's own way. I think it's wrong because it's teaching children about something uncertain, you can't prove or disprove a god no matter how hard you try. For some religious people out there they believe it's the truth, so it's not a bother to them that it has potential to be wrong, because they're so ignorant of the world that they have no other viewpoint than it being true. I could never think of teaching children about one viewpoint, and only one answer, with the potential of it being inaccurate. It's like saying smoking might be bad, and they are, but saying this is like advertising for stupidity. If everything in this world worked like the way religion works, then we as a collective won't survive.
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