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Should Anime fans be snootier?
Sogno- 
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Posted 4/18/14
ew you guys need to get some tissues
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32 / M / Downey California
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Posted 4/18/14
if you want ppl to critique anime you'll probably be mad at what they have to say about your favorites, everybody has their own tastes and personaly I don't want ppl trash talking something that gave me so much joy. instead of critics there should only be suggestionists where they suggest what ppl would like certain anime. like if you like harem anime you should check out "blah blah" or if you like rom coms you should check out "blah blah" that way nobodys favorite show gets shit on
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54 / M / Somewhere traveli...
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Posted 4/18/14
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Posted 4/18/14
I don't know about you guys, but I prefer to watch all my anime while wearing a monocle.
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27 / M / USA
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Posted 4/18/14 , edited 4/18/14
I think people are being too binary, liking art films doesn't mean you don't like action flicks. They supply two fundamentally different experiences, and it's entirely possible for one person to enjoy both of them.

It's like the difference between hiking and bungee-jumping, sometimes you even get to do both on the same trip.

Personally I'd like people to continue to enjoy whatever it is that they enjoy, but I do wish more theory was common knowledge so we could have more interesting conversations about what we enjoy while we're enjoying it.

Pretty much all the "criticism" we have now is "Is it good/Is it bad?" review questions, which is like the absolute bare minimum. At its fullest criticism should help us better understand and appreciate something that's worth appreciating.


windsagio wrote:


TrueGoober wrote:

Haters are annoying enough as is. A movement like this would bring more hate and less love.

I think anime fans can discern when anime is trying to be high art and when it isn't. I wouldn't want to treat every anime like high art. That would make my hobby no more fun than English Literature class.

You didn't find English Lit fun? PHILISITINE!

(I kid, of course. It really is no good to suck all the air out of every subject.)
I was going to ask if I was the only one who thought that was one of the funnest courses available in college.
xxJing 
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30 / M / Duckburg
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Posted 4/18/14 , edited 4/18/14
I and others criticize anime as it is, and people absolutely despise us for it, by people I mean other less critical anime fans.
I have learned that anime fandom is the land of lollipops and sugarplums, and if you try to hold it to any standard, you will get eaten alive by rabid fanboys/fangirls.

It seems the philosophy of the majority is to avoid confrontation at all costs. This is the friggin internet, put on some thick skin and learn from your enemies, embrace the opinions of others even if they may go against your own opinions. Just because Frank says that Code Geass sucks doesn't mean that he has sodomized your mother and sold your sister into slavery. It means he has an opposing opinion.

I have only once ever met anyone who was able to hate and respect my opinion at the same time. I will tell you, that wasn't an anime fan.
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32 / M / USA
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Posted 4/18/14
OP, have you ever been to an Anime convention? That will answer your question right there...
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34 / M / South of sanity.
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Posted 4/18/14 , edited 4/18/14

TrueGoober wrote:

Haters are annoying enough as is. A movement like this would bring more hate and less love.


The topic is about discerning snooty people, not about mindless ravening haters.


Hater:
SAO is like gary stu apocalypse cliche pooooooooooooooooooo!

Critical Snooty person:
SAO's characters lack development and the series as a whole gets bogged down by shoving too many loves interests at the main character instead of properly telling a that is worth hearing.


We could do with a lot more of the second, and a lot less of the first.

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26 / M / Alabama, US
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Posted 4/18/14 , edited 4/18/14
I'd like to see some sort of middle-ground, I guess. I think people need to be understanding of when a show/movie/book/whatever isn't trying to be anything more then dumb fun -- there's absolutely a place for that. There's a big audience for it, and sometimes it's nice to watch something that really doesn't ask anything more of you then to come along for the ride. Pacific Rim being a great example of that in the realm of movies, to be sure. I loved Pacific Rim.

But sure, encourage stuff with a bit more depth, stuff with a bit more artistic value or that takes a bigger investment personally to get into. Judge those works from that point of view, and judge the dumb fun stuff from that point of view. Anime is as artistically relevant as any other medium. I guess the important part, as far as I'm concerned, is recognizing what kind of show you're watching and what kind of criticism is actually relevant to that show.

One of my biggest problems with a lot of film critics is specifically that they come off as so pretentious and snooty -- even when it's clear that the point of a movie is to do nothing more then be dumb fun, they critique it as if it HAS to be something more then that. I don't want to see us heading in that direction.

I do think that right now it seems like most people approach anime much the same way that we approach video games (especially relevant comparison because games are going through kind of a similar existential crisis), in that they aren't really or shouldn't be a serious story telling medium. Or maybe it's not that they don't think it's appropriate, they just aren't familiar with shows that try to go in that direction and as a result are led to the conclusion that it's just dumb fun because that's all they know. It's hard to say, but sometimes it does feel like we don't do a very good job of treating the medium as any more then shallow entertainment, when it can absolutely be so much more. To some extent we should probably encourage more in-depth critique.

The problem is that will require people to take off their fanboy/girl goggles for a minute and consider that conflicting opinions can exist and it's okay if somebody doesn't like your favorite show. Discussion and discourse is a good thing as long as it remains civil.

Then again maybe a more important question to ask is if it even matters what we, as non-Japanese fans of anime, think about anime or how we go about criticizing it as an artform.

Lots of words saying very little, but there you go. That's my 2cents.

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Posted 4/18/14
I pay as much attention to anime critics as I do to film, music, and art critics.

Guess how much that is?
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41 / M / Oakland, CA
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Posted 4/18/14

Lambchopzin wrote:

Then again maybe a more important question to ask is if it even matters what we, as non-Japanese fans of anime, think about anime or how we go about criticizing it as an artform.

Lots of words saying very little, but there you go. That's my 2cents.



Well, we know from at least one creator that US streaming $$$ matters to whether a second season comes in (was mentioned by whatsisname in reference to Log Horizon), so it matters some.

More, it changes our own enjoyment and experiences of shows, although not automatically for the better.

And most of all it has an impact of what CR and Funi decide to simucast.

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26 / M / Alabama, US
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Posted 4/18/14 , edited 4/18/14

windsagio wrote:


Lambchopzin wrote:

Then again maybe a more important question to ask is if it even matters what we, as non-Japanese fans of anime, think about anime or how we go about criticizing it as an artform.

Lots of words saying very little, but there you go. That's my 2cents.



Well, we know from at least one creator that US streaming $$$ matters to whether a second season comes in (was mentioned by whatsisname in reference to Log Horizon), so it matters some.

More, it changes our own enjoyment and experiences of shows, although not automatically for the better.

And most of all it has an impact of what CR and Funi decide to simucast.



Good points. I think for me personally the bolded bit is probably the most important one, because you're absolutely right. Even if I'm not actively involved in all of the discussions about shows I'm watching, it definitely has an impact on my enjoyment of the show, because at the very least I'm always reading them. Usually for the better, although when discussions turn into flamewars it tends to have the opposite effect.
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28 / M / USA! USA! USA!
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Posted 4/18/14
Absolutely.

Someone wrote how Japan is making anime for the domestic audience, and that is precisely why global anime fans need to have higher standards. Because the domestic anime market has become increasingly defined by otaku: they are the domestic market.

So the big anime boom of the 90s and early 00s' in America and elsewhere was sort of a catch-up to Japan; a lot of shows that were picked up for syndication were already completed in Japan and no longer regularly broadcasted. Just as the rest of the world was starting to say, "Hey, this anime thing is kinda cool, what else do ya got Japan?", the country of origin started producing shows aimed at the otaku audience, and these shows did not appeal to the rest of the world, so the rest of the world shrugged and found other hobbies.

The anime studios and producers didn't know how to properly monetize their foreign fanbase, because they were both completely focused on the domestic market and because of historically not knowing how to even monetize the foreign market to begin with: and thus when they could have capitalized on turning anime (and their companies) into global players, they:

1. Simply did not know how.

2. Had no inclination to (because they were beginning to learn how to ring otaku dry)

3. Needed partners overseas willing to advocate for anime (and networks over here in the US had their own share of problems and prejudices regarding what they thought would sell, and what their partners like Hasboro would be willing to help fund....and without going too far off into American network fiascoes, this is around when the FCC made fundamental changes to broadcasting regulations).


What we as fans need to do is find a way to make companies realize they can sell things that aren't full of lolis and panty shots. It's not unprecedented (like with the Big O and other series getting new seasons based on foreign fanbases), and Space Dandy shows that the collective of American fans might be equal in purchasing power and marketing power to domestic otaku (more fans but with less money equal to or greater than less otaku but with more money).
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41 / M / Oakland, CA
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Posted 4/18/14 , edited 4/18/14
Honestly what started this thread for me was a side effect of the 2014 battle.

2 of the best shows of the year, and it's not that people didn't like them, it's that they hadn't seen them and hadn't seen any discussion of them.

(edited down, it's friday beer day at work)
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25 / M / Inside Lorreen's...
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Posted 4/18/14

PretearHimeno wrote:

I don't know about you guys, but I prefer to watch all my anime while wearing a monocle.


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