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Should Anime fans be snootier?
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Posted 4/18/14

kdroberts wrote:


windsagio wrote:

"Can we treat this stuff as if it were written by adults while at the same time not sucking all the fun out of it?"


You sound like an old person, m8.


God, tell me about it.
Six_10 
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Posted 4/19/14
I don't think that anime fans should be snootier.

But this topic should have been posted on the Premium section of the forums. Now all of the rabble-rousing proles can pollute the opinion of us True Anime Fans!
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Posted 4/19/14
With anime being a less funded market and it being so difficult to get licenses for it we should just be happy to watch it. I'm completely dumb founded when someone says there is an anime that they hate. I have watched a ton of anime and I have loved every minute of every episode of every series I have watched. I treasure every second I get to watch anime its such a luxury that I would be lost without. Everyone who has ever watched it with me says that its weird to see me a 22 year old male cheesing for hours watching any anime even if it's just Naruto fillers. So imo we should love every minute that was get to watch anime its simply Gold.
Posted 4/19/14
Should start with the manga/LN fans... since they're the ones who indirectly and ultimately decide what gets made into anime or not.



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Posted 4/19/14 , edited 4/19/14
Do pretentious hipsters watch anime?

I think my understanding what they seem to be mimicking in cargo cult like fashion tends to repel them.

Just be honest, like what you like.

Save you mask for more serious business.
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Posted 4/19/14
If anything, we're the least snootiest.
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Posted 4/19/14
We can be snooty about west anime, since they were aimed at the west (which is probably why I love space dandy a lot. Lacks the crude anime troupes)
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Posted 4/19/14

BLACKOUTMK2 wrote:

Would it even make much impact? Most shows are made in Japan and aimed at the Japanese. It's niche enough as it is.


This is exactly what I was going to say.


Having such a small community already, I'm already annoyed by the people who think we're weirdos for liking anime and that anyone who likes it has pink/green hair, lacks a social life, talks about it all the time, can't be normal, etc. (I sat in a class freshman year, first week of school, that had a conversation about this saying those exact examples.. didn't exactly make me like high school right off the bat. :I). By the end of my junior year though (about a year ago) I decided that I didn't care what anyone thought of me, in respect to that, and will tell them about it if they ask about it, even though I actually really enjoy fashion, etc., so a lot of people don't know about my love of anime.

Anyways, there really isn't any reason to give people another reason to hate on us, anime lovers, is there?
It would just be a reason to spread more hate, rather than spread our love of the genre.
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Posted 4/19/14
A lot of people seem to equate slightly higher standards with hating. Is it a 'don't ruin this for me' kind of thing?
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Posted 4/19/14

windsagio wrote:

A lot of people seem to equate slightly higher standards with hating. Is it a 'don't ruin this for me' kind of thing?


Please elaborate more on what you mean by "higher standards." Who among us determines what the "high standards" are? Do these "high standards" apply equally to all fans or are they unique to the one who comes up with them?

It's fine for people to dislike certain elements in anime, and thus have a distaste for watching anime with those elements. However, when people say such and such is overrated AND tell others to check their enthusiasm or press others to admit all perceived flaws (like it is an anime confessional, lol), then I think that's problematic.

It's only when an individual's "high standard" is pushed on the community, and not merely expressed, that it becomes toxic. Debate, discussion, and analysis of shows is wonderful, but pushing an agenda is not. The standards of what makes for "good anime" will differ among fans. By all means explain why you think an anime is bad or good and give your reasoning, but in turn don't expect others to see it the same way or to use the same standards to evaluate the show. There's room for all views on an anime to coexist civilly and respectfully.

Not everyone likes the same things nor can we all agree on what makes a bad anime or characters. Some people love slice of life anime and look for the best in that genre, while others might want only sophisticated stories with mature characters. Neither is necessarily a "low standard" fan, and both likely have "high standards" for what they like within their preferred genre. I find the idea troubling that if you are not a fan of a certain type of storytelling, character studies, you have "lesser standards" than someone who prefers more "sophisticated" storytelling. I don't want a fandom based on hierarchy of classes of fans. I want a united fandom not a divided one.


The thing I've seen over and over is that we as fans LOOOVE us our summer blockbusters and like to treat them the same as the character studies. In a sense we don't treat anime as art the way film buffs treat film as art, we're not nearly as demanding.

Now I'm not sure if the difference is a good thing or a bad thing, it would be wonderful if more people could enjoy something like Independence Day or Pacific Rim for what they were, but it's also a bad thing because there's no drive for more depth or insight.


I love Terminator 2 and thought that was both an excellent action film and a great character study. It was also a summer blockbuster. The idea of machines becoming sentient and even having feelings is something I find very compelling, and this movie did an excellent job of encapsulating those ideas in a fun action thrill ride. Who decides how meaningful these films are? Who determines how much drive for depth or insight someone has? I found T2 to be very moving AND intellectually stimulating. Who says it can't be both?

I find the idea it has to be either a hype fest or a character study to be a closed minded sentiment. Too many film critics operate from this notion that it has to be one or the other and that they can't coexist. The idea action/fast pace=bad and slow/talkative/different=good is totally subjective to the viewer and their personal preferences. I find I'm moved just as much from well rounded action flicks as I am from the slower character focused ones; assuming both are well executed. Neither way of telling a story is superior nor are the fans of either.
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Posted 4/19/14
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Posted 4/19/14


Interesting video, and thanks for sharing it, but I fail to see how Western videogame fans are relevant to Western anime fans being "snootier?"

I agree, contemplation of past anime and what worked well and did not work well is great, but the Western fans are not the ones who influence what the Japanese anime market produces (unless they are buying BDs/DVDs or other merch straight from Japan). Japan makes anime with the demands of the Japanese otaku in mind, not the West.

What we in the West get is a hand-me-down made originally for fans in Japan. If, overnight, all Western anime fans stopped watching anime, then Japan's strategy to cater to Japanese fans would not change. The trends in the anime market is dependent on the demands of Japanese otaku. Japanese anime fans are the ones who need to learn to be more demanding, not us in the Western world; we're blessed to even get our anime hand-me-downs as is. I'd agree with this for videogames, though, as Western gamers directly influence game trends.
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Posted 4/19/14 , edited 4/19/14

sonic720 wrote:



Interesting video, and thanks for sharing it, but I fail to see how Western videogame fans are relevant to Western anime fans being "snootier?"

I agree, contemplation of past anime and what worked well and did not work well is great, but the Western fans are not the ones who influence what the Japanese anime market produces (unless they are buying BDs/DVDs or other merch straight from Japan). Japan makes anime with the demands of the Japanese otaku in mind, not the West.

What we in the West get is a hand-me-down made originally for fans in Japan. If, overnight, all Western anime fans stopped watching anime, then Japan's strategy to cater to Japanese fans would not change. The trends in the anime market is dependent on the demands of Japanese otaku. Japanese anime fans are the ones who need to learn to be more demanding, not us in the Western world; we're blessed to even get our anime hand-me-downs as is. I'd agree with this for videogames, though, as Western gamers directly influence game trends.

That video covers a lot of ground, I was thinking mostly of the first half than the second. Windsagio already said he used the word "snootier" as a form of ironic self-depreciation. The point isn't that we should all become highbrow anime critics that loath the common rabble, just that becoming more skilled at appreciating media raises the ceiling on potential experiences. We can still enjoy the cheap thrills, but we can also recognize opportunities for deeper appreciation.

"Two are needed to play go", in other words.

The whole point being that we respond to an anime in kind with its presentation. If it's lighthearted fun, we can enjoy it. If there's a character study, we can understand it. If its a complex theoretical commentary, we can appreciate it. Being willing to engage with something on a deeper level does not diminish personal enjoyment, it broadens the range of things we can enjoy. We shouldn't do it to improve the industry, we should do it to improve ourselves and our discussions.

People act like you can only engage with media in one way, only if they only know how to engage with media in one way. But learning a new way is just a new, additional, toolset. And the more tools you've got, the more you can do.
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Posted 4/19/14
I don't think so. Anime fans are all different, and that's a good thing. One of the reasons why I watch anime is because it has variety. The only reason why there is so much variety in anime is because there is demand for it. If we all came together and decided what kind of anime every fan should be watching or what was "deep" or whatever, anime would become very boring very quickly.
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Posted 4/19/14

Insomnist wrote:


sonic720 wrote:



Interesting video, and thanks for sharing it, but I fail to see how Western videogame fans are relevant to Western anime fans being "snootier?"

I agree, contemplation of past anime and what worked well and did not work well is great, but the Western fans are not the ones who influence what the Japanese anime market produces (unless they are buying BDs/DVDs or other merch straight from Japan). Japan makes anime with the demands of the Japanese otaku in mind, not the West.

What we in the West get is a hand-me-down made originally for fans in Japan. If, overnight, all Western anime fans stopped watching anime, then Japan's strategy to cater to Japanese fans would not change. The trends in the anime market is dependent on the demands of Japanese otaku. Japanese anime fans are the ones who need to learn to be more demanding, not us in the Western world; we're blessed to even get our anime hand-me-downs as is. I'd agree with this for videogames, though, as Western gamers directly influence game trends.

That video covers a lot of ground, I was thinking mostly of the first half than the second. Windsagio already said he used the word "snootier" as a form of ironic self-depreciation. The point isn't that we should all become highbrow anime critics that loath the common rabble, just that becoming more skilled at appreciating media raises the ceiling on potential experiences. We can still enjoy the cheap thrills, but we can also recognize opportunities for deeper appreciation.

"Two are needed to play go", in other words.

The whole point being that we respond to an anime in kind with its presentation. If it's lighthearted fun, we can enjoy it. If there's a character study, we can understand it. If its a complex theoretical commentary, we can appreciate it. Being willing to engage with something on a deeper level does not diminish personal enjoyment, it broadens the range of things we can enjoy. We shouldn't do it to improve the industry, we should do it to improve ourselves and our discussions.

People act like you can only engage with media in one way, only if they only know how to engage with media in one way. But learning a new way is just a new, additional, toolset. And the more tools you've got, the more you can do.


Really well said, better than I've been able to get it across ><



The short diversion into games (from the video) makes me think of one of the other things that got me thinking this way. I'm fortunate enough to work in the game industry, and since we're in SF, at each GDC I go to the IGF/GDC game awards. If people don't know, the're in-industry arwards for the best indie and published games in a bunch of categories. Seeing what gets nominated and what wins is always really interesting... because it's almost never the top earner/hype games (papers please CLEANED UP, but that's a different story).

Traditionally, games are treated as anime, we want dumb fun and are kind of prejudiced against looking at them any other way. In the case of games that's changing massively, and it's had me on a trend of thought (since March) about how I'd love to see Anime break out of it's shell the same way.
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