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Is God real?
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Posted 4/24/14

Syndicaidramon wrote:


michaeldeska
but your are missing the big picture . god creates the universe, he creates life, he creates Adam then eve, he gave them free will, he made a tree he forbade them to eat from yet they did so because the snake tempted them. now the snake is not to be taken literally as a snake, but something within the mind. the snakes poisonous words were that of their own mind. you might be thinking "that doesn't make any sense" but it does.
if the reality god created was perfect from the start and only good then Eve would not have made the choice of biting the apple. even if a snake(or any other type of evil) was tempting her she would have prevailed over them. this is why i said god ALLOWED evil, its so we can experience freedom, life.


That makes NO sense. That contradicts his entire plan of having Adam and Eve live in a perfect world.
And if he didn't create the world perfect and only good, then that means God is STILL the one at fault, because he COULD have made the world perfect. But didn't.




michaeldeska
if we lived in a reality where evil did not exist, then good cannot exist at all because evil defines good. if we lived without evil then we have never seen what good is making something good unimaginable, so we would be living in a simply bland world, a world with no color , with no light, with no happiness. evil defines all those things, we see color because we see dark shades outlining them, we see light dispersing darkness, we are happy when we are not suffering.


So what you're saying is basicly that if no one in the entire world acted badly towards other people, no one could act nicely towards other people either, because the evil counter-possibility would no longer exist? Is that what you're saying?
That if people never had to suffer again, they wouldn't feel happiness either? Really?

If so, then you are, once again, discarding the concept of inherent morality. A concept that is central for any christian that attempts defending God.
You are ALSO saying that the world God made and intended for humans would be bland and boring -- which doesn't exactly speak well for your god.
AND you're saying that for our world to be good, evil HAD to be there, which indicates that God knew that, which indicates that he partook in introducing it. Which he did either way, because he created the devil.

Speaking of the devil -- if there was no snake tricking Eve, then where does the devil fit in.
And also, where do you get the idea that the snake wasn't a literal snake, but just something in Eve's head?


clearly i have some holes , tell you what. im going to do more studying on this matter and i will come back to explain myself.
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Posted 4/24/14

Syndicaidramon wrote:


michaeldeska
you must understand that we all have free will, people do things on their own accord for their reasons evil or good, for you or for themselves. yes the world is in chaos right now, people are fighting and people are dieing. people are ignoring the world because they fear the future. but you are given something that can change your life how ever you choose, free will. if you choose not to believe in god because you think he hasnt helped you enough then you have every right to do so. if you choose to believe in him and stand for what you believe in then you have every right to do so, choose anything and its yours Power , freedom , sin, happiness. you have any of it, but you chose not to believe and you will continue to be as miserable as you are now for the rest of your life, because you will always be blaming him for everything you cant do on your own, do something about it now i insist, but you have the right to ignore me.


I am absolutely speechless...


its not that he is miserable without believing god, he is miserable because he blames god for not helping him, read the whole sentence.
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Posted 4/24/14 , edited 4/24/14

michaeldeska
its not that he is miserable without believing god, he is miserable because he blames god for not helping him, read the whole sentence.


If he does not believe in God, then he won't blame God for anything...
But I'm glad you weren't trying to say what I thought you were saying...
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Posted 4/24/14
I don't believe in God because I don't need to blame all my failings on imaginary beasts.
Posted 4/24/14 , edited 12/10/14
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Posted 4/24/14

Shin-Nrl wrote:


michaeldeska wrote:



you must understand that we all have free will, people do things on their own accord for their reasons evil or good, for you or for themselves. yes the world is in chaos right now, people are fighting and people are dieing. people are ignoring the world because they fear the future. but you are given something that can change your life how ever you choose, free will. if you choose not to believe in god because you think he hasnt helped you enough then you have every right to do so. if you choose to believe in him and stand for what you believe in then you have every right to do so, choose anything and its yours Power , freedom , sin, happiness. you have any of it, but you chose not to believe and you will continue to be as miserable as you are now for the rest of your life, because you will always be blaming him for everything you cant do on your own, do something about it now i insist, but you have the right to ignore me.


Nobody is blaming him at all so I wont be miserable don't worry .I choose to live life as it is and not ask god for help.as there isn't any. and not ignore his existance as well .until one day maybe I feel like he is actually doing something to this world.and feel his power.


then live as you please, no one will stop you and i dont doubt that you will one day feel god as i do. got to love free will
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Posted 4/24/14
after reading genesis 1-3 i have learned that the source of all evil is created by fear, Adam and Eve were afraid of the serpent(not snake) a five headed big ass serpent , small Adam and Eve. ( i got the five headed serpent from revelations)

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Posted 4/24/14 , edited 4/24/14
Must be it. Couldn't possibly be the case that sometimes bad things happen to good people for no real reason.

This is the part I don't get about some religious people. They believe in this unflappable determinism and that things have to happen for a reason, with the implication that maybe if bad things happened to you, you earned it somehow. It's especially bad in America because of the calvinists that worked their way here.

You have a will. A free one that's supposedly been granted to you by your god. It's a better strategy to admit you can't explain why bad things happen sometimes and just help people when and where you can. There are plenty of Christians who already do it.
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Posted 4/25/14 , edited 4/25/14

michaeldeska wrote:

after reading genesis 1-3 i have learned that the source of all evil is created by fear, Adam and Eve were afraid of the serpent(not snake) a five headed big ass serpent , small Adam and Eve. ( i got the five headed serpent from revelations)



...

A five headed serpent and fear create all the evil in the world? Are you for real? I mean, seriously, is that actually what you believe to be objectively true? And you believe things like earthquakes are because humans were scared of a snake?? (Do you actually believe humans were around to witness the creation of the world?! Is adam and eve allegorical to you or do you take that to be the earth's actual history?)

How? How can *anyone* hold views like this in the modern world?

It baffles my mind.
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Posted 4/25/14

michaeldeska wrote:

after reading genesis 1-3 i have learned that the source of all evil is created by fear, Adam and Eve were afraid of the serpent(not snake) a five headed big ass serpent , small Adam and Eve. ( i got the five headed serpent from revelations)



That seems like a very good fairy tail you are talking about.
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Posted 4/25/14

SilvaZoldyck wrote:


michaeldeska wrote:

after reading genesis 1-3 i have learned that the source of all evil is created by fear, Adam and Eve were afraid of the serpent(not snake) a five headed big ass serpent , small Adam and Eve. ( i got the five headed serpent from revelations)



...

A five headed serpent and fear create all the evil in the world? Are you for real? I mean, seriously, is that actually what you believe to be objectively true? And you believe things like earthquakes are because humans were scared of a snake?? (Do you actually believe humans were around to witness the creation of the world?! Is adam and eve allegorical to you or do you take that to be the earth's actual history?)

How? How can *anyone* hold views like this in the modern world?

It baffles my mind.


you missed the point, a giant serpent with five fucking heads tempted Adam and eve because they feared the serpent so they ate from the tree of knowlege of good and evil. thus fear is the source of all evil, someone wants to be powerful over others because he is afraid of being weak, a man lies because he is afraid of the truth, a man disobeys because he fears the rules....you see where im getting at?

a serpent and a snake are two COMPLETELY DIFFERENT THINGS. as far as i know earthquakes are not caused by evil but of shifting plates
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Posted 4/25/14

crazykl45 wrote:

Must be it. Couldn't possibly be the case that sometimes bad things happen to good people for no real reason.

This is the part I don't get about some religious people. They believe in this unflappable determinism and that things have to happen for a reason, with the implication that maybe if bad things happened to you, you earned it somehow. It's especially bad in America because of the calvinists that worked their way here.

You have a will. A free one that's supposedly been granted to you by your god. It's a better strategy to admit you can't explain why bad things happen sometimes and just help people when and where you can. There are plenty of Christians who already do it.


your contradicting your self , if you believe we have a free will then people will do as they please, INCLUDING commiting crimes against the "good" people. i think that term is asinine, we ALL have a dark side and we ALL make mistakes (take my last few posts) the world was never ment to be perfect EVER. in genisis it says nothing of a perfect world but a newly created one.
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Posted 4/25/14 , edited 4/25/14

michaeldeska wrote:


crazykl45 wrote:

Must be it. Couldn't possibly be the case that sometimes bad things happen to good people for no real reason.

This is the part I don't get about some religious people. They believe in this unflappable determinism and that things have to happen for a reason, with the implication that maybe if bad things happened to you, you earned it somehow. It's especially bad in America because of the calvinists that worked their way here.

You have a will. A free one that's supposedly been granted to you by your god. It's a better strategy to admit you can't explain why bad things happen sometimes and just help people when and where you can. There are plenty of Christians who already do it.


your contradicting your self , if you believe we have a free will then people will do as they please, INCLUDING commiting crimes against the "good" people. i think that term is asinine, we ALL have a dark side and we ALL make mistakes (take my last few posts) the world was never ment to be perfect EVER. in genisis it says nothing of a perfect world but a newly created one.

It's been asked by others before, but I'll reiterate. What explains when a tornado levels someone's house? An earthquake does? A mudslide happens?

It's not just men that cause problems for people.
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Posted 4/25/14 , edited 4/25/14

crazykl45 wrote:


michaeldeska wrote:


crazykl45 wrote:

Must be it. Couldn't possibly be the case that sometimes bad things happen to good people for no real reason.

This is the part I don't get about some religious people. They believe in this unflappable determinism and that things have to happen for a reason, with the implication that maybe if bad things happened to you, you earned it somehow. It's especially bad in America because of the calvinists that worked their way here.

You have a will. A free one that's supposedly been granted to you by your god. It's a better strategy to admit you can't explain why bad things happen sometimes and just help people when and where you can. There are plenty of Christians who already do it.


your contradicting your self , if you believe we have a free will then people will do as they please, INCLUDING commiting crimes against the "good" people. i think that term is asinine, we ALL have a dark side and we ALL make mistakes (take my last few posts) the world was never ment to be perfect EVER. in genisis it says nothing of a perfect world but a newly created one.

It's been asked by others before, but I'll reiterate. What explains when a tornado levels someone's house? An earthquake does? A mudslide happens?

Those natural disasters are not properly attributed to the "evil of men" like you want to.


what the hell are you talking about? i never said that natural disasters are caused by humans, its absurd. and that has nothing to do of what im talking about
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Posted 4/25/14 , edited 4/25/14
Hold on just one second. You've avoided addressing a big point in your theology and seem to be side-stepping the issue.

Even if we all granted that "evil" existed because of men, you still can't explain away why bad things happen to good people sometimes. Earthquakes, floods, tornados, hurricanes. All of those have no men and no intention behind them. They're all bad things and have exactly the same result as the evil men cause, because they damage human life. But there's no way to attribute any of that to men. So by all accounts, those natural disasters should be attributed to God.

So, the point is, if God exists and is good and all evil is caused by men, then why do these bad things still happen to good people?
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