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Post Reply Jesus dying on the cross cannot be the most painful form of death....
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Posted 4/24/14 , edited 4/24/14
http://gods411.blogspot.com/2013/04/how-jesus-dies-for-you.html

I'm raised catholic but I can't make myself believe that Jesus suffered as much as they say he did, on the cross and before his death. I don't for a second believe he suffered more than everyone in the world. Prove me wrong?

(He was never raped, forced to give birth to the child conceived in rape, betrayed by his own mother and father and stoned to death by them as a result of rape that he was blamed for etc, he never starved, was sold as a sex slave, abused and hated by his own parents, he never had periods and never gave birth and never gave birth to a still born, I can think of a million things worse than what he went through and I think it's disrespectful to say that he suffered more and to tell people who have gone through worse that their pain is immeasurable to that of Jesus, because I don't think Jesus suffered more than so many people have and do suffer everyday. Even animals suffer more. I've been blessed that I haven't suffered so much, but to say there isn't worse to life than being betrayed by a friend and by strangers and dying on the cross? I think that's ridiculous. And disrespectful to the people who face real pain everyday. There are many things much worse than what he went through.)

Anyways, please prove me wrong, I'm open minded.
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Posted 4/24/14 , edited 4/24/14
There's a few pictures floating around the net of a Saudi man (I think) being crucified. It's pretty gruesome. The guy was swollen like his heart was about to explode. If you're unconvinced, google it and have a look. Prepare yourself though before you do.

That being said, I don't buy the whole died for your sins stuff. But if crucifixion was a part of it, it was pretty bad.
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Posted 4/24/14
Wouldn't that old torture method of getting rats to eat the persons organs be more painful.
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Posted 4/24/14

Aimpie wrote:

http://gods411.blogspot.com/2013/04/how-jesus-dies-for-you.html

I'm raised catholic but I can't make myself believe that Jesus suffered as much as they say he did, on the cross and before his death. I don't for a second believe he suffered more than everyone in the world. Prove me wrong?

(He was never raped, forced to give birth to the child conceived in rape, betrayed by his own mother and father and stoned to death by them as a result of rape that he was blamed for etc, he never starved, was sold as a sex slave, abused and hated by his own parents, he never had periods and never gave birth and never gave birth to a still born, I can think of a million things worse than what he went through and I think it's disrespectful to say that he suffered more and to tell people who have gone through worse that their pain is immeasurable to that of Jesus, because I don't think Jesus suffered more than so many people have and do suffer everyday. Even animals suffer more. I've been blessed that I haven't suffered so much, but to say there isn't worse to life than being betrayed by a friend and by strangers and dying on the cross? I think that's ridiculous. And disrespectful to the people who face real pain everyday. There are many things much worse than what he went through.)

Anyways, please prove me wrong, I'm open minded.


I was also raised as a Catholic, but I don't believe some of the things the bible says.
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Posted 4/24/14 , edited 11/3/16
Hear is something I Pulled up on wiki, oh and don't forget he fasted 30 days at which point he would be staving so he did feel that.

While a crucifixion was an execution, it was also a humiliation, by making the condemned as vulnerable as possible. Artists have traditionally depicted the figure on a cross with a loin cloth or a covering of the genitals. Writings by Seneca the Younger state some victims suffered a stick forced upwards through their groin.[17][18] Despite its frequent use by the Romans, the horrors of crucifixion did not escape mention by some of their eminent orators. Cicero for example, described crucifixion as "a most cruel and disgusting punishment",[19] and suggested that "the very mention of the cross should be far removed not only from a Roman citizen's body, but from his mind, his eyes, his ears."[20]

Frequently, the legs of the person executed were broken or shattered with an iron club, an act called crurifragium, which was also frequently applied without crucifixion to slaves.[21] This act hastened the death of the person but was also meant to deter those who observed the crucifixion from committing offenses.[21]


"The length of time required to reach death could range from hours to days depending on method, the victim's health, and the environment. A literature review by Maslen and Mitchell[41] identified scholarly support for several possible causes of death: cardiac rupture,[42] heart failure,[43] hypovolemic shock,[44] acidosis,[45] asphyxia,[46] arrhythmia,[47] and pulmonary embolism.[48] Death could result from any combination of those factors or from other causes, including sepsis following infection due to the wounds caused by the nails or by the scourging that often preceded crucifixion, eventual dehydration, or animal predation.[49][50]

A theory attributed to Pierre Barbet holds that, when the whole body weight was supported by the stretched arms, the typical cause of death was asphyxiation.[51] He wrote that the condemned would have severe difficulty inhaling, due to hyper-expansion of the chest muscles and lungs. The condemned would therefore have to draw himself up by his arms, leading to exhaustion, or have his feet supported by tying or by a wood block. When no longer able to lift himself, the condemned would die within a few minutes. Some scholars, including Frederick Zugibe, posit other causes of death. Zugibe suspended test subjects with their arms at 60° to 70° from the vertical. The test subjects had no difficulty breathing during experiments, but did suffer rapidly increasing pain,[52][53] which is consistent with the Roman use of crucifixion to achieve a prolonged, agonizing death." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crucifixion

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Posted 4/24/14
Well let's say that dying on the cross is in fact the worst pain possible (I doubt it but let's just say it is)
Lots of other people went through it too....so why would HIS death on the cross be more painful than everyone else's??
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Posted 4/24/14
oh and I don't believe the bible says he had the most painful of deaths, Its just modern Christians adding things that don't belong
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Posted 4/24/14


I'm not a torture expert in the slightest, this was really interesting, I don't know anything about torture. But I'm sure there are more painful ways to die....does anyone know of any?
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Posted 4/24/14
Ok that makes a big difference,
So let's say I still want to be catholic, it's not like a horrible thing that I don't think he had the worst death? Like they won't tell me I'm going to hell for thinking that lol will they?
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Posted 4/24/14
na, It's perfectly reasonable thing to think. Acts 16:30-31 ...“Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” They replied, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved...” That's all you really need to know as far as being a Christian goes. I would say question everything and decide for your self. Only you decide on what you believe to be true.
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Posted 4/24/14

You're awesome
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Posted 4/25/14 , edited 4/29/15
First, the physical was discussed earlier - but remember this about the story of Jesus' life. Before He was nailed to the cross, He was beaten severely and given lashings. Also, while on the cross, Christ rejected attempts to give Him painkillers (Matthew 27:34)

That said, the theological reason people say Christ's death on the cross was so painful was not merely the physical, but spiritual component to His death. Christ not only bore the torture of crucifixion (as noted above is absolutely horrific), but according to Christian doctrine, He bore the sins of mankind. This spiritual pain was added on top of the physical pain, making His death that much worse. During the time of His death, darkness befell the earth (Luke 23:44-45) as the sins of all mankind were laid bare on Christ. This is what Christians believe & why they believe His death is the worst in all history.
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Posted 4/25/14 , edited 11/3/16

mdmrn wrote:

First, the physical was discussed earlier - but remember this about the story of Jesus' life. Before He was nailed to the cross, He was beaten severely and given lashings. Also, while on the cross, Christ rejected attempts to give Him painkillers (Matthew 27:34)

That said, the theological reason people say Christ's death on the cross was so painful was not merely the physical, but spiritual component to His death. Christ not only bore the torture of crucifixion (as noted above is absolutely horrific), but according to Christian doctrine, He bore the sins of mankind. This spiritual pain was added on top of the physical pain, making His death that much worse. During the time of His death, darkness befell the earth (Luke 23:44-45) as the sins of all mankind were laid bare on Christ. This is what Christians believe & why they believe His death is the worst in all history.


Right. If a sinner is to suffer eternity in Hell for his sins, and Christ paid that in full, then the logical conclusion is that he was suffering an eternity of hell for every sinner He would draw unto Himself in saving grace. So he experienced the full pain of hell while being tormented on the cross. Not only that, but the separation from the Father, with Whom He had access all His life would be unbearable. It was at that moment that He gave up His spirit.
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Posted 4/25/14
My greatest fear is being immobilized and being eaten alive...
... that would be 1000000000000x more painful that crucifixion..

P.S.
Just imagine the thoughts of fork and knife piercing your flesh while you watch yourself being eaten...
...
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Posted 4/25/14 , edited 11/3/16
I was also raised catholic but not once have I heard that Jesus' death was the most painful in history or even at the time

However there are a few facts
1) The Jewish people at the time had two main forms of execution a) stoning b) crucifixion
Both of these because of Roman rule forced them to get 'permission' from the Romans
2) Crucifixion was used because it was at the time one of the most painful but also the most humiliating forms of death that could be given at the time
I'm fairly certain someone already pointed this out but you know that towel that Jesus is usually pictured with? Historically that probably wasn't there, he would have been hanging naked for hours the only reason that depiction is used is people don't want genitals hanging on display in places of worship.
3) In the time the wrist and hands were considered the same part of the body, it is more likely that Jesus was hung by his wrists, the nerves in the wrist being highly sensitive would have cause enormous pain.
4) he wasn't only crucified he was scourged, and reportedly those wounds were allowed to heal and then ripped open again
5) Also haven't people said that suffocation is one of the most painful ways to die? Well fun fact, that's what crucifixion is, it is not the nails or the scourging that would kill a person it is the fact that their body all collapses on the lungs.
That is why in the bible it says that the legs of the other two crucified with him were broken, it forced their deaths to come faster

Again not one time have have I heard anyone say that Jesus suffered the most in history, but he certainly suffered, and for the time especially he suffered greatly

Oh and lastly, one of the points of his suffering is that he was pure and should not have had to suffer
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