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Post Reply Jesus dying on the cross cannot be the most painful form of death....
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Posted 4/29/15

Aimpie wrote:
I'm not a torture expert in the slightest, this was really interesting, I don't know anything about torture. But I'm sure there are more painful ways to die....does anyone know of any?


I heard that the chemical mix they use for the death penalty can get pretty painful when it goes wrong.
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Posted 4/29/15

Aimpie wrote:

http://gods411.blogspot.com/2013/04/how-jesus-dies-for-you.html

I'm raised catholic but I can't make myself believe that Jesus suffered as much as they say he did, on the cross and before his death. I don't for a second believe he suffered more than everyone in the world. Prove me wrong?

(He was never raped, forced to give birth to the child conceived in rape, betrayed by his own mother and father and stoned to death by them as a result of rape that he was blamed for etc, he never starved, was sold as a sex slave, abused and hated by his own parents, he never had periods and never gave birth and never gave birth to a still born, I can think of a million things worse than what he went through and I think it's disrespectful to say that he suffered more and to tell people who have gone through worse that their pain is immeasurable to that of Jesus, because I don't think Jesus suffered more than so many people have and do suffer everyday. Even animals suffer more. I've been blessed that I haven't suffered so much, but to say there isn't worse to life than being betrayed by a friend and by strangers and dying on the cross? I think that's ridiculous. And disrespectful to the people who face real pain everyday. There are many things much worse than what he went through.)

Anyways, please prove me wrong, I'm open minded.


Wait....is it a catholic doctrine that Jesus suffered MORE than anyone else ever? Because the Bible doesn't claim that.
dsjb 
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Posted 4/29/15 , edited 4/29/15
Did someone just decide this thread needed a anniversary bump? WHY?
Posted 4/29/15 , edited 4/29/15
I really like this quote and I think it's relevant to this subject:


Just because someone suffers differently than you does not mean they suffer any less


Maybe Jesus' suffering is not physical but emotional. He is described as our Father and he became a lesser being to walk among his creation for our sake and seeing his sons and daughters suffering probably caused him a lot of pain.

Physically and mentally, he suffered humiliation- betrayal- torture and he did nothing wrong to gain such behavior from the people who did all these things to him(the Pharisees! they were like the religious leaders from that time, oh the irony.)

The Bible says that God has planned everything before the Universe was created. It is like a covenant that he can't break, that's why he can't change things and everything must come to pass. Why? it is easy for me to judge, insult and assume but in the end, no one knows and it is not my place to talk that way about God.

Also, the Bible never mentions that he had the worst death or suffered the most. His death had a purpose and that was the point.

Posted 4/29/15

dsjb wrote:

Did someone just decide this thread needed a anniversary bump? WHY?


I don't know but I think it was a bad idea....
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Posted 4/29/15

Serene86 wrote:

oh and I don't believe the bible says he had the most painful of deaths, Its just modern Christians adding things that don't belong


Exactly. Some denominations like to v quantity during.
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Posted 4/29/15

Ssomething wrote:

I really like this quote and I think it's relevant to this subject:


Just because someone suffers differently than you does not they suffer any less

That is an excellent quote. Thanks for posting it.
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Posted 4/29/15 , edited 4/29/15

SquallFire However there are a few facts
1) The Jewish people at the time had two main forms of execution a) stoning b) crucifixion
Both of these because of Roman rule forced them to get 'permission' from the Romans
2) Crucifixion was used because it was at the time one of the most painful but also the most humiliating forms of death that could be given at the time
5) Also haven't people said that suffocation is one of the most painful ways to die? Well fun fact, that's what crucifixion is, it is not the nails or the scourging that would kill a person it is the fact that their body all collapses on the lungs.
Oh and lastly, one of the points of his suffering is that he was pure and should not have had to suffer


Also, while the Catholic church's cross shows a beaten-to-a-pulp Jesus on it as its main icon, the Protestant church traditionally shows an empty cross (maybe with the abandoned towel), as the main theological point is that He isn't on it ANY MORE.

Which sort of emphasizes the main difference between the two denominations, that one stays rooted in guilt, and the other moves on to proactive optimism.
(Also, that much of the anti-Semitism rooted in the ancient Catholic church, dating back to the Book of John, seems to treat the crucifixion as if it was some sort of crime that shouldn't have been allowed to happen, and like all "crime" victims, the search to find some meaning and guilty parties to get out of it to move on. I believe we have plenty of His own words about whether or not it was "supposed" to happen, thank you.)
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Posted 4/29/15
But many were amazed when they saw him. His face was so disfigured he seemed hardly human, and from his appearance, one would scarcely know he was a man. Isaiah 52:14
Posted 4/29/15 , edited 4/29/15

Hairbelly wrote:


Ssomething wrote:

I really like this quote and I think it's relevant to this subject:


Just because someone suffers differently than you does not mean they suffer any less

That is an excellent quote. Thanks for posting it.


You're welcome.

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Posted 4/29/15 , edited 4/29/15
I seen a documentary once about this guy named Vlad I think, he impailed giant spikes in the ground and shoved people on top of them (through their ass) then left them to die lmao. He done this to many, many people, the fields were filled with spikes and intimated his enemies. That is what you call pain.
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Posted 4/29/15 , edited 4/29/15

Here is the Church teaching on the suffering of the Lord
http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p122a4p2.htm
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Posted 4/29/15

DanteVSTheWorld wrote:

I seen a documentary once about this guy named Vlad I think, he impailed giant spikes in the ground and shoved people on top of them (through their ass) then left them to die lmao. He done this to many, many people, the fields were filled with spikes and intimated his enemies. That is what you call pain.


Medically impalement and crucifixion are two very separate things.
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Posted 4/29/15 , edited 4/29/15
I dont really think you can quantify one death being more painful than another or say this is objectively the most painful death. That being said cruxifiction is a pretty painful way to go. Nails through wrists, lung collapses through your chest, dying of suffocation. It was probably the most physically painful form of death the Roman Empire could give at the time. Im not a Catholic anymore(im agnostic) but religions of all kinds fascinate me and there is alot of symbolic power in the fact that someone would voluntarily suffer through the most painful method of execution the Romans practiced at the time.
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Posted 4/29/15 , edited 4/29/15
If some Christians believe that Jesus suffered more than any other person has in this world, well, I don't believe that and I say that is untrue.

However, make no mistake, Jesus suffered very much with the crucifixion. There was the crown of thorns, which were pretty big thorns, and people were pressing and mashing the thorns into his head and temples. He received many lashes, which made him bleed, and they also beat him. He had to carry his cross up a small mountain to the place he would hang on the cross. He could barely lift it and carry it and slowly carried it to where he needed to, and it was a struggle to transport it. His cross was very heavy. Plus, he got beat and kicked in the process of trying to transport it. Also, he got very large splinters on parts of his body.

They nailed him to the cross, with large metal nails going through his hands and feet, breaking and crushing bones in the process. They took a spear and pierced his abdomen, giving him an open wound where some of his organs were exposed. Furthermore, his legs were bashed and broken. They did this so that as he hung, he couldn't use his legs to support his weight as he hanged on the cross. The only thing supporting the whole weight of his body was his arms. Imagine how painful it'd be for your arms to support the weight of your entire body for two to three days. I think Jesus lived for a while on the cross. I think it was three days of agony.

Furthermore, a part of the crucifixion process, because of the way the upper body was positioned and made to support all that weight, it made it so that victims had a hard time breathing. They go through all that agony and they can barely draw breath. IIRC, if people didn't die from the pain, trauma, or dehydration, they would gradually and painfully suffocate to death. On top of that, there was the thirst and dehydration going on while all that pain and suffering was going on.

Furthermore, Jesus also had to experience humiliation, to be so abused and have all that scorn, with people hating him, mocking him, insulting him, spitting on him, and again, beating him, when he was chained and walking through the streets and carrying his cross. Also, not everyone who was crucified suffered all these things. They were especially cruel to Jesus. Things like the crown of thorns, being beaten in the streets, carrying his own cross, the large amount of hate and scorn, I believe none of those were typical of crucifixion.

So yeah, Jesus suffered very much with what he went through when the Romans executed him.
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